F2P,Certs, and you

How about $0.50 - $2.00 for the weapon and about a couple hours to unlock? That'd be more in line with the competition. And then if someone really likes the weapon (and game) they will pay for cosmetic items to deck out their gun/gear/etc. And then they tell their friends and bring more people into the game, who also spend money.

More people will make SOE more money, even if the average player is spending less. Players bring in more players, who bring in more players. Players with negative impressions walk away from the game, their friends walk away too (or never try in the first place) with poor word-of-mouth, resulting in emptying servers, causing more players to leave.

That is another issue, that is something that is just broken and should not have been in the cash shop. On the other hand, it is not needed to play the game. It might be if you see yourself as a pilot and don't care about the rest of the game, but if you are on the ground than it doesn't matter if you have rocket pods yourself or not. The only reason you want them is to own everyone else, which is why everyone says they should get rid of them. Making them so affordable that every would have them by now would have just made everyone quit the game already.

But I'll go along with what I think was your idea there and point out that there are going to be dozens of these 'must haves' and if they are made so affordable that everyone who has to have everything the other guy has can have them in a week, then what was the point in the cert system?

Now maybe the problem is that it is not 'fair' people willing to spend money can get them right away? Well that is another topic about 'paying to skip ahead' and I'm not really jealous of people who have the cash and doubt most people are either. Someone picking this game up six months or so from now is going to be even at a bigger disadvantage I guess, so what's the answer? It sounds like not only will people quit right now, but no one new is going to play. Really, what is the solution that still let's SOE make money if no one wants to play a game where they can ever be behind others in progression of character options?

The point is that the grind comes off as unreasonable to Free Players, so that they don't even want to bother, and walk away. And that is killing the game.

Even if you tripled Cert gain from where it is now, it would still take thousands of hours for the average player to unlock everything. And that assumes no new content added later. And the average player will never put in that much time, no matter how much they like the game. There will always be more to unlock, but faster cert gain means that players have more options and more fun, sooner.

Yeah the low margin/high volume model is the way to go but that is a frightening proposition for companies since it is next to impossible to go back if it doesn't work. Meanwhile I guess they'll keep trying the high margin/low volume approach until they have no choice but to change and by the looks of things that may not be much longer.

And that's where you are wrong. By having a difficult goal to work towards, SOE will keep people playing the game longer than if they gave everyone certs for free. If everyone had everything free (or really cheap), people would get bored quickly because there would be nothing 'new', nothing to look forward to.

If you look at the psychology of gaming and gambling, having distant and intermittent rewards are what "hook" people into playing. This is also why every other MMO F2P game has the same exact setup. Even the pay-by-the-month games don't give out things quickly or for free. Because, again, people get bored and stop playing.

Now I'm not saying I *like* grinding for new things, but it *does* keep me playing over an extended period of time.

Uh, its not really bad advice. 20 hours should be enough time to make $7 even at the worst pay grades on the planet. In fact you could probably "grind" real life for that unlock faster than in-game. But then you might lose that cushy unemployment revenue and have to grow up *sadface*

My idea is simple: This is a copy-paste from another post of mine. I haven't played in two days... I think I may be loosing my love interest to this game.



Premium Subscribers:
I am one of these people. I signed up for a one month subscription so I could give back to SOE for making a game I really enjoy. But with really the only benefit of XP gain (25%) and 500 station cash a month. I am not re-subscribing. There is not enough benefits. Oh I forgot, I get access to skins before other people (That I still have to pay for).

The way it is like this is because of the PS2 platform of F2P. So, if subscribers say got all the weapons in the game. People would cry foul of Pay to Win!!!!! Pay to Win!!!!! but in my view this game is practically pay to win with it's current system. As Angry Joe said in his review "[PS2] is really on that line of pay to win" because it would take soooo drastically long to even begin to get all the upgrades for one class.

Incoming Flamers! But here is my idea for subs.
Keep PS2 free to play with the ability to slowly unlock everything.
Keep station cash available for those free players to instantly unlock weapons.
For subscribers allow them to have access to all weapons. Still have to use certs to unlock upgrades for weapons, classes etc. The way I see it cert points should be used to "Spec" into classes and get goodies like optics camo etc... I understand that having all weapons may make you "more" powerful but as constantly argued a lot of weapons are side grades with varying small changes (as most are). With this option some of the guns deemed overly and factually OP may have to go. Or maybe the guns with real advantages are ONLY un-lockable by certs so free play and subscribers can both work toward getting them. Again just idea.

SOE your game is in an odd territory because it is based on F2P. I am honestly not sure if that is a good business strategy for a long playing game (Penny for a thought).. Look at GW2. 60 bucks and you are done. Full game. No surprises.

Back in beta, when they started to introduce some more weapons, there was a fourth resource, Auraxium, gained from control of major bases,. They might want to consider reverting the change - that system separated the cert grind from the weapon grind, so saving for a new gun did not stop you from unlocking all your certs. The problem with it was revealed as soon as Esamir came out - everyone deserted the lowest-pop continent to protect their auraxium flow. If we changed it to that auraxium was gained globally, at comparable rates to the current weapon cert grind, we'd have a system that made territory more important, maybe even the first hint of a defence incentive. Worth a try? Who knows.

This would be a good defensive incentive for me. (Mainly because getting Auraxiam would be a better incentive than a lackluster 15%. Still, I defend a biolab if we have one, because I think it gives a slow, passive health regeneration bonus.)

Side note: Honestly, I think that being able to trial cert upgrades and side-grades would be nice, but that's for a different thread.

I'd agree that could alleviate some of the frustration some people have. I'm not even thinking about unlocking guns anytime soon because I'm still trying to upgrade my class abilities and standard weapon. 1000 certs isn't much depending on how often you play and how effective you are at getting certs (it would take me quite a while lol) but that negative is that it is 1000 certs not being spent to actually upgrade your role for your side.

This thread should have just ended here. This guy gets it perfectly.

The ENTIRE point of the F2P model is that there are actual FREE PLAYERS in the game to provide content for all paying players. You have to make the free game enjoyable enough that people will actually just play for free. Yes, SOE is a business and they ideally want those free players to purchase something, but even if those players don't they are still contributing something to the success of the game.

It is very playable for free players. Now I do think it needs some changes, but it will never be playable for free for everyone unless it is so free no one sees any reason to pay. The question is where to set the slider.

This doesn't really make any sense. Firstly "playable" is not the same as "enjoyable." Secondly the game absolutely SHOULD be "playable for free for everyone" as you put it. The most important aspect of the F2P model is that the free game is enjoyable in and of itself in order to pull in new players and retain old ones. Free players shouldn't ever feel as though they're at a real disadvantage, otherwise they will simply leave.

This is easily one of the fairest F2P games i've ever played.

The only thing i feel is a little pay2win is ESF/Lib weapons... but its not pay2win as you can unlock it by playing.

How about you dont be a vehicle ***** and play a bit of infantry, for a few weeks. Learn the game as a footsoldier, then progress to the skies.

Yeah also there is the mindset that when people play they want to be rewarded with something tangible in a reasonable time-frame. I know, I know people will say they should just be playing for the fun of it. Well maybe, but for MANY that is only part of the equation. With no real win condition and meta-game (for now) what else is there to do but grind XP for certs for shop items. Well when the goodies are so far out of reach with their short play sessions, it seems impossible to get a feeling of receiving a treat for the effort. Thus they leave.

Because you haven't given free players any reason to stick around. They feel that the game is a punishing chore, they dont have options, and they will take their time (and possibly their money) and find a fairer Free-to-Play game that offers them better value and more satisfaction. Which is a big part of why PS2 is losing so many players so quickly and the servers are emptying.

Also, the "you can unlock by playing" argument would still apply even if they cost a million certs to unlock. The point is that the grind is still seen as unreasonable by free players (and even many paying players).

Unlocking everything isn't the problem, it is unlocking anything.

If a new player notices that grounds units are being destroyed by air, he has the single MAX burster or a poor equipped ESF. Those are their choices. 1000 certs will get them a second burster, a heavy lock-on missle, skyguard, or ESF lock-on missles + some upgrades.

It is very easy to be convinced you are going nowhere fast when you don't have the tools to deal with a situation that you are aware of and won't have the tools anytime soon. Meanwhile you are being told that you just need to L2P.

All the items you listed could be unlocked with $15 come Friday.

So your saying the game isn't worth $15 to you?

You really missed my point though. So, tell me then, what is the system where SOE will make enough revenue to continue to support the game with significant updates while making sure no one feels there isn't anything they can't get quick enough for free? Because based on a lot what I see here, is a system where no one is spending any money because if some bad player like me can unlock everything in a matter of weeks, the people who take the game seriously enough to spend money on it, won't need to at all.

I'm willing to spend money on this game, but even I'm not willing to drop the $15 or whatever to become anti-air capable. That is not necessarily a F2P issue, it affects the game as a whole. Funny how it is the one thing people keep bringing up in threads like this because it seems to be an issue people bring up a lot in non-'payment model' threads too.

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be placed in a position where you have to pay for tools that should be accessible from the near start, otherwise you at at the mercy of that which you can not counter for the next 10-20 hours.
I'll pay for skins.
I'll pay for bling.
I'll pay for fuzzy dice for the interior of my cockpit.

I won't pay cash to gain access to something that feels as though it was intentionally placed out of reach to leave new players in a position to make them feel they are required to drop $7 on a single weapon for a single unit and currently on a single character. I also won't continue to play such a game when my friends start bailing because they see the time investment required to have even a remotely balanced mix of infantry, armor, and aircraft choices.

Pretty much. It feels as though it is withheld content that as a whole only strengthens the air is king concept.