F2P,Certs, and you

While I think there are some game balance issues that might be caused by the cert unlock system and the popularity of certain items purchasable with SC, I don't think the model is bad at all. There are plenty of meaningful upgrades that do not cost a lot of certs in order to give a feeling of progress every day. Maybe they could have given a choice between a couple default weapons, but playing with a default weapon is not putting someone at a disadvantage, playing with a default weapon with no certs spend on it is and so is playing a class with no certs spent on utilities and such is.

Any drastic change to cert gain or unlock costs will only cause the people who play more often, are better or just are willing to spend the money unlock more things much more faster. So for someone like me who probably struggles to make 20 certs an hour sometimes to be able to quickly afford a high priced unlock within a week or a day, you will have others unlocking 10 such items in that time.

If a free game is not fun enough for someone to put time into just because there is one 'uber cool gun' they can't get soon enough, I really question if they would stick around for long anyway. Whereas the person who is willing earn it through time or pay money is going to feel invested. It is a balancing act, but either way there will always be someone who doesn't like it.

I have payed lots of money on this game so far yet I totally agree with this. Pretty sure freebies out number the payin customers by a large amount; if free's left, the game would decrease in population at a large rate which is already starting to happen now. Games like TF2 and LoL get it right in this particular area; they are wildly successful b/c of that.

They absolutely MUST cater to the freebies. I'm not saying this because I'm a freebie (hint: I'm not. i'm dropping buku bucks on this), I'm saying this because PS2 is entirely and utterly community-population dependent. Without those freebies we will have nothing to shoot at, empty servers, empty continents, and no battles. Pandering to 1% Cat is not a good business model for a high-investment, low rate-of-return product like an online Video Game! It makes me question just who in the hell is running Sony's marketing division! Because whoever he or she is, they are completely clueless.

Without trying to use bad examples,


You're essentially starving your slave workers by gimping F2P players. Once they die, you won't get any of the nice things they made for you.

Now how exactly are they being gimped? I know people have given examples, but what would be yours?

The tricky part is that there is really know way for the game to make money other than donations that does not **** players who won't spend a cent on it. Even cosmetics can be seen a gimping because for many people that adds more to the enjoyment of the game than whether they have as many unlocks as the player with the subscription or who spent SC.

This is not some arena game with low development costs that will survive on people buying skins.

I think F2P's are being gimped by the moneygrab 1k cert upgrades to current weapons that keep being released. EG:

anchor is upgrade to GD-22S
LC3 is upgrade to LC2
Serpent is upgrade to VX6-7


I mean, realistically, are you going to grind 1k certs a few times to get some good weapons for all of your classes? I doubt it.

Exactly, which is why SOE needs to get with the program and give the cheapos something to throw 10-15 dollars at.

Look, this isn't really complicated. Most people don't drop 50-100 dollars on f2p or even p2w video games. If their return on their 10 dollar investment was worth it, they'd be MUCH more likely to spend that 10 dollars. Those types of people outnumber the "massive disposable income" crowd on an ASTRONOMICAL scale. Revenue goes up.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: It's all about Price Elasticity of Demand. Freemium video games are elastic products. VERY elastic products. You change the price just a little, and the quantity of demand changes by a factor of 100. End of story.

I feel that the cert rate gains for premium members should be drastically increased. Premium members should be able to reliably get enough certs within a reasonable amount of time to get the more expensive unlocks. Currently there isn't that huge of a boost for cert gains as a premium member. Seriously, if someone's paying 15$ a month, they shouldn't have to slave away at a game to unlock cool things.

I weep for this generation thinking they can get anything by just whining enough. Seriously. Learn 2 Job. A mod needs to close this thread, nothing constructive is coming out of it.

That's idiotic. I work 2 jobs and attend school. This is NOT my only source of entertainment, nor should it be expected to be my only source. The point of this thread isn't to whine (though there may be some present). The point is to explain why SOE's business model is a mistake and is going to fail if nothing changes in the near future.

You can sit on your high horse and tell everyone to get a job that gives them all disposable income to spend relatively massive amounts of cash on a video game, but the fact is not everyone can get a job, or even a job with that much disposable income and expect to attain a decent gaming experience from PS2 without sacrificing more important and REAL, TANGIBLE goods in their daily lives.

I expect your response now is going to be "Durrr, well if you can't afford it then don't play it". Yeah, it's that sort of elitist, ******* mentality that ***** over the rest of the world. This game is a low-level form of entertainment. It's something that should be easily accessible to everyone because: 1) It doesn't supply anything tangible, and 2) Its sale point is to a large market with low-income. By ostracizing #2 Sony is going to fail. Which is a HUGE pity because the premise of this game is a wonderful dream - certainly something myself and many others would love to see realized.

Furthermore, just because something can't be afforded doesn't mean people shouldn't have it. Second-hand vehicles may not be ABSOLUTELY necessary to a father of five who works two jobs to feed his family, but they sure as hell make his quality of life a lot more convenient and bearable. Just because something (aka - this game) is currently expensive, doesn't mean it deserves to be.

I weep for self-centered, insensitive pricks like you. If only because when times get hard for you, your own philosophy will come back and bite you in the ***. I pray you know that pain someday.

Times did get hard for me. Almost lost my house and everything. I got myself out by teaching myself my future job to better myself and get a well paying job (high level IT). I am not elitist. Far from it, if you are complaining about an in-game item that's $10 dollars then you are in a tough spot and need to get your head out of games.
Responsible Adult is responsible.

Well, when the servers are dead have fun.

I'm going to generalize one more time and say this: The majority of PS2 players are either high school students, college students, or fresh college graduates who do not have a stable career or income. Not everyone can get a high paying IT job like you did. Congratulations on your success, but not everyone has the opportunity to succeed in such a manner in the next 3-4 years (which is, realistically, the time frame SOE should be focusing on for their marketing goals).

My main point is this: This game is not a $60+/per year worthy game. In real terms, it should never be expected of ANYONE to have to pay $60 or more to fully enjoy this game. Most people who play this game have this same expectation I have and it's areasonable expectation given what you're paying to get. It is not an expectation that is even remotely close to being fulfilled by SOE because of obvious price gouging. That's my point.

Do I believe there are underlying societal issues that don't give individuals enough access to low-level forms of entertainment such as this? Yes, but that argument is perhaps best reserved for someplace else. I'm sorry for personally attacking you and for trying to make that argument here. This is not the place for such a discussion.

BUT, I do believe that if SOE wants to promote a game that we can all enjoy while still making enough money to turn a profit, they need to get their heads out of their ***es and recognize the reality presented to them by this economy and the clientele they SHOULD be pandering to, if they want to make a sale. Maybe it's just my multiple years of being in sales-related industries and positions, but price gouging is not an effective method of promoting sales in a pool of fickle consumers.

I do like your points and agree on some, I didn't mean to attack ya on some things too on giving a generalized, oversimple statement. It just ticks me off that great companies get smashed by; what I think; is stupid. This game is made to be both fun and turn a profit. Some people must have forgotten that behind all games, there are hungry mouths. I support what I think is fun and give accordingly. Sorry guys.

And I'm glad people like you exist who are willing to spend money on the game. Maybe it will keep it afloat just long enough for SOE to realize they f'ed up and fix these issues. I truly hope so, because I love the premise of this game and I genuinely want it to succeed.

Likewise, they have some great ideas for the future and hope it comes to fruition.

Just FYI to the "complainers" Triple Station Cash this Friday to alleviate some of your money woes!
Protip: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-Universal-15-Game-Card/19530504
Notice the extra 500...

and no it's not BS. Confirmed: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/when-is-the-next-triple-sc-day.68110/

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

The obvious examples are the Liberator and the ESF. There is not a single time I have ever heard or seen a paying player say "Hmm, this would be a good time to use the Extra Afterburner Fuel - I dont need A2A Missiles or Rocket Pods this time." Same with the Liberator, the Dalton and Zepher are so much better than the Shredder for every purpose - even fighting air units - they are practically required.

And even when a free player plays 50-100 hours and finally gets enough for his Rocket Pods, the paying player has earned more certs in this time (subscription bonus, more kills with a better weapon, etc.) and has spent them upgrading his Rocket Pods to have more ammo and thermal optics and all these other nice bonuses, so he still has a sizable advantage over the Free Guy. And that's just one vehicle/weapon.

This wouldn't be a big deal if the free player could level the playing field in 5-10 hours or an extra weekend of practice/playtime. But asking free players to spend hundreds or thousands of hours just to be on the same footing is punishing. Free players don't want to spend a hundred hours at a huge disadvantage or without many of the "fun" options available to them to try new things. And when they leave, their friends start to leave, and it becomes a player attrition until huge swaths of the playerbase have left.

You can whine about them being greedy or cheap or poor all you want, but the fact of the matter is that many free players hate this game and its business model. They have no reason to stick around and get bullied by paying players for hundreds of hours, and because their experience is so negatively tainted, they have no incentive to pay even if they ever do come into money down the road. The unlocks and upgrades are so far away, and there wont be an opportunity to actually use a new weapon or item for your class for weeks and weeks. Instead, they will just find a free game that treats them better (TF2, BL:R, DOTA2, LoL, etc) and have fun there. If they spend money, it will be on a game they like, not one that they've been conditioned to hate thanks to terrible business practice.

Meanwhile PS2 servers are emptying, battles are shrinking, and those of us who enjoy the game are worried and basically saying "I told you so." Like it or not, free players are the lifeblood of this game, and SOE decided to try to cut off circulation to see if it would get them to pay more. Instead, they just left.

I guess the problem is what you think is a reasonable expectation. Some people don't think anything should be locked by certs/SC or should be able to have enough certs in a week to unlock everything. What exactly is your reasonable expectation? What is it you cannot play this game without right now?

I asked a similar question that perspicacious answered with some new guns released that I guess are must haves, although from a quick search, and my understanding of the weapon system, or still just side-grades. While there are some changes they can make to get me to spend more money, that is quite different than this game not being worth playing for free.

I think I've spent about $70 on this game so far, and I don't regret it at all. But I also don't feel superior to the guys that are playing for free. Sure I have some other tricks in my bag like a NV scope on my rifle at night, but I still get smoked my default weapons and gear on a regular basis. I got the weapons and items because I like them and they seem to help me a bit, but I could easily be happy running around with default weapons and gear all the time, except maybe my Reaver which would feel kind of ineffective with just the default gun. I loved PS1, and I love PS2. As it evolves it will get more refined and get better, just like PS1 did.

What sense does it make to have "the grind" be so short that there is no incentive to pay?

"I could pay 7 dollars to skip ahead to that gun...or I could play for 30 minutes." - Who's gonna pay then?