[Suggestion] Thermal Optics (Possible Balance Changes)

I'm going to plow through this (some of us aren't members and have used up a lot of time to unlock these optics for most of our vehicles) --- REFUND THERMAL OPTICS --- removing infantry from being spotted is a huge change. Also for air balances, thermal use to be OP, then lock-on came along and balanced thermal optics along side AA Maxes. Now we can't see neither the MAX or the Heavy Assault locking-on to us. AND SERIOUSLY why wasn't the MAX included with the vehicles we are currently able to see -- MAX have the capability of shredding both armor and air.

** Balance Change Ideas **

* Decrease Thermal Optics Range to see infantry (gives infantry a fighting chance as the aircraft must get much closer and keeps thermal functioning similarly to original idea)

* IF YOU SHOULD KEEP THE CURRENT "BALANCE" allow thermal optics to see Max & Heavy Assault (MAX have the capability of shredding both armor and air -- lock on coming from random mountain locations from heavy Assaults looking to troll air pilots just isn't fun at all.) Because you've made changes to Thermal Optics, we should still receive a REFUND in case we are still dissatisfied with your "balance" decision; its not fair to those that have placed a lot of time earning certs only to have the function of a tool changed shortly after.

* Or simply revert back to the original Thermal Optics that everyone wants back.

I don't want it back. =P

Elvis said it pretty well "Return to sender!"

You actually have a good point there - it doesn't highlight MAXes and heavies despite being called "Threat detection"
And both MAXes and heavies can carry pretty threatening AA equipment.

But its good that it shows me that menacing flash, and highlights that blue glowing vanguard that I would have totally not seen otherwise.

EZ mode is dead... find some skils and kill stuff like everyone else.

Thermal optics sound like a cheat anyway. Like a mini-map radar hack.

But all other classes except infil can also carry C4 and engies have tank mines and Mana Turrets, so kinda back to square one with optics if every class that can threaten a tank is highlighted again (I know some people would support that).

Wrel said that changes are iterative so maybe the nerf will be relaxeda bit later on. As a totally wild guess I'd say the devs could have looked at kill rates of vehicle weapons versus infantry or something and decided to reverse the trend in some way.

As pointed out in the forums, no one has complained about thermals (I'm guessing because the kill screen doesn't reveal their use). So there must be some other reason they chose it for the nerf hammer.

I know real life comparisons are shaky but the fact is, visibility from inside a real tank is far worse than in a PS2 tank and aircraft move tons faster and don't get so near the ground as in PS2 (speaking from personal experience). So I think it is reasonable that vehicles in the game are better able to spot big ole' tanks and things than infantry now.

Or maybe you need to look up the word "iterative"

Like this, you mean?

Iterative design - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iterative_design

Iterative design is a design methodology based on a cyclic process of prototyping, testing, analyzing, and refining a product or process.

Inf is crazy OP tank killers now in close combat scenarios I just tried this for the first time, and lost 4 tanks in few minutes. I cant see them anymore, and c4 is OP on tanks as it is.. Now you can just run up to a tank and Bye bye. And yes MAX´s kill tanks quick too, and can hide away. Tanks are dead unless you are in open country. Sad.. Dont make changes for the changes sake. Ruins the game.

Personally I hate it. I'd have preferred it offered as a separate optic. Its rendered vehicle stealth pointless with the range buff making hornet air even more dangerous and frankly if you couldn't remove aircraft with the PLETHORA of AA options, you're doing something wrong.

Didn't even refund the bloody things, despite being COMPLETELY different from when I purchased it.

Ridiculous.

Either way, I don't see this as iterative design.
Prototype: On PTS
Testing: There was none
Analyzing: That what, less than 98% of all deaths are AI vehicle weapons?
Refining: Still no word besides "there are no plans for a refund".

This does not look like they were modifying it, it looks more like they wanted to shove it down people's throats.
I mean look at heavies, they were given an LMG hipfire nerf, then an overshield nerf, then an LMG damage range nerf.
None of it was instant, they looked at what heavies offered, took away what they supposedly offered too much of as their class.

This was "ok we nerfed AI weapons a ton, now we remove the optic completely because somehow it's still overperforming to us".

Yeah. So if the nerfing is iterative, it means the next round there will be more nerfs.
Otherwise, it's not iterative, just chaotic.

I think this is more how thermals should be, bottom left. In PS2 we had bottom right.


The temperature of the environment should not just be blue. Dark colored materials in the hot sun should get really hot. White materials or things in shadow should be much cooler. This would allow players to hide among hot objects. All I did in the picture was adding some filters.

Yeah.... but I'm guessing that one of these things is WAY easier to program than the other.... and I think you know which one I'm talking about!

Anyways, as much as I like the idea of "proper" thermals, I think the amount of programming required to give everything a temperature would be way excessive. I just can't see it being done. Especially if you then expect stuff to cool down overnight as well etc. Because I'm sure people will whine if it doesn't!

I gave things a temperature by converting the picture to a grayscale, then invert so dark becomes hot, then put a posterize layer, then tweak with a curve, then blur it all, and then put a gradient map on it. Cheap post processing effects. The thing that requires a little coding is that infantry and vehicles need their own lighting applied to them, just like how regular thermals worked.

The way PS2 thermals worked appeared to be by changing the lighting to a blue ambient light, turn off shadows, then put a strong yellow directional light at the players eyes that is coded to only illuminate players. Then apply a blur proportional to distance, at least to environment.

Huh.... that was pretty interesting. Didn't know it worked like that. Is all that post-processing able to be done once, to sort of set up a texture map, or is that sort of thing going to have to be done, on the fly, whenever you turn thermals on? If the latter, still sounds like it might be a bit of a headache for the poor hamsters!

I disagree.

My 200m scout radar is much, more effective than thermals.

The later. How would you "pre-render" something like contrast unless you're looking at a still picture?

What about white camos ? Would Esamir looks mostly blue ? Would the Hossin water be able to hide a planetman ? What happens at night ?