How is the Fracture & Vortex Balanced Against Ravens?

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Yepp but it takes 3 seconds to burst this damage... Reavens shooting one rocket in every 1,25 second ( 48 RPM) and their reloading time is insane, 1,5 second.
The hilarious is that the reloading speed is almost the same than the duration between two rounds and Reaven has the shortest reloading time among the AV MAX weapons.

in 9 sec Vortex does 3 full charge with 1875 Dmg..
In 9 sec Reaven shoots all 6 rockets, causes 3012 Dmg (7,5 sec) and finishes its reload...

I think Reaven needs a HUGE reloadtime nerf

I think a consensus has been reached...

I would be fine with the Raven keeping the laser guidance if their reload timer was lowered and the damage lowered to at least Fracture damage.

That's considering nothing will be changed to Fractures at all.

Honestly I would rather have the Fractures buffed by giving them some sort of mechanic to make getting consistent hits at long range easier(a coyote mechanic perhaps) than an having the Ravens or Vortexes nerfed.

forget fractures, the wobble makes them ineffective at the moment, but pounders are absolute monsters for both AI and AV up to medium range.

vortex- extreme range (less damage, highest range)
ravens- extreme accuracy (medium damage, modest range)
pounders- extreme damage. (highest damage, lowest range)

So, the same damage as Fractures even though Fractures can't hit anything that's moving beyond 100 meters while that's no problem for Ravens. That's just graceful, ain't it?

But let's see here. VS still have Comets and NC has Falcons, that both highest damage, lowest range. So that means TR has ONLY Pounders to deal with close range while both other factions can be effective at short and long range engagement?

Devs were working on buffing TR MAX ESAV at least according to a post by Higby twenty or so days ago. He doesn't know what happened to it after he left however. The main issue he mentioned, at least when talking about ESRLs, is that the balance designers were kneejerking at the ideas of making the asymmetrical characteristics of the weapons too prominent. So rather than doing the above, all the changes (nerfs) were set in place for ESAV/ESRLs.

fractures need a buff ok? everyone knows fractures need a buff! (personally all i think they need is the wobble removed so you can actually keep them on target, but it'd be cool if they got a velocity increase too)
still imho pounders are the ultimate max AV for those closer ranges, plus they're undoubtedly THE BEST AI max weapon

No, they are not.

why not? 3 shot kill, accuracy at ranges most other AI weps would need to pray to RNGsus to hit, massive splash damage.
their one and only downside is their ammo pool, but that is easily solved by sticking with an engi.
you lockdown a dual pounder max with an engie's ammo pack covering a doorway, nothing is getting through.

they really arent that good at AI, they are just the best AV weapon for AI. the pounders true strength is their close range AV DPS. I will take almost any AI max weapon over pounders in a heartbeat if i want to actually be efficient at killing infantry.

Probably because EVERY MAX AI weapon is better at AI than the pounder.

My problem with the Ravens really starts with how effective they are against players too.
Every fight against the NC is just constant whistling and knowledge that if there is any ground higher than you that there will be one of them waiting for you to break cover.

Vortexes have their whole surprise damage thing going on which is also OK but I don't see a lot of people picking them up when each one is just a slightly worse clone of the Lancer.

I don't have an opinion of Fractures because I don't think I die to them enough to.

thats where we differ then, i've had some truly epic moments with pounders, notably locking down doorways for the whole enemy team, they either die just trying to get near the door from the heavy splash damage, or they get their face pounded if they're lucky enough to survive the splash for long enough to step in the doorway.

Thanks for being cool-headed despite all these nerf QQ threads.

Let's start off by pointing out the giant elephant in the room: Fracture sucks. The game is not balanced in the fact that TR does not have a competitive long-range AV MAX weapon, and I hope DBG can fix that. That's coming from an NC player. But consider that the TR has access to Lockdown, which practically doubles the damage output of most MAX weapons. DBG has to balance the Fractures with that in mind.

The comparison to the Vortex is a little clearer. Ravens, as you said, have pinpoint accuracy. The catch here is that it's affected by recoil, which I feel that DBG increased somewhere. This however is a minor issue that only becomes apparent when you're shooting standing still aiming at a small target. That's nitpicking though.

The Vortex is famous for the no-drop, near-instantaneous damage blast. Compared to the Raven, it does much less damage, but arguably is competitive in terms of accuracy. I can't count how many times a target got away because Ravens have slow projectile velocity; Vortex can hit as long as the target is on screen. I guess that's the benefit of the Vortex.

Does it justify the damage deficit? I don't think so. Ravens can be used by solo players and deal enough damage to destroy an entire tank column, whereas Vortex and Lancer are best used in groups. This is the most important difference. If 3 MAXes coordinate a Vortex shot, they can instantaneously destroy a tank without a chance to fight back. With Ravens, there is a window during which the tank can at least backpedal a bit, or the driver can ditch the tank altogether. The Vortex, I think, is therefore superior when used en masse for killing people. Opinions may differ because I haven't really been at the receiving end of a Raven spam, but having participated in Raven farmfests, I can tell you that I don't get many personnel kills as I do vehicle kills because people always eject before I can finish them off.

Ravens also leave the MAX completely exposed. We need clear vision to keep tracking targets, and even if we can still guide the rockets when they're not in the line of sight, that does not mean we will hit the intended targets. Vortex, however, allows the MAX to duck and cover while the gun charges. One could argue that Ravens continue to be guided while the MAX is shielded, but that means the MAX deals a pathetic amount of damage. I think the VS has a bit of an advantage here.

As for splash damage, on Ravens it's not that useful. Most of the AI work that Ravens do come from direct hits. I guess Ravens are kind of overpowered in respect to AI. However, for straight up vehicle destruction, a group of Ravens does take the crown. I don't think they need a nerf; quite the opposite, Fractures and Vortex need a buff. Ravens can't really be nerfed now while keeping them useful enough.

Completely disagree.

Good for you. On what exactly, and why?

MAX AV is a mobility fight outside of a few special situations a lockdown AV max will get easily killed by tank shells.

Ravens do not leave the MAX exposed anymore then other maxes when firing at vehicles all AV MAXes can strafe to their hearts content evading a tank cannon's reliance on predictive shooting (which them max can evade on a dime).

If they insist on balancing TR MAX weapons based around lockdown then they should tone down lockdown and tone up the weapons in turn. MAX lockdown as previously stated is a very situational ability in other words all those lockdown bonuses that our weapons are balanced around are rarely used.

No they don't. With a Raven you get above cover, fire + spot your target, and then use the target marker on your HUD to guide the rockets while being totally invulnerable.

Realistically, I think that the Vortex is probably the most balanced long range AV MAX weapon that Fractures should be buffed to and Ravens should be nerfed to... and yes Ravens are probably the most unbalanced thing in the game right now.

How to fix it?
With Fractures I would increase the velocity to 250-300m/s, remove the wobble but totally remove splash damage. With the Velocity buff you would have to alter how much lockdown would effect velocity since the hard cap on Fractures should only be about 400m/s.

With Ravens I would cut the magazine size to 4, increase reload speed to 2.0/2.2 seconds, and either lower velocity to 60m/s or nerf the rockets turn speed.

hmm i'd do it differently.

Based on your idea i would buff the velocity, remove the CoF, boost the damage per rocket but reduce the clip size. add decent ranged lock on coyote mechanic and no drop but fractures and ravens rockets yaw and roll rates would have to be restricted so major corrections are not possible.

But minor miss-aiming in flight is correctable directly with ravens and autonomous with fractures *if* if it was close enough to lock on and had not passed the targeted vehicle.

In addition fractures, ravens and vortexes would have an ADS penalty added like the heavy shield so there is no more strafe dancing OR Maxes in general would have to decelerate when changing strafe directions so they can no longer so very easily evade prediction shooting.

The main problem i see in this is tuning the coyote mechanic properly, if you look up my post history you'll find i made a suggestion that the striker get a coyote mechanic and the striker is still bad with the coyote mechanic for anything other then close range AA.

I like your idea of reducing raven clip size and increasing reload speed. if these av weapons have smaller clips and longer reload times i can see the effectiveness of a lone AV max with said weapons going down without truely punishing multiple AV maxes working as a group.