[Vehicle] Lockdown Vs Manguard Shield.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Dreez, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. Movoza

    I was pointing out the implications that even though I can have the single best advantage of outflanking from the back, it doesn't matter for a Prowler crew who just keeps their cool. If you add the fact that they could have chosen to be 2 1/2 prowlers that are deployed, then you can see how royally screwed people are.
    Also, tanking alone isn't advised, but can still give great rewards for people who are adept at outflanking and outmanoeuvring their foe. I myself don't always have friends online or random people to partner up with, so if I want to have a fun time and not just shell away from a distance, I roam the edges of the battle-space with great success. Vanguards and Magriders are still easy to destroy in relative terms if you've outflanked them with an AP lightning. The Prowler is too when they panic and deploy/undeploy. If they don't do either, a Prowler is for me the most fearsome enemy I encounter on the field when I'm trying to outmanoeuvre them. If they are deployed they just kill me up front while I have all the advantages of shooting in the back and the first shot and the surprise while they have the disadvantages of my front armour and having to turn their turrets. If they aren't deployed, they have a much harder time but the DPS is still insane. It just nullifies a legitimate strategy. Me vs another tank and I surprise them from the back? They should by all rights be dead. They show no skill but turning a turret and shoot against a target's front.

    They are a pain, that is true. On the other hand, a Vanguard can only get one extra shot from the shield, while the lightning started with an AP round in the back. It is a grueling race if it is an AP Enforcer Vanguard, but with good manoeuvring you can best him. There is at least a chance when you play your best you win. With the prowler, they only have to turn their turrets to ruin your day.

    Although if I outmanoeuvre any MBT from a tactical better position (a small ridge or something which provides some cover), they they often have nothing to do but die if they can't find cover quickly enough.

    In the end I do want the shield changed to something else. People have a cognitive bias against it, and this should be removed. At the same time, the Vanguard should come more up to par with the other two MBT's. But any notion of ES abilities for MBT's that the shield is the best is just a sad statement if you look at on which tanks they are installed.
  2. PrimePriest


    I know what you mean. You ambush deployed Prowler...gunner just gets out, starts repairing while driver turns the turret and kills your Lightning in front armor. Your previous post made it sound like Vanguard has hard time defending from sneaky Lightnings. I've been ambushed many many times by Lightnings in the back. All it takes is pop shield -> start turning your back away from them - > proceed to win. It takes special skill to beat Vanguard in a Lightning. It takes different kind of special skill to beat Prowler in a Lightning.
    • Up x 1
  3. Shadowofsteel

    WARNING: The following post contains extreme amounts of LOGIC, Brutal Honesty, Knowledge of functionality with the related purposes and theories, Research, and a Non-Bias towards the subject matter. Please consider your responses carefully. Thank You.

    Your proposal for placing a cooldown on the Anchored Mode ability is not really something than can be done without completely changing the entire concept of the Anchored Mode for the Prowler. It is a toggled ability, which means you have to manually activate and deactivate it. It is also an ability that changes the entire state of the Prowler, entirely giving up it's advantages in movement speed and turning for increased shell velocity (more powder charge behind the shell) and reload speed (ammunition is layed out for optimal ease of access and speed of loading, not in storage spaces that would be necessary to keep them from becoming jumbled while on the move).

    I understand I am sighting things from the real world and am only doing so because I think I need to spell out what I am talking about when I say that it is changing the state of the Vehicle. To my knowledge, these methods (placed in the prentheses above) are the closest equivalents that are used to the same effect with modern self-propelled howitzers, and are used because of the advantages they have. The self-propelled howitzer is fully capable of performing direct fire on the move, but it is a last resort and highly discouraged. In real life, by anchoring the vehicle in position, a much greater powder charge can be used to launch a shell without causing damage to the vehicle, and being locked into position means the crew can move around and place the needed shells and powder within easy reach of the loader. This is also a theory of physics used for other stationary artillery, and as such is easily applicable in a game like Planetside 2 with it's in-game physics algorithms. Hence why I am even referencing this.

    In conclusion, the Anchored Mode-equiped Prowler is pretty much a mix of a tank and a self-propelled gun, thus should have the advantages of a field artillery piece while anchored, and the advantages of it's tank form while mobile. Because of this, providing a cooldown on the Anchored Mode would necessitate a complete redesign on it's purpose and function.
  4. Ronin Oni

    Magrider too even.

    Even with a rear ambush, a lgithning against any good 2/2 MBT crew is in for a hard fight, and thats with a leading rear blow.
  5. The_Blazing


    You also have to account that if a Prowler doesn't land a shot, it can immediately refire (while another tank would have immediately busted all of its potential damage per reload=, or wait 2.5s at worst while the other two tanks have 3.75s and 4s reload times. Also, DPS calculations normally ignore the driver's skill or weapon COF and just assume 100% accuracy all the time. If they didn't, you'd also have to factor in the possibility that a Magrider or Vanguard may miss a shot, and then factor in the reload time, and then... you get my point.
  6. Movoza

    Hmm let us see how much DPS they actually have.
    One cycle of the Magrider is 3,75 seconds (instant shot, 3,75 second reload). With 1865 damage, you'll get 1865/3,75=497.33 raw damage per second.
    Vanguard has a cycle of 4 seconds (instant shot, 4 second reload). With 2075 damage, you'll get 2075/4=518,75 raw damage per second.
    Prowler has a cycle of 3 seconds (instant shot, 0,5 second wait for next shot (120rpm), shot, 2,5 second reload). It does 1200 damage per shot, doing 2400 damage per cycle. You'll get 2400/3=800 raw damage per second.

    The Vanguard has rounded up 65% DPS of the Prowler.
    The Magrider has rounded down 62% DPS of the prowler.

    Now, if you only hit one shot per cycle, you'll do 400 dps per second with the Prowler.

    The Prowler has rounded down 77% DPS of the Vanguard.
    The Prowler has rounded down 80% DPS of the Magrider.

    So if you miss half your shots and they have 100% accuracy, you'll still do very well. The DPS disadvantage of the Prowler here is percentage wise less than if both parties have 100% accuracy. Looking at the numbers, you can already tell how much they have to miss to drop under your DPS. Lets keep the numbers small. This means that the Vanguard does less DPS with 75% accuracy. Meaning missing one in 4 shots. The Magrider is even worse, and will drop just under your DPS with 80% accuracy, meaning they have to miss only 1 in 5 shots to drop down under your DPS.
    All the while you miss half of your shots.

    Now do you like stats? Dasnfall has a lot of stats from all servers. If you reach over a certain amount of kills, it will be statistically viable for them to do statistics. Possibly over 100 kills. I'm not sure. Anyway, lets see the average accuracy scores over all servers for these weapons!
    The Vanguard AP hits 44,7% of the time, with a standard deviation of 7,8 (68,2% of the people score within 36.9 to 52.5%)
    The Magrider FPC hits 49% of the time, with a standard deviation of 8 (41 to 57%)
    The Prowler AP hits 39,6% of the time, with a standard deviation of 8,3 (31.3 to 47.9)
    Highest vs highest the Prowlers win vs Vanguards and Magriders (383.2 vs 272.3 and 283.5)
    and lowest vs lowest the Prowlers win vs Vanguards and Magriders (250.4 vs 191.4 and 203.9)

    There you have it. All the factors that actually have played in the game with people that have at least killed more than 50 people are set out here. The Prowler has a higher DPS over all servers, thus more damage to its name. It also has much more kills, Vkills, KPH, KPU, VKPH, VKPH to back it up from other sites. The Prowler is the winner, with at a good distance the at second place Magrider and then the Vanguard.

    You may change the shield ability, but other things have to change too. I don't mind myself that the Van is underperforming, I like the challenge. So for my perspective, you should aim to change the ability to something that will either keep the Vanguard the same in stats but less cognitively annoying for the enemies, or a bit better stats.

    Edit: remember that I only calculated normal DPS. The deployed DPS is just too insane to compare.
  7. Vorpal_Spork