[Suggestion] this game would be objectively more fun for a majority players if A2G ESF's were toned down.

Find the list of top ESF pilots showing those numbers. When you do, you will still find that they turn better numbers in tanks.

Let's just take a quick look at the king of farmers... known for his ESF farming skills
https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428010618035589553/vehicles

His prowler numbers still exceed his ESF numbers. In fact go ahead and click any name from the leader boards and see which vehicles they are dominating in the most. ESFs are not trumping tanks. I don't know who the "average" player would be, but just clicking on the average dudes showing up on my killboard... the trend is the same. People are showing about a 10% higher SPM with tanks than ESFs. Only a few have shown higher ESF numbers than MBT.

I understand that you FEEL air is OP, but statistically it just doesn't pan out. Killboards of the average player show more deaths to tanks. Stats show that most players perform better in tanks than planes. You don't like that air can kill your tank... but that doesn't make for a statistical imbalance.

If the only A2G kills you guys are getting are against people who are by themselves and utterly defenseless why do your weapons need to be as powerful as they are now? Hornet AV is on the same level as an Anchored AP Prowler but also has more splash damage/volley than a HEAT cannon.

You leave the zerg for a moment and face guaranteed death from a single guy in an ESF who was just flying by then sees you and thinks, "Oh look, free certs". He doesn't even need to be a good pilot, he just needs to know how to point and click.

It shuts down anyone who doesn't want to be a mindless zergling, and anyone can do it.

I don't even have a problem with Rocketpods because there's counterplay. For me, it is just a problem with Hornets.

What?

The only kills ESFs can get in large battles is by picking off stupid people... and that requires further nerfing an already beleaguered vehicle? I am sorry that ESFs kill you when you are in bad places. That doesn't change the fact that the vehicle is already underperforming compared to its ground counterparts. ESFs are already unapproachable to new players because their ability to deal damage is dwarfed by how fragile they are. You feel that they should be made even less accessible because idiots want to anchor their tanks on hills without AA support?

You cannot rewrite the airgame because idiots want to venture alone in tanks.

We're never going to agree because you consider anyone who doesn't turn off their brain and sit safely inside the blob to be an idiot.

Now if you want to ask for better "going deep" tank loadout options, that is fine. But going deep in tanks will always be risky. There are too many sharks in the deep end of the pool that are looking for something to do.

No, I consider anyone who ignores their surroundings an idiot. When I play ground on my alts, I always try to keep a mental note of where our friendly AA is and where the repair/ammo sundies are.

Overextending is overextending. It exists in this game for all classes and vehicles. Don't overextend.

Or do if you like, but know the risk/reward equation you are playing with.

And I do that. So does Fleech. So does anyone else who seriously feels like braving the world outside the middle of the zerg.

But that doesn't stop an ESF from flying in at any time with Hornets, facerolling you, then leaving before any AA or ally aircraft reacts.

Keep in mind that I'm not even talking about overextending and going behind enemy lines. I'm talking about leaving the center mass of the zerg and venturing into the flanks or into a better position where the ally zerg still has LOS into your position.

One of my earliest memories of fighting Fleech is having him get the jump on me ~50m away from the zerg, me damaging him to 50% health before losing my tank, then a Hornet ESF flying over the hill, nuking him in the back for the insta-kill, then flying away before AA could do a thing. We're both basically next to the zerg, just not in the middle of the road where everyone can shoot at you and you can't accomplish anything.

And Bravo to you guys for it. It is a ballsy move for a reason. If it really bothers you, have you considered finding a skyguard buddy to shadow you? You seem like a smart guy, so I assume you have to understand the game dynamic at work here. You are going where others aren't... for a reason. It isn't safe. You roll the dice with the risk/reward.

Driving a tank away from aa cover is about as smart as flying your ESF INTO a flak wall. Yes that is where all of the goodies are, but there is a price to be paid for going where it isn't safe.

Are you seriously trying to propose a game dynamic where wandering off alone in a tank has no real downside? That would leave a game where tanks completely own the countryside in a giant "World of Tanks" game, and air would pretty much just be a cosmetic side game where pilots only bother to shoot at other pilots. That is NOT the point of combined arms.

Seriously, just get a 3rd buddy to follow you around in a skyguard. Not only will they keep enemy air off you, they can also help keep the C4 fairies off you.

So... 3 people to fend off a single ESF.
And even then it's not much more than a deterrence.

... Seems "fair".

Awww I feel special! <3 I haven't been on much recently, needed break from the game. But rest assured when I know you're around in a vanny, you are my main target!

Hi Schwak!

No, 3 people to create a zone where you can fend of a handful of ESFs and create your own personal killzone. And yes all AA weapons are deterrence weapons, that is the only way it can be. Air has mobility and can go anywhere it wants quickly. AA weapons create safe bubbles and the only way pilots are going to die to them is by ignoring them. This is the exact opposite of how it is with tanks. They want to be INSIDE the bubble and they get punished for leaving it. Most of the action occurs on the edge of the bubble, and the most interesting stuff happens when someone crosses the imaginary lines.

You cannot tank safely outside the AA bubble any more than ESFs can farm safely inside of it. The more one overextends, the more one is going to want friends along for the adventure.

You can't ignore the nature of each vehicle and then scream when it doesn't go right. Would it be fair if two AI maxes wander out alone in the open and get creamed by a single AV lightning?

"That is hardly fair! Two Maxes vs one lightning and they lose!" Of course they will lose, they are ignoring the battle environment and they are overextending.

I'm proposing a Planetside 2 where a random scrub can't easily faceroll an MBT with impunity because they pulled a Hornet ESF.

That's all. I don't care if I get attacked by a Liberator, or a Rocketpod ESF, or 3 ESFs with noseguns. What bothers me is the insta-win that Hornets give to any player with the ability to hover.

Why not add weight to ESF's players who decided to put big a$$ rocket pods on their wings? I just don't get it. Like many have said, you have 1 weird looking plane (if I would even call it that), that can do 3+ things as once. Players should have a negative penalty for loadouts. What gives ESF players the right to be more maneuverable than a UFO with heavy loadouts placed on their wings.
You want rocket pods, fine. You can have them, but your going to be so slow and less maneuverable, that if you decided to hang in the air sniping inf/tanks right above the battlefield you will be shot down very quickly.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

The times you die to air is when someone with a significantly larger view and mobility notices you from above and pounces on any time that is most ideal for them.

You don't need to be a skygod to wreck ground. Nor do the players on the ground need to be alone or bad to be wrecked. I am not a very good pilot, but I come in high, if I see a smoking anything, or a vehicle that's not moving I'm going to basically drop right behind him hornet from the rear and fly away before anyone even noticed. The same can go for infantry/maxes, I zip over a fight with thermals up, I don't slow down but infantry is going to die even if they were in cover with a strong group of allies.

They're not bad for not noticing me, I just have a very large set of advantages that are only present to those who are in the sky. When you are flying you can flip to third person, spin and take in a kilometer view around you, zoom out your map which is conveniently flattened to show everything on the ground that's spotted/in radar of your friends, and then choose your engagement.

On the ground you can spin your smaller FOV view looking to the sky in hopes of seeing an aircraft. If someone has spotted one or you are actually lucky enough to auto spot one firing all you see on the map is the shape of the aircraft without height information. Even if you are in a skyguard the advantage is always in favor of the ESF.

Those same hornets get destroyed in dogfights, so in exchange for the ability to punish you for overextending - they are a sitting duck to any ESF running AB, Coyotes or A2AMs. You only see the sucky side for you without seeing the punishment they receive for that loadout.

I understand your frustration, there are plenty of unfun aspects to this game - but it is not at all an unfair arrangement. He pulls an ESF with a specifically non-A2A loadout, and he finds you overextending... it is not going to end well for you. His plane was designed to take out guys doing what you are doing.

If you roll your facetank up on a pair of skyguards who have no AV cover - you will end them just as quickly - and they will be just as pissed. You will have the right weapon in the right place at the right time.

Utterly defensless? You mean like all the infantry you farm?

I drive tanks too, and they are far from utterly defenseless.

Put an AA gun on the back and see how many solo ESF kill you.

I'm running along as infantry looking for another infantry to shoot and some tanker sees me and says "oh look, free certs!".

I have spend hundreds of hours in both vehicle types. Tanks>ESF.

If you are having problems dying to solo esf then you need friends.

You kill solo infantry EVERY time, ESF kills SOLO you.

I have shot down hundreds of ESF with a magrider which is a terrible G2A tank. I have been shot down hundr3eds of times by tanks.

How is that utterly defenseless? Being able to OHK your enemy.

Try using hills to gain elevation and then one shot the ESF.

Or put an AA gun on.

Dont want to run an AA gun then dont QQ about dying to air.

No, that's 3 people to create a zone where one ESF will have a challenge. If you add 1 ESF who's not awful (still less people and resources than the ground group) you can just go and kill them.

The main difference lies in that the ESF may get deterred. The MBT gets facerolled.


I fail to see why a single ESF has to have enough firepower to solo the MBT, what with all the advantages of being an ESF/flying. If doing A2G is so damn important, accept that you can't really do it alone, not in the ESF. It's a 1 man craft, balance it as such (you know, like the lighting). It's even got two weapons for that one player, yet one weapon (Hornets) is stronger than the single gun tanks get.




But I'm done arguing with sky knights.

Yeah, I've been trying Skyguard lately, and while I can and have blowed up ESF pilots who tried to facetank me ftw, I have never killed an ESF who came in, fired his weapons and hit the **** button. Most of my kills are pilots who are distracted by something else and let me get a huge burst into them before they went evasive, or were basically a KS from friendly air (sorry dudes).

And deterrence actually means you deter someone. If an ESF is not afraid of dying before they can shoot and leave, there's no deterrence happening. Instead, there's free repair xps to go with whatever the weapons just got them.

Not joining the ESF is overpowered fight, just pointing out that deterrence isn't guaranteed with G2A.

Because nothing kills tanks.

Because tanks own the battle field.

Because anything that kills tanks is a good thing.

Tanks farm me all day long when i try to play infantry.

There is no counter to the tank zerg.

None.

So you are invincible in numbers, and there are always numbers, so whats the problem?

I drive tanks more than i drive ESF lately and i rarely die to ESF. I shoot more of them down than i die to them.

It seems to me that if you are dying to ESF it is because you are bad.

A single skyguard will deter an ESF. 3 AA sources will instantly kill an ESF that gets within range to kill anything and kill it in less than 3 secs even if it hovers at a distance.

So what is the counter to tanks?

What is supposed to kill tanks?

Libs and ESF arent supposed to kill them. Infantry can kill them if they outnumber them and the tank is overextended. The better tank drivers i see kill scores of infantry with AV cannons and drive away to repair before coming back.

So basically tank drivers want no one to be able to kill them.

I learned to fly because i was tired of being farmed by tanks. Rocket pods were win back then. They actually worked like they should at killing tanks.

ESF a2g has been nerfed over and over.

You just want them nerfed so your 30+ kill streaks can become 100+ kill streaks.

Silliness.

Deter doesnt mean prevent.

I have some news for you, the skies arent empty.

There are lots of enemy planes.

So even if you just do 25% damage to me, all you need is to have a friendly air get on me and im at a huge disadvantage.

This game isnt supposed to be about one person or one vehicle or one type of play.

Its a combined arms game.

You are deterring planes from hovering. If you have any kind of team you should also have lock-ons.

Skyguard can be pulled from any base.

If you get a buddy and you both pull a skyguard and assist on spotted targets you WILL kill many planes.