Nerf the Claymore.

That's basically been the whole argument. OP doesn't quite understand what the TR had to deal with.

18% more kills is not overpowered.

I figured I'd come in and lend my 2 certs to the discussion.

The way I see it, there are two situations (and two modifiers) where mines are visually observed when ignoring cover and placement and all that other fancy jazz where skill and whatnot are not taken into account. Indoors and outdoors at either daytime or night time. See, I am somewhat colorblind so I have to rely on high contrast to see objects and in the end, the way I see it (haw) breaks down kinda like this:

Indoors:

Prox: During the day, without the lights, it would blend in a lot, having lights on it alleviates that issue. At night, it stands out a bit more (to me, at least) but again, the lights make it very visible.

Bouncing Betty: During the day, much like the prox, it'd be hard as heck to see but the glowing blue halo makes that easier. It's not as easy to see as the prox mine, though, because seeing blue light on a blue background is only marginally helpful but hey, it's not horrifically bad. At night, it stands out like a sore thumb, even moreso than the prox mine (I guess sky blue on a dark blue/grey background is better than white lights on a dark blue/grey background?)

Claymore: During the day, it's super easy to spot. Big black nub standing up as it is. At night? It's pretty dang hard to spot. To my eyes, the green lasers (and they are there!) are nigh invisible and incredibly easy to overlook. They're not TOO terrible, per se, because it's still a black object on a dark blue/grey background but they don't stand out nearly as much as either prox mines or bouncing bettys

Outdoors:

Prox: During the day, may as well just plop down frisbee in the middle of a field. At night, they're invisible if they're placed in shadows, thank goodness for the lights which make them easy to spot

Bouncing Betty: Much the same to Prox in all manners both day and night.

Claymore: During the day, they're the most difficult to spot in a field since they're not exactly brightly colored but they're still pretty dang easy to see. At night, however, and especially in shadows, to someone like me, they are 100% invisible. I can be walking (not sprinting) directly towards a claymore, staring right at it, and I will walk directly into it and die. How do I know this? It happens a lot, actually.

Really, that's my only beef with the claymore, it's not as visible as the other mines are in common conditions (like night time). It has nothing to do with my skill. It has nothing to do with being reckless. It has everything to do with the game being so dark that colors kinda blend together and renders claymores invisible.

Call it a balance issue if you like, call it an accessibility issue, I really don't care, but I would truly like to see claymores have some sort of light or indication that they're present rather than just being utterly invisible if you have less-than-perfect color vision.

"
570 claymores kill in more than 2100 hours including more than 100 hours as engie/inf, i'm clearly a claymore spammer that defend his broken toy!

Yes please, makes claymore multidirectionel and flat like BB/prox mine, like this i won't need to put those at highly previsible places to get kills.

Frostiken,

One point: you may have enough outliers like myself among the TR who are dedicated claymore mine users that the kph is skewed. For example, my kph is over 300 per hour and I regularly kill over 900 a month with claymores. I have more claymore mine kills than the top prox mine and bouncing betty mine killers combined. Is this because the claymore is OP? Not necessarily. I just spend the time and resources to get my claymores in positions to get kills. And I reseed as quickly as I can in heavy battles.

I can solve your problem.

EOD HUD Displays enemy explosives within 20m on your HUD.

I have noticed that claymores kill me instantly, yet bettys/proximines I can run right over without flak armor and live 95% of the time.

The Orion and PPA seems overpowered because the VS players are simply better at using them. Why are we better at using them? *Because the VS had to deal with 20-25% underpopulation for 6 months, leaving only the best players of the faaction while the bad players left for TR and NC.

There are no Overpowered VS weapons, just better VS players.

It's funny how every time the TR gets outed as having an overpowered weapon, the explanations are always "Skill."

I'm sorry. I don't remember arguing anything about the Orion recently. Honestly, as I use it more I find it to be quite ok.

I find that claymores are more difficult to deal with than other mines because they have a trigger range further in front of them rather than centered around their position. This means that covering a doorway is easier since you only need to place it to the side of the door, and hence it is not going to be sitting in the middle of the door frame, which the other mines need to be placed to cover the whole door span (making them easier to spot).

So typically when I'm going to run through a doorway against VS or NC I look at the center and slightly to the sides, but with the TR the claymore can be placed further back around the side and escape more immediate notice.

Correct, no weapons can be claimed to be overpowered because they belong to a specific faction, but because of how it is used and how powerful it is.

sarcasm in italics

I think it's about perception, every time a NC/VS mines goes off and doesn't kill (it's UP the guy didn't die because the low dmg/sprinted out of the AOE)

every time a TR mines goes off and doesn't kill ("the guy was wearing flak armor, working as intended")

Seriously i can't believe how bad some NC/VS minelayers are they'll dump mines out in the open near a cap point etc with no nearby cover objects to obscure it's presence. let's not forget since non-TR mines are omni directional they can drop them as they are running away from you hoping the damage will finish you off

TR can do the same thing but it's more risky.

If more NC/VS used their mines like TR does there wouldn't be a perceived problem.

If you must place a mine outside put it under a bush or grass near a popular route. place mines where you expect the enemy may take to reach you. sometimes you have cover you can use that will get someone from one direction but if they come from the other they'll see the mine and be able to shoot it.

I have no idea why Proxies would have less kills then the other two. If I remember right, they slide around like cows on ice before 'clamping down' on the floor a bit, but that has been some time ago and may have been changed already (Claymore placing algorithm was definitely changed sometime during the last few months - it's much harder **** up their placement now), so don't quote me on that; either way that should not cause such a big stat discrepancy by itself.

...we should probably restart that thread about mine placement tips we had awhile ago.

How come this thread came up today? Because of the bug? The Claymore has been the best AI mine in the game for over a year now (since they put strobe lights on the NC/VS ones). I still don't see it much of an issue though.

The only thing I really care about and I havn't really changed my tune is that the players should not be able to place Claymores at their feet and stand on top of them without feeling any negative effects. Even when they are close enough to have their player model's legs on the Claymore preventing anyone from knowing it is even there because of an issue with the hit detection. Players who do this should at least feel damage when it goes off or become concussed from the blast.

Right now it's annoying that there is one faction with one mine that enables the player to plant a heavy damage explosive shield around himself and conceal its presence with its brokenness. The other mines work well on stairs and inclines? Well good for them but I mainly play Light Assault and avidly avoid staircases and when I do go up staircases I am always cautious. When I do see/hear a mine at the top it isn't hard to back peddle and crouch allowing the blast to go clean over me when I'm smart. Unfortunately if a guy wants to plant an explosive force field on himself I have little choice but to take a hit.

Giving one faction this ability for basically no real balance reason other than SOE trying to balance out the aesthetics of each weapon is pointless because no one mine is never going to be perfectly balanced with the other two. The simplest solution I can come up with is fix the Claymore then make the Claymore and BB/PM type available to everyone equally using different colors instead of different models.

This is like having faction specific Tank Mines. Pointless unless the point is to create a balance issue.

For the sake of friendly debate can we please stop posting this misinformation? I would be more than happy to meet up with someone on a server and take screen caps of the Claymores from a VS or NC position to put this garbage to rest.

Bouncing Betties/Proximity Mines blend the best with standard issue Nanite Systems building alloy colors, try and debunk that. Also overpowered bushes.

Where were you when the Claymore was a straight downgrade? For quite some time, it did the same damage and had the same range, just with a limited fire arc. It was also the only mine that was still visible when it fell through the floor.

Anyway, I think the reason you get more kills with the Claymore is that TR has been forced to actually think where they put their mines. They have never been able to just put them in the middle of a door and thrust that bugs make them invisible. We have always been forced to actually hide them. Try start putting mines in smart locations and you'll lose fewer.

The Claymore has been the most lethal anti infantry mine since a long long time, long before they even added the strobe lights on the other mines.

• It had a bigger area of effect
• It was doing more damage than the other mines
• The damage was applied instantly, instead of having a delay
• Was not in direct LOS and it did not lose area of effect when placed out of LOS
• Lost the red IR lines and is the only mine without any visual indication
• It is less visible outdoors as well, bushes and vegetation hide it better than the strobe light variants

The only downside is that you can't frizby it as an infiltrator. However, you can place it in front of you as a defense mechanism and suffer no damage if it activates right next to you.

Does it need a nerf? No, this thread is ludicrous.

That's the first of the more recent adjustments granted to "offset" the limited explosion and triggering slice. I'd have to read back over update notes but I don't recall it being too big of an increase; though, not knowing off the top of my head, I could be very wrong about that. I do know that prior to that change the radius of that pie slice of death extended no further out than the radius of a Proximity Mine or Bouncing Betty, and I never had trouble catching hasty people using them before the increase.

I think I've realized you could do this too, but, for the sake of fair game, I consciously try to align them with the door pane so that my opponents have at least a fair shot of seeing them if they were to be careful. It's better than putting Boomers on the inner walls of stairwells.

"Wallhugging punishable by death."

I'm not sure what this is about, but I'd have to test it. I've caught many an ally and enemy at the same time because the former was standing what looked like "on" my mine and the latter ran though a nearby door. This might be an issue with the vertex of the wedge that is both the trigger point and the blast area being too thin to adequately deliver damage on anyone standing right on top of it. Regardless whether it's by design or by glitch, it probably shouldn't be the case.

That's due to the radial effect of Betties and Proxies, and a combination of the natural triggering delay and the server communication delay. The triggering radius is smaller than the blast radius so that the victim doesn't just hear the mine activate and then backs out of the radius, were they closer in size. I don't think the drop-off of the blast radius should be as forgiving as it may be (for the victim) and perhaps there's room for modification in as far as the triggering radius is concerned that would make it harder to escape.
At the very least, someone should never be able to run straight over the mine and survive without sufficient personal defense.

Learn how areas work. The other mines have a much larger area of effect. The Claymore has a 180 degree firing arc where the others have 360. They all do damage out to 6.5 meters so Claymore has HALF the effective area of the others. As a compensation for that, they do 1300 max instead of 1000 and so max damage out to 3 meters instead of 2 meters for the others.

It does more damage now, it didn't for ages.

The delay is so small it's irrelevant. You have no time to go anywhere. You only have time to think "oh ****".

What does that even mean?

For the hundreth time, the lights are utterly irrelevant. They don't render until you are on top of it. When the lights render, you are already screwed.

You know what we were told when we spent over a year complaining about having the worst mine by a good margin? We were told that we needed to learn how to play.

Anyway, the only way you can place a Claymore is around a corner or behind a door where it's not visible. Betties and proxies on the other hand are normally placed in the middle of the door. The reason is most likely that you guys have been so used to mine never render so you never had to hide them. There's still lots of problems with mines not rendering. It's highly frustrating getting killed by something that pops out of nowhere. At least now they don''t fall through the floor. It almost seems like they only render properly if you were close enough to them when they were placed. Anyway, no wonder people don't step on them when they are placed in really obvious places. So when they do render properly, they are very easy to spot at range. Note that the lights still aren't a factor here.

So I'll say the same as I was told when I asked if the Claymore could at least get a longer range to compensate for the limited area of effect. L2P n00b!