Nerf the Claymore.

I'd happily settle for every faction having a common mine type, but i have to agree with other posters have been saying.

As a claymore user you have to think more about placement(and if you stuff up the placement it'll just never trigger and be a total waste), and generally that means your mines end up in more blind spots and catch players out better. Where as when you come across a betty or prox, it's just typically just smack bang in the middle of the floor(seriously i rarely see them anywhere strategical).

This a perceived problem, not an actual issue though, i don't find them a particular problem when i run NC or VS alts for some giggles, but then that's probably because i know all the places i'd personally choose to put them(so i check those spots when i'm on the receiving end).

Don't blindly run round corners and/or run flak armor. I run flak on quite a few of my loadouts specifically for this purpose, i'm an impatient bugger at times and that's always when i get caught out(not checking corners/doorways/floor, just blindly charging in).

You're partially right that some of the upsides of the claymore came into play into different time frames.

• The lethal area of the claymore is the highest of the three. They definitely don't have the same area of effect. The only thing that is the same is the point where zero damage is applied. See the following for more details:
  https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...july-24-2013-time-is-tbd.142483/#post-1996752
• It always did more damage. Pretty much since launch. What changed recently (as in summer last year) and people noticed more is the doubling of the internal maximum damage blast radius.
• The delay is enough for me to run behind a corner and negate the mine completely. Claymore is insta-kill if you are inside the lethal radius.
• Direct LOS means that for the NC & VS mines, you merely need to look in front of you to spot them. If they are placed in the sides of the doorway, the delay is long enough that you will run outside their lethal blast. For TR mines however, you need to check both sides of the doorway before entering the room. Or use flak armor all the time.
• Lights were a huge thing for TR mines, you could literally see the beams before entering a doorway. Which is why they got removed. Lights are a huge things for NC & VS mines, making them extremely obvious. Especially considering that the mines are not merely illuminated, but they are blinking.

They are the best mines in the game and have been for more than a year now. The extra placement time however and the lack of the ability to frizby them as an infiltrator make them less appealing. Had they been more popular, SOE would have surely nerfed them back. Considering the current usage, no measure needs to be taken, in my opinion.

What do you think is more obvious. A disk in front of you with strobe lights blinking or one that is in a corner somewhere, with no such indication?

And to give some indication to people that were not in the game since launch, this was how Claymores looked from a friendly perspective. From an enemy perspective, the green beams looked red.

Stop respond claymore has been bug with last patch and are invisible.
There is nothing to nerf just fix the bug.

You still missed the point where THE LIGHTS ON THE MINES DO NOT RENDER UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE!
If you see the lights, then it's roughly the same time as it goes bang. The lights are utterly pointless. They add exactly nothing but a red herring for people to cry about. If you manage to run away from a betty after it jumps up, then you must have some strange connection.

So again, learn to place the mines smartly instead of just relying on bugs like the last two years and the kills will go up.

BTW, area of highest effect is 14,1 vs 12.5 square meters. Would you be happy if they reduced the radius to 2.828 meter instead of 3 so they had an exactly equal area? Because that's the difference.

Anything laying in the middle of the doorway like that is dead obvious. Lights or no lights, i'd spot that just as easily as a prox or betty when it's in the most obvious spot possible.

Claymore is my 4th highest killing infantry weapon(top 3 are guns i don't even touch now but spent alot of time with for the first year), i've spent a reasonable amount of time killing people with them. The kind of players i observe dying the most to my AI mines are unobservant players, people that just charge into every area or those few guys i can bait into claymore traps... (mwahhhh hahahhahahaha!).

The KPH for the claymore according to dasanfall only puts the claymore a little ahead of the two others, but as i said previously, i think that's largely due to how TR have to(or should) use the mine, ie. placing them in blind spots, and thus catch players out more easily. Take that image for example, me, i'd stick the claymore around that right corner facing the same way the camera is in that image and as close to the wall as possible (ie. get that idiot that just mindlessly runs through that doorway toward the next room, because there's always one).

In all my replies in this pointless thread I've mentioned multiple times that I'm fine with the current balance of AI mines and no change is necessary. That does not change the fact that the Claymores are the best mines in the game and have been for a considerable amount of time (over a year).

So many times I've placed a mine not visible to enemy because that have ran past it, while watching as stalker and they still survive with hardly a scratch, one time i ran as far to place a mine directly under someone while behind him and ran away watched it go off directly and still didn't kill him.

Flak armor.

The funny part is that the glowy lights were added to the BB and PM because the CM had glowy green lines which have since disappeared.

Removing all the lights from AI mines would be fine with me personally.

Would be fine with me too. VS and NC players just need to learn placement.

They don't need to learn placement, they need to learn smart and devious placement.

The biggest difference i see between claymores and the other 2 mines is given how the claymores operate you will almost always see them against a corner or wall the other i see are just strewn about all over the place like someone thought "hey this seems like a good spot, right in the most obvious spot." Claymores are -almost- required to lay them against a corner otherwise they act funny and don't do all the damage.

Its like it doesn't even register with some people that the CM is a drastically different beast than the PM and BB...

It seems like I'm constantly having to watch people trigger my mines and run away with barely a scratch on them, even when they pass right over them they can still get away. Is it my fault they entered and then exited the sweet spot of my mines? I'm sure in your twisted viewpoints it is. Whatever the case you have to acknowledge the basic facts here.

While I get to use a 360 degree deployable toenail clipper someone else on the TR gets access to a 180 degree force field of death. For instance lets say I placed some mines on say... a jump pad. While with a BB or a PM I would have to pray some poor schmuck is going to be dumb enough to actually sprint towards my mine once he gets off the pad, because I can't place mines directly on the pad or I'll kill myself, but with the CM however I can place it back and the instant he touches ground he gets a taste of murder. This is because of the increased range, damage and quicker detonation time.

Extend this example into pretty much all scenarios where mines are going to be useful... grav lifts, teleporters, doorways, general chokepoints, ect... the only scenarios where the BB and PM might actually be the right tool for the job is Frisbee throwing them down inside groups of enemies and maybe at the top of staircases where their profile is a tad smaller. Regardless of the situation the CM will still pretty much be just as effective if not more because of it's higher killing potential against unaware player(s).

So stop it with this NC and VS need to L2P garbage. The Claymore is the mine generally best suited to area denial and it doesn't hurt that it is pretty good at mass murdering groups of people inside it's radius and that it can be placed and concealed by an actual player's player model when they drop it 1mm outside of their explosives hitbox. Comparing the two as mines is about as fair a shot as comparing sticky grenades to C4. They are completely different in functionality and use.

I mean you can pretend that the problem really is with player skill on a massive scale but the Claymore has been outperforming for almost a year now in KPU and never once dipped below the other two for even a brief moment.



What are the actual chances that the BB and PM are nearly identical in KPU for months while the CM outperforms them by a margin approximately 10x higher than the KPU difference between PM and BB? Face it your mine is better at being useful and therefore better used, not equal in usefulness but better used. I hope you can see past your collective egos to see that it's true.

there are only three reasons why someone didn't die from a mine:

1) they destoryed the mine with gunfire
2) they have flak armor
3) in the case of NC/VS mines supposedly running outside the lethal blast radius

You are complaining that NC/VS mines are not lethal enough and yet you are calling to nerf claymores instead of asking for balance changes to NC/VS mines.

You have no sympathy from me, you want nerfs to claymore because it is doing it's job properly while your mines aren't. Something being more powerful then other options doesn't always mean it is powerful beyond it's intended purpose.

ask for changes to NC/VS mines instead, just don't blame anyone if they adjust them in a way you don't like.

Is that the real reason whenever something is reasonably good(not OP) people ask for nerfs the same way they ask for nerfs to blatantly OP stuff? do players want devs to bungle the [not-your-faction's stuff?]

The only "nerf" I have asked for is fixing the collision issue with people having limbs physically in front of the mine and taking no damage from the blast which is only a nerf if you think fixing bugs is a nerf. Your reaction is totally out of left field and unwarranted. Try actually reading the thread before making stuff up out of thin air.

Amazing people are such rush to judgements. Even the people who liked your post must be in their own fairylands.

Let me actually clarify what I have been advocating because asking people to actually read up on a person's argument is apparently too much to ask from some.

1. I want the hit detection fixed
2. I want Claymore 180degree mines and BB/PM 360degree mines shared to all factions

There. I hope that is easy to understand.

you are the one who is blind look at the thread header [NERF THE CLAYMORE] it's not [FIX THE CLAYMORE EXPLOIT] etc the OP is asking for nerfs to the claymore not for a fix to the exploit and that's what it would be a fix not a nerf.

OP wants

more obvious lights on claymores or none on NC/VS mines
complains that claymore blends in well even though it's a grey and RED and it's a hide around a corner or crate mine.

You talk about how TR mine outperforms the other two then complain about people who survive your mine explosions and i provided possible reasons why that is the case.

Then you complain some more that a mine with less explosive surface area of effect does more damage then a omni-directional mines again.

Then you complain about how useful you think your mines are in a bunch of situations underlining your dislike of how your mines function.

So tell me is it so unreasonable to come to the conclusion from your post that you want a nerf to claymores given you've stated you don't like your mines.

You don't like that the claymore is better at it's role.
You make no mention of wanting balance changes to bring the NC/VS mines to equal the claymore.
so therefore it is a reasonable assumption you desire a nerf to claymores and not a buff to NC/VS mines.

So lets see hmm nope don't fix NC/VS mines oh no, give us the TR mines as common pool because faction differences don't matter at all, why don't you give TR ravens, VS fractures and NC lancers while you at it?

Sarcasm in italics.

No. You are just ridiculous. You are acting like it is somehow my fault you can't or refuse to read. You obviously missed my point completely if you did.

Now you're just being obtuse. You pretend like you want to remedy the situation but when I offer a viable alternative you act like I'm trying to say things that I am not to try and make me sound crazy. So I ask you. Do we have faction specific tank mines? What about C4? Resto kits? Medical kits? Ammo packages?

Let me ask you are there any items in the utility slot that are faction specific other than the anti-personnel mines? My idea isn't as out there as you wish you can make it out to be.

Which is around 100000 times easier with claymores. At least so long as there are lights on mines (the guy who thought of this should be fired btw). If those ever go away that gap will diminish.

If you were just about fixing the exploit you would not have complained about performance you would have merely talked about how people can stand on top of them and cover them with their player model.

instead you whine about the differences between the mines then state you want them to be commonpool. this isn't about 'balance' for you, no this is about both the exploit and you wanting one of TR's weapons that isn't mundane or boring and trying to use statistics to push your desire.