Why not show the Tr and VS in more positive light?

i picture the vs as being kinda trans humanists, which i dont see as good, i thought the nc were the rebels fighting for freedom but i guess i should of reconised the "corporate" in their name as meaning they serve the to big to fail companys.. so i gues there are no good guys. i agree that i think the lore needs a massive overhaul

Dinosaurs evolved into chickens.
Also, am I the only one who finds it funny that the gem's cult religion worshiping evolution? Next time, actually bring an argument

Where is "All the evidence"?
I keep hearing about all this evidence, so come on, it's not a phoenix wright game, you can show it early.

Given that "Better the Human race" works out so well and can't backfire at all.

Nor can worship of technology you don't understand.

As for the command economy, we all know exactly how flawed such a concept is, there's a reason the world runs on the free market.
And I've already mentioned how orwellian the TR have gotten countless times.

Do bother to actually read the lore. In interests of not making this brick longer than it has to be, I'll request you read my earlier posts, where I've debunked the belief that either the original, or the auraxis NC could be what all the left-wing idiots think a corporation is.

Time to put the NC in a better light. I vote this officially replaces the NC trailer.



START A NUCLEAR WAR!

And yes I play purple spandex most of the time, got something to say?

No, please keep all the Hero twits in one faction so I can farm their clueless *****.

Apparently you can't read. I'll re-post my previous post and bold the important bits.

There is no *NEED* to argue when the evidence is perfectly clear and available for all to see.

You were not arguing anything at all either. You simply went out and said the NC are the good guys, and based that on pro-NC in-universe propaganda that wipes away any and all blame or negative aspects of the faction, and in the next post, you go and literally state right out that the NC *ARE* the "Good guys" when the lore we have make it as clear as it can that this is not so, that all factions are shades of grey.

There is nothing to argue. You claim your personal opinion is fact in spite of all the evidence, and I ridiculed you for it.

And in case that was not clear enough:

LORE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ALL THE 3 FACTIONS ARE SHADES OF GREY, THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS, THERE ARE NO BAD GUYS, THEY ALL HAVE GOOD AND BAD TRAITS - YOU STATE OTHERWISE BASED SOLELY ON YOUR OWN OPINION ABOUT THE PRO-NC PROPAGANDA WRITTEN FROM THE NC PERSPECTIVE AND IN THE NC'S FAVOR. YOU IGNORE THE FACT THAT WE AS PLAYERS ARE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS A DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT THE NC *THINKS* IN-GAME AND WHAT WE AS PLAYERS KNOW IRL.

Studies shows that from Reagan presidency onwards, the USA have become one of the developed countries with the lowest social mobility, hence inheritance is a more important factor there than most european countries, hence hard work is valued less .

Also, while Breivik is certainly not the best example to showcase that, Norway has one of the most efficient judicial systems among developed countries: repeat offender rate is ~20% while it's ~66% in the US. Meaning good penitentiary conditions actually cost less (in terms of both security and money) to a society than making cheap prisons a living hell.

Received ideas...

Nah, this is still a country that rewards hard work the most, which is why it still enjoys the brightest immigrants from most notably Asian countries. But of course, take any chance you can to insult the conservative Reagan, like a good socialist.

What I don't get is why Europeans have such an obsession with their criminals. Repeat offender rates or not, You guys treat your criminals better than a lot of people. Criminals aren't entitled to anything, they give up their rights when the law is broken. P.S. the prisons in the US arent "living hell". Prisoners get free time, 3 hots and a cot. Too much if you ask me, but at least we don't let them stay in hotel rooms.

Maybe you and him just have different ideas of what it takes to be a "good guy"?

Although dismissing the official lore as "NC propaganda" is a little odd. It is the lore after all. Was that video that the Genudine Security personnel got from that secretary faked? It's possible I guess. But to write the entire thing off uncritically as "NC propaganda" doesn't seem to be the right way to go about it.

It may be true that the NC is, according to a full accounting of the lore, objectively the morally-correct faction.

That really is a symptom of the problem, not something that shuts down the OP's argument.

NC is portrayed in too friendly a light, more of the corporate greed and heartlessness needs to shine through.

I agree. The lore pretty much favors the NC at this point. But it should be more balanced.

I think though the problem is that although each faction can be made out to be both good and bad, some good traits are just going to be so much more attractive to an audience from a Western democracy. Whereas people from another culture may be drawn more to a different faction.

I would suspect that the TR may be popular in China and Russia beyond simply "red". This is perhaps because those other countries can understand and appreciate the entire "strength through unity" and the "sacrifice yourself for the greater good" themes of the TR. Simply based on their history and culture, those individuals may see the world through a slightly different lens, where order trumps chaos. If they read that the TR had to enact martial law in order to restore order, people from that culture may not have as much a problem with it. Or if they read that the TR forbade organized political resistance and arrested leaders of opposing political parties, then to them that's just another Monday. Maybe that would endear them to the TR even more because that's the "right" way to handle political disorder.

But take those same themes to the West and you get a negative reaction. The "order over chaos" might have Americans rooting for more chaos than order (replace "chaos" with "freedom"). We tend to react over here to imprisonment without trial and martial law a lot more negatively. We appreciate the freedom to meet with whoever we want and to say whatever we want without official repercussions.

And the VS... are just weird. I don't know who they'd really appeal to. The religious types? The geeks and nerds (which really would make them a strong faction)?

It's just that for a Western audience, it's really difficult to make the TR relatable as the "good guys".

What's wrong with transhumanism? Sort of an inevitability. One could argue that our tool use for thousands of years has always been a light form of transhumanism, and it's grown as those tools have improved.

For me it's the bizarre religious undertones that make the VS weird. Also just seems out of place for a truly science-focused group.

..well said...I've never gotten the impression that we're a hive mind beside being like minded individuals; ; "acadmics ' and scientists and what not- would the extent of that...

Also, only the leader really got the visions- there's that, and all the actual Vanu(alien) tech we dug up and are working on, so....

"passionless"...Yea, if that meant mindless........lol,, we'd be more like the borg

i wonder , is it a coincidence that the TR and VS are similar in logic- but also the VS were the TR's scientists....

Someone's a little sensitive. Was just explaining the Vanu Sovereignty from their viewpoint. If hearing someone else describe something offends you so much... well, that's a personal problem.

Real-world technological progress doesn't really have much sway in this argument, since it's clear Planetside's technology is, in many ways, inferior to our own (DARPA recently revealed a video of a target-seeking round that could, in theory, be fired from a machine gun). The fact that the Sovereignty fighting so strongly for transhumanism, even when the technological limitations are much greater than they seem to be in reality, only makes them all the more heroic in my opinion.

As for the cult worship, that stems mostly from the entire Vanu civilization apparently vanishing into thin air. The Sovereignty takes this as a sign of their transcendence of physical form through superior technology, and aims to do the same. After all, it's entirely possible that the ancient Vanu are, in fact, watching over the soldiers of Auraxis - we simply lack the technological means to observe them. If that's the case, then would it not be wise to try and gain their favor?

I guess it's two things for me:

1) Speed. So far the evolution of human biology and society has been relatively slow paced. Humans just need some time to get used to thing, to work out new legal and social constructions to account for advances in technology and biology. Take for example how we're still trying to grapple with issues like "internet privacy" and "bioethics". In my opinion the VS are simply pushing things too quickly. I doubt the NC or TR are against advancing the human race, even through such unnatural things as genetic engineering. Just the speed of it all scares them.

2) Direction. Humans, nature, or economic forces have usually been the drivers of the development of human society, technology, or institutions. But at the end it's something that humans have had a lot of input into. Whereas the VS have placed their faith in some long-dead alien race, that for all we know want us dead as well out of some petty revenge or something. Or maybe it's a bad sign because if the Vanu went extinct then it's probably not advisable that we follow in their footsteps.

The problem with transhumanism is why do we need to become something other than human? The NC and the TR aren't against improving our species, but we'd still like to remain human at the end of the day.

What I mean is that the lore shows that anyone who has had contact with any form of Vanu technology, or just any artifact, become this ultra pious worshiper of whatever entity it is.

As far as I see it, the VS are like the Borg, the technology took over their minds somehow, idk, it's a video game, some psychic garbage. But whatever it did, it turned those people into die hard worshiping drones of whatever Vanu is.

And where the TR comes in, yeah they recruited them, but if they had contact with the same technology, possibly during the recruitment, or at some point, they probably eventually were dragged into it.

When I say it says they were passionless, there's only 3 possibilities I can think of. 1-They are the borg, there's nothing there in each person, just a vessel with memories to contribute to the Vanu's technological singularity, they aren't even capable of thinking independently, all thoughts are just to ensure the survival and usefulness of the "drone" Whatever Vanu is, it's the controller.

2-They are independent minds, who modified themselves to no longer have fear, and have an incredible level of patience, and ability to remain calm. Something we ourselves aren't very far from achieving, yay trans-humanism!

3-The bodies have no real controller, what I mean is, what if the VS soldiers like the clones from Star Wars, what if the actual Vanu scientists transferred their consciousness to an artificial brain, like a quantum computer? Maybe to some small extent they control their biological soldiers, but probably just to direct them to a place that will be attacked or defended. I mean if the VS are obsessed about transcending, and immortality, then I think they took the path to God-hood, and uploaded their consciousness, basically like taking your "soul" and moving it to a new carrier, leaving a comatose body behind, or at least that's how I imagine it'd go irl. We'll see within 30-40 years, so excited to find out. Anyway, the soldiers we see could be just drones made for combat, while the true VS members are safe in whatever base they live in, biologically altered, or not even human anymore.

But that's my guess. The TR and NC are independent minds, that much is certain, but with the VS, it's a bit more troubling considering the strange obsession in the lore.

I'm not sure their level of scientific advancement actually factors into it. Whether you're the guy attempting to make a hammer, or the guy attempting to give people bionic limbs, you're developing technology which replaces human work with the work of our inventions, and it's all basically the same thing. It's just that at the higher end we give it a fancy name like transhumanism.

And VS' reaction to Vanus' disappearance is basically why I'm criticizing them. The Vanu disappear and VS are like, "Lack of evidence is evidence of transcendence, right?!" and all the real scientists just /facepalm.

When I see that screen, I think, "Look at those NC *******, gloriously fleeing in after getting their *** beat... how heroic."

Well you're not using your own human voice to communicate to me, you're doing it through the internet. Why did you choose to do that? It's the same deal with all tools humans use to offload work off of themselves.

Maybe there's a dictionary definition of exactly what constitutes transhumanism, but to me it's all just an extension of the gradual process by which we've offloaded work onto our tools for thousands of years. It's an arbitrary point on a very long line of progress.

I definitely agree that progress which happens too rapidly can be dangerous. And as I mentioned in the other post, the VS' faith in Vanu's direction is why I consider them rather unscientific as a faction.

There's often a debate on the topic of prisons about Punishment vs Rehabilitation, and a lot of people think that they are mutually exclusive, that you can't have both(I do not buy that however).

I think some of the major reasons for higher re offense rate in the US are because of social, cultural & economic mobility issues, rather than their living conditions & luxury items.

Criminals simply spend too much time with.... criminals, reinforcing their underground culture, and lack of ability to integrate into society leaves them with a very obvious route. It's a recipe for disaster, whether their prison beds be made of silk or rock regardless