Why not show the Tr and VS in more positive light?

And again, It doesn't say what Waterson was planning. You filled it in the way you wanted.

The same way I could say. The fact that MOST of the people were in prison had ties to the NC show there were working together with the terrorist groups from the same article.

Not really. I pointed out that it could have been a gas explosion and that Waterson's plan might have involved cake. But we both know that's pretty ridiculous, because all the evidence does point to one conclusion.

In other words you don't need all the blanks filled to draw a well-informed conclusion. Essentially if we were looking at a murder case and we had evidence that the suspect planned to "remove" the victim right before the murder, enlisted help by threatening to murder someone else, and planned to blame the murder on a third party (which blame was later put on), then we could probably still convict them, at the very least of conspiracy to commit murder. Even if we didn't know exactly what the "plan" was.

I'm not sure I understand your claim here. Can you clarify it please?

• Personally I have a difficult time seeing eugenics as a legitimate concern since my impression is that poorer classes are producing far more offspring per person than upper classes. But I don't have much information on the subject and would love to be educated by stronger evidence.
• The related concern I do see is preferential treatment based on genetics.
• Humans have always pursued longer lives. The rich have always been better at it. Transhumanism will be no different. The fact that it'd be great if social/economic reforms improved the fairness to our ability to pursue longer lives is separate from a discussion on transhumanism.
• "Those same people" is a dangerous generalization of fear-mongering.
• As for population reduction? Unless you think earth can support an infinite number of humans, presumably you'd agree that at some point (and we might dramatically call this "endgame") we'll want to stop filling the earth with more humans. You might also realize that the fewer people exist, the less stress we put on the planet's finite resources and our ability to extract them.
  • The main argument in favor of population growth is that population is power and nations aren't at perfect peace with one another, so power accumulation is still relevant.
• The concerns of malicious use of technology are just an extension of concerns we've had for decades or longer, and should continue to be taken seriously, but it's not like they're going to stop us from inventing things that make our lives easier.

WE ARE TR!! WE ARE TR!! WE ARE TR!! Must be the beer!! WE ARE TR!!

No that is YOUR opinion. A conclusion you choose to draw just because one guy was plotting and then he happened to die. That is not proof. His plot could have been to discredit and embarrassed by leaking something and then replace him. It could have been to shoot him while he was alone.

The guys talking clearly state that the prisons are filling up and most of the people in them have ties to the NC. So like wise it easy to figure out that the NC are using under handed tactics to help undermined the government while we are jumping to conclusions


If you are going to argue all the circumstantial evidence against the TR is damning and all the NC prisons are innocent sweet hearts who the TR cut a bad deal for no reason......Your bias is too strong for the NC.

Sure... except discrediting Connery isn't something that Waterson can "pin" on the NC.

Furthermore we know whatever Waterson has planned is pretty bad, because he has to threaten the lives of Miller's family in order to make Miller go along with it. I mean if it was just discrediting Connery, you certainly don't need Miller's help to do that, and you definitely don't need to threaten to kill people to get it done.

What happened was Waterson said, "I've got this plan to remove Connery and pin the blame on the NC. Then I'll take over."

Later Connery is removed and the blame is pinned on the NC. And Waterson takes over.

I mean maybe Waterson is the luckiest guy in the universe and things just happen to work out for him exactly as he plans without him lifting a finger. And maybe I can somehow bake a chocolate cake by planning it and just have the cake magically appear on my dinner table!

I think any summary of the lore should include the events of "Conspiracy". If it makes you happy we can add in a disclaimer that reads, "NOTE: We don't actually know what Waterson's plan is". But I think most people with half a brain can come to the proper conclusion unless they really want to read things differently.

I reread "Conspiracy" and I can't find anything related to what you're trying to say. Can you provide a direct quote that backs up your point?