LIBERATOR

The point is this.

Libs are not supposed be able to, reliably take on ESFs.

Yes, it's true that doing so is fun and highly skilled. It also requires true team work and understanding between gunner and pilot to be truly devastating.

Problem is, the ESFs are supposed to the Libs counter, oh and what are they doing? Ground pounding! Why? Well, one of their main targets, one shots them reliably out of the sky. Ergo, even 2/3 average ESF pilots will massively struggle against 1 decent lib crew.

So, balancing air becomes "well nothing is doing the job they are supposed to be doing, so how the h*ll do we balance it?".

This is all part of trying to get that right.

P.S. I would also expect Gals to be come higher value targets in the near future.

Duster libs can't. Zepher libs can't. Dalton libs might (with enough luck/good enough gunner). Shredder libs might (provided the ESF doesn't run away and the pilot's good at offering angles for extended periods of time on agile targets).

I don't think relegating Libs to only attack ground targets with their belly guns is going to help anything other than drive them to farm spawns/ground at already zerged bases. Personally I'd much rather see them fighting other air.

I wish they'd expand on the mission system and give people huge experience boosts for hunting down and taking out high-score air targets to encourage more air-to-air.

That's my point. The lib is barely worth pulling for its own merits anymore. It's outclassed by just about anything else. Do you think you would have done less with a galaxy?

I think I would have done much more if I'd pulled a Shredder or a Dalton or a Zephyr. That's my point, the Lib is still OP in the right hands, even if it's armed with the Duster.

A galaxy would have been very similar results to what I posted methinks.

You had primarily infantry targets, yeah? The shredder probably would have done well, the dalton however is pretty damn hard to use against infantry now, and the zephyr isn't really all that good anymore unless you can stay in an area for a while. Besides, a 12-24 fight is hardly representative of a challenging battle for a lib. Taking out tower AA turrets rarely ends the AA presence at a base, except for against the most hapless of foes. The lib will always be 'OP' in that it flies and some people can't/won't counter it. In any large, balanced fight, it's hard to get anything done, let alone anything you could do with something else.

And you flew away because you got shot by a dumbfire, right? I promise you it wouldn't have gone the same.

Oh, I didn't think the nerf would have any impact at all so I 'm encouraged.

Still, I always thought it would be nigh on an impossible task balancing the lib so that's it's ok in large fights and also nor over-whelming in small fights - without adding extra cover on bases that already have been updated several times.

The lib as was needed to be nerfed, but I'd mostly prefer bases to be upgraded (yet again).

The lib nerfs happened because the forums convinced SOE that it was the weapon's fault. The players have nothing to do with what happens in the game. Victims don't put themselves in poor positions, and killers never put themselves in good positions. Everything that happens is THE GAME'S fault.

I look at what nerf-warriors have wrought upon this game, and I stand humiliated before the gaming world.

I don't mind the lib nerf because it doesn't effect my playstyle with the liberator. What saddens me is how many *** holes are here making bad comments like these.

This is a very self-centered thing to say.

Balance is good for the game. It is what keeps the game healthy and keeps the playerbase happy. If any player has any interest in keeping this game alive and healthy then they should be willing to make compromises and sacrifices if some of their gear is found to be unbalanced.

The only vehicle in this game that has just one purpose is the skyguard, and everyone knows its boring as hell to run in this thing. You really want a 3 manned vehicle to have just one purpose while there are only 2 air vehicles in this game to begin with?
If thats the case then ESFs should also no longer be able to even hit infantry and tank on the grounds, nor should tanks be able to even hit aircraft but in the meanwhile SOE keeps releasing weapons like Hornet missiles which goes against what they are actually trying to do with the other vehicles. But on the other hand infantry and MAXes can switch at any terminal in a moments notice to shoot anything and everything they desire.
If SOE keeps nerfing vehicles to force them to choose just one kind of target this game will be dead pretty soon and all thats left will be COD infantry guys on the ground.

I really like the ammo changes. I wish they hadn't nerfed the splash damage of the weapons themselves (except maybe Dalton). With the ammo changes, it gives ESF pilots something to do, since now Libs need leave the safety of their zerg to go back and forth to an ammo tower between bombing runs. You can actually be an interceptor, because now there's something to intercept.

That was so dumb, my head hurts. SOE perfectly knew what they were doing when overbuffed libs, kept it for 3 months, then overnerfed them to calm players.
Its same as with ZOE, iWIN shield, harrassers etc. You and others easymode lovers are supposed to jump on new OP thing, buy relative merchandise in depot, feel proMLG for a while, then leave it for another shiny. If it was not for that, 1 week of rolling OP stuff would be enough to notice it and nerf a bit, watch for a week, then nerf some more until its in line with other doohickeys.

And know what? It works, so SOE gonna do that again and again. You cant do a thing about that. Only way to stop that is make majority of easymode ppl stop throwing money at another 3-months crutch.

But thats just the thing, now libs need to stay with the zerg for safety since they suck at air combat, which will only enforce libs to do more infantry and spawn camping even more.
They took away the versatility of the lib in hopes of stopping the farms but they only made the issue worse imo.

The thing about the liberator, It was only found to be unbalanced after it got nerfed in the liberator update.

But I'm try not being selfish, I'm just trying to say that posts like those are a disease to the community and shouldn't be there.

This doesn't make sense. Please explain.

It means that with this large amount of ammo reduction the lib is limited to ground only, this is just absurd because its an aircraft that needs to be able to defend itself from enemy air and if it even tried to do this then its out of ammo in no time.
In the air you cannot just leave the battle, there are no real front lines and if they want to they can even follow you back to the warpgate.
So in SOEs ultimate wisdom to prevent libs from farming ground, they basically forced libs to be only on ground.

But you will probably just agrue that the lib is supposed to be a bomber anyway without even asking yourself how air combat really works, or back turrets which are absolutely useless (except for the bulldog but thats for ground targets anyway).

So just like the boring skyguard, you want the lib to be ground only?
If your answer is yes, then how about ESFs shooting ground or tanks sniping in the air, if all vehicles become go though this same process we will be in a truly boring game where infantry rules all and vehicle are just there to fill up empty space without any real purpose.

An MBT is a 2 man vehicle that can effectively engage just about all targets, stationary and from cover. The liberator is a three man vehicle where one man is either dedicated to protecting the lib from air (essential without air dominance) or attacking infantry only. The belly gun has some options, but the main guns in their current iteration are more limited than their MBT counterparts by a fair margin, by way of the platform they're on. The nosegun is an ambush weapon that requires the pilot to put his craft into danger, or it's useless.

Again, an MBT, though specialized, can use his tank cannon for everything but attacking air (on flat terrain), and is able to engage from positions where it is safe to do so. If main gun is lacking in something, the secondary can be equipped with weapons that can deal with a wide range of targets. The lib is currently specialized to be able to effectively engage one kind of ground target safely, or infantry and vehicles but not air, while being the most attention grabbing target on the battlefield that WILL be engaged by all varieties of weaponry. An MBT can effectively kill a lock on or MAX with AP rounds, provided he's in cover. The new dalton is worthless against infantry and near worthless against MAX's for all but the most accurate gunners on the most stationary targets. The zephyr takes half a magazine to kill an infantryman with splash damage and is still mediocre against vehicles. The shredder is good, but requires a more experienced pilot and gunner to use effectively. The duster is a terrible weapon, all the time.

The lib gets engaged by every kind of target, that can pop up from anywhere in any number. It worked before because it could defend itself against it's counters for long enough to escape a run. Now it's been railroaded into such a narrow role, it can't keep itself alive in a fight, until the enemy has been beaten past where they can compete. The lib is a superfluous tool now. There are few reasons why you'd be recommended to pull it over another vehicle.

This, liberators were out of control in the amount of damage and resistance they brought to the field. They are more maneuverable thank tanks, can shell the hell out of a base or ground vehicles and have great AA abilities a long with the fact they had high resistances? No thanks.

Badname707 said it perfectly.

Some of us actually enjoy swatting at aircraft.