LIBERATOR

Noted the bolded word. Yes it takes some degree of skill to be able to gun a flying tank, Oh the horror of aiming and fire discipline. Like you know, a Tank.

check out tanks

Guess you have never flown upside down and knocked a ESF out the sky with dalton !!

That's proof of imbalance, not balance. Good job attacking your own argument! Also, it's really not hard to do with the shredder.

Hitting something from above is much easier than trying to hit head-on. The hitbox is much larger by comparison, your shots are affected by drop much less, and there's much less cover.

I think the main problem was that the Shredder was too good for being a general purpose weapon. And the fact that it's sort of "without a niche" now that they have 4 different belly guns for the Liberator.

See, with tanks we get HE, HEAT, and AP. HE is for infantry, AP is for tanks, and HEAT is your general purpose round. It's not as good against tanks, and not as good against infantry, but kinda mediocre in all three.

With Liberator equivalents, it used to be that HE was the Zephyr, HEAT was the Shredder, and AP was the Dalton.

And then they added the Duster, which became the new HE equivalent. So the Zephyr got turned into the general purpose weapon, the Dalton stayed AP, and the Shredder... was left without a role really. I guess it could be a second HEAT type general purpose weapon, but why have two?

I guess they could make the Shredder the equivalent of the Skyguard (which it sort of is) and give it an AA role, but that would probably go counter to what Liberators are supposed to be.

Liberators actually got the better treatment than tanks... and SOE dropped off many of the proposed changes from the table.

1) Liberator guns are no longer getting a velocity decrease.
2) The Tank Buster is untouched
3) The Bulldog is untouched
4) Composite Armor is untouched

Whereas all the tank options at this point are still on the table.

As usual, the pilots complain the loudest, so while further tank nerfs are incoming, the Liberators escaped most of the proposed changes to bring it in line.

I have. That isn't any significant amount of coordination. That is the pilot doing their job and the gunner doing theirs.

The most coordination you need to do that is communicating where the enemy is.

I did about a few hours ago with a Duster



Dalton is y'know, for hitting GROUND targets. Sure it'll annihilate any air targets you can hit, but it's meant for.. y'know. GROUND targets. Having 40 rounds puts you on part with tanks who also tend to knock ESFs out of the sky. And they don't even fly!

Except that a tank now has more ammo then a lib and like I said before, you need to shoot with the shredder at a fast moving ESF that's turning all over the place.
Your comment makes no sense, did you even fly with the lib after the patch went live to notice how little ammo it actually has and how it impact the air combat drastically?
SOE intended to make the lib farm less infantry, yet somehow its biggest nerf was the libs ability to fight in the air with other aircraft.

A tank can't fly at over 200KPH. A tank has to slowly drive out of the battle and around terrain to resupply unless there just so happens to be an ammo Sunderer nearby (which aircraft can also use in the right situations).

Don't be silly, I have killed ESFs with carbines lol.

It does have less ammo. I treat it the same way I do my Vanguard, I strike, then I resupply, i strike, then I resupply, Heck, i've even landed or hovered next to an Ammo Sundy - like I do with my Vanguard.

I have like 32 rounds in my Titan AP and that lasts me a good long time. The trick is to not be super aggressive and take all kinds of foolish shots like you would you had, say, 80 in reserve of insta kill doom cannons or an AR and an ammo pack.

Hold off, strike them where they're vulnerable when it's shown, make your shots count. It's the refrain of all AP weapons in the entire game. Now the Dalton loses its magical exception status. Good. You've got a third seat with tons of explosive ordinance if you're so worried about not hitting a target constantly.

Composite is unaffected from the nerf and the resist to tank rounds is now exactly what it was since release.

It takes you 20 seconds to re-arm. Your platform was never intended to just sit there, invincible and spamming anti-everything rounds at all targets.

Here's the entirety of the nerfs if you aren't terrible:

- Gotta spend 10 seconds getting ammo every 3-4 minutes, maybe.
- Can't just get somewhat near the target with your dedicated AP gun and kill it outright

Excuse me while I shed all of the tears

Best part is, the Dalton got a buff if you aren't terrible, because the direct damage was buffed. Sorry you've gotta score direct hits to kill heavily armored tanks extremely quickly but now you've either gotta get close or get good. Have fun!

I'm going to be honest, I only read the first post.

He's wrong, libs aren't that bad off, you just can't fly like an idiot (hover) much anymore.

My God you guys are just unbelievably ignorant, go play with the lib already and then come back to comment, at leas tthen you will notice the difference in ammo.
1. In air to air combat the lib doesnt even hit half of its bullets on the target.
2. It now has even less ammo then a tank.
3. Tanks usually have an ammo sundy right next door.
4. Lib having to land every few minutes is boring and dull, right now your flying more back and forth just to get ammo then actually fighting, not to mention every time you land for ammo is a moment you stand still and you can possibly die to a different number of things.

I believe they stated that this was only the first round of nerfs to the Lib.

ooh! ooh! Dont forget we have to worry about little c4 fairies that like to drop fancy fiery presents of doom on our arses

...
1. Libs have the tank buster the highest dps in the game. Also has a cannon that one shots aircraft (that everyone and their mother has). ive been one shotted. and ive been missled to death by hyenas. no lib is going to let you go above them unless they suck. Which means you only need half the shots anyways to hit. 1/2 shots still kills me.
2. Well duh. Its a flying platform that has machinery that takes up plenty of space and still has room for a 150mike mike. A tank needs an engine, armor, guns and treads/hover magic.
3. FALSE oh god no you dont play tank at all...
4. Er meh gerd driving a klick and a half to refill ur ammo is so hard... Unless u can fly 200+kph and ignore terrain. You also have an autolock tailgun... Just throwin it out there

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.

Encouraging the ammo capacity nerfs is the best frickin possible thing you can do as a Lib pilot.

"Patho, why are you so dumb that you think this would help at all? You obviously don't fly Libs at all you scumbucket!"

I don't, really. But I have common sense.

Let's take the two points most sensible people have agreed are true.

1) Libs are ruining small fights.
2) Libs are having major problems in larger fights.

Libs ruin small fights because of suppression capability and difficulty to kill via speed and tankiness. Libs suck in large fights because of concentrated AA DPS and their firepower not offering enough potential reward for the risk that larger fights represent.

Besides ammo cap reduction, what changes can we make to try to fix both 1 and 2 knowing the causes most likely related to each?

Make the Lib slower! Well, some acceleration nerfs would make hover and pummel more dangerous, and it at least seems weird to me that the Lib can outrun an ESF. It also doesn't hurt flyovers in dangerous areas, but it doesn't help the weakness of Libs in large fights. So maybe something to think about it, but it's not a solution to both 1 and 2.

Make the Lib's weapons weaker and inaccurate! I don't really like this, either. A tanky, fast pea shooter will still be aggravating in small fights, and again, Libs are weaker in big fights.

Make the Lib easier to kill! Again, handles the small fights while making the large fight situation worse.

Make the Lib cost more resources! This one is especially useless. Small fights won't result in enough deaths to matter, and it makes large fights even more taxing.

Just make ESFs massacre every Lib! Changes in this vein include removing the ability of the Lib to go belly up or giving it strong bottom armor and weak top armor. Not being able to go belly up would help somewhat with small fights, but the only way to do it is to make it even stronger against ground assaults. In larger fights, the Lib is then even more easily massacred by air in a place where air is more likely to be present, and tankiness can only do so much against concentrated fire.

Then we get to lowering the ammo cap while, if I was making the decisions, making the weapons more "bomber" and less "gunship". Small fights will at least then get some relief when the ammo is burned through, ammo Sundys can serve as counterable forward resupply points, and they could even look at giving the Galaxy air support tools to spruce up the air meta. Those same steps can then be taken in large fights, often more easily due to numbers, while the more bursty damage of the low ammo weapons means rewards are feasible for the risk of entering a heavily contested area.

So, by supporting a focus on tweaking the ammo down for reasonable gains in other areas (namely burst firepower), Libs scale more properly. Yes, the playstyle will be different than the current Lib incarnation. I think that might be kind of the point.

1) If you hit with half your rounds you're the most accurate platform in the game
2) Not as much =/= not enough
3a) No they don't
3b) If they do have one nearby it takes them longer to get to it than it does for you to fly 200m to the nearest airpad or GASP, ammo sundy, because you can refill off them as well and they show up on your minimap as well
4) Yeah, I bet not having 100% uptime is pretty dull. Not having a sidearm that blows up Liberators with a single round is pretty dull too