[Guide] The Liberator - 10 reasons for why it is a poor design

I even hate it when Libs appear on our side and start to camp enemy spawn. From then, it becomes very boring as the enemy will not leave spawn.

The Lib should be totally redesigned or removed from the game.

ah yes many hours in both of them - they don't feel too op, yes they will wreck an area and they are hard to kill. then again each game needs that role.

11. Liberators are only acceptable through the 300m render distance

Okay, so, anyone here can say that render distance limit isn't a good thing, and that in a ideal world with ideal technology, every soldier would render no matter the distance, right ? You wouldn't have those weird situations of getting hit/locked out of render distance, you wouldn't have soldiers suddenly popping in open field...

The Liberator wouldn't fit in this ideal world. It would stay at flight ceiling, randomly bombing the base from above and rack up kills at safe distance from AA.

You can talk about the range on flak as long as you want, bit if you Just bring as many liberators as you would tanks you basically can't lose. On Connery it's come to the point where I'm done theorycrafting and arguing balance, I just want it to stop. Nerf Libs so there will be less libs.

This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of.

I personally think the biggest argument against libs being "just use an ESF on it" is kinda void. Any lib pilot and gunner worth their salt will just flip over and gun you down with 1 shot. Sure, not every Lib will do that but 90% of them will, and trying to shoot them from long range with a fighters gun won't work when they do it, as they accelerate away at high speed and the dalton or shredder just tears you from the sky even at extreme range. A gunship is usually a slow lumbering aircraft, not something as maneuverable as a fighter craft able to keep flying even though its bottom end is facing towards the sky. If a Lib flips on its back it should plummet to earth and die like a Galaxy if it tried it.

Post your MLG Liberator stats then?

When I say hunt vehicles, I mean fly face first into the biggest tank zergs to take them out, not flitting around the outskirts of Esamir at 2:00 A.M. waiting for that lone Lightning to kill.

The lib is a joke in this game, and to a certain extent so is the galaxy.

Being able to aim that belly gun in any direction: PS1, it could only drop two different types of bombs directly below it, and was used for carpet bombing. Something that has been lost in translation for some reason for PS2. The guns should lock when the lib rolls and the gun faces anything other than the ground. There is a front and rear cannon to deal with enemy air. Just like PS1.

Dalton and zephyr are a joke especially with thermal.

Comp armour/auto rep/fire suppresion/afterburn - lib basically never has to leave its camping, even ifg it sustains damage it can flee and be back in a minute or so. The amount of lock on ground lockets they can take is unreal.

However this isnt what actually annoys me the most:

In PS1 if you landed an aircraft on anything other than a designated air pad, you got a warning telling you your plane would deconstruct in 10 secs or so. Failure to move and bye bye aircraft. Implementing this to PS2 would go some way to stopping the current "park a bulldog gal facing a spawn" tactic.

There are far too many ways to camp spawns, and the only two that drives me nuts are gals and libs doing it.

That's just low man. By all means, attack the argument. But attacking the arguee? I was under the impression you and the guys in WASP were decent blokes which was part of the fun in fighting you when we crossed paths. But seeing this smack talk is just disappointing out of you. I thought you gents were better than that.

Great post, pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with the liberator. Liberators ruin or end more fights than anything else in the game by far. When attacking bases they just farm the spawn room buildings so the defenders can't fight, and when defending they just blow up any sundys right away instantly ending the fight.

I feel the same. When you are assaulting a base it's nice with air support and all, however I think it also often tends to really limit the fun of the fight for the guys on the ground on both sides.

The air support vehicles will pretty much force the enemy to stay inside the spawn room, as they cannot exit any other way than the doors and if they do, they will be bombed or lolpodded back to the stone age, unless you are in a pretty decently sized fight (at least 24 people per side).

And if I'm on the inside of the spawn room as a defender and we don't have enough people to both do Anti Air and actually break out without being mowed down, I'll simply just find another fight - spawn camping is just as boring from the inside of the shields as from the outside.

I don't think this specifically is a Liberator problem though, more an issue of annoyingly flawed base design.

I want to thank whoever bumped this month-old thread.

My tears-o-meter was running low.

11.Most of the 10 points entirely depend on the communication and skill level of both the pilot and gunner

^-That.

The liberator isn't a bad concept, but considering it's primary use by the players, it is too powerful. It wouldn't be bad if people didn't always take the path of least resistance. What I mean is that they buff things to perform better in desired roles, but people will use their new benefits to aid them in their preferred role, which is mostly in smaller, more survivable fights.

If you choose to stick with the zerg or are always in large fights then liberators wouldn't be a problem because you probably have majority pop and are capable of dealing with them or have enough distractions to where it is unlikely that you will be the target. I choose to play in areas where my faction needs help the most, not where I can get an easy win or farm my way to certs. When you have a fight that you are outnumbered in then they become way too powerful, never mind if it is a small to medium fight, then they are just OP. And to think that you or anyone should always stick to large fights or that people can't play in small squads isn't realistic. To think that something should be able to be that survivable or destructive because you spent resources isn't realistic. Did you do anything special to earn those resources?

Ultimately this is a game. Having fun is the priority for most people and when you are required to dedicate your time and efforts to prevent someone from ruining your fun then how much are you having? Liberators are distractions, I rarely see them make meaningful contributions to fights. I mostly see libs being the straw that broke the defender's back or the bully in the sky that stole the fun and kills away from those of us on the ground.

I always hear the term combined arms in these discussions about vehicles but it was always my opinion that combined arms means supporting other types of units and relying on their support to achieve a goal. I don't see where the liberator relies on anything other than itself. SOE named the vehicle appropriately, I see more liberators than anything else who are independent and don't rely on their faction's movement or strength to do well, even if it isn't their fight. The vehicle is balanced to succeed in large battles but they're more common in smaller ones, which should have been the first clue as to why they were more than fine before. If you give the average person a million dollars then it probably won't last them very long. They will blow it and eventually be broke. People are more likely to do what they want even if they are hurting themselves in the long run. Google statistics and lottery winners. Giving people the tools to complete a task but not clearly defining that task is grounds for failure, which is what has happened with the liberator.

1. New players have no counter
Unlocking both busters for new players would be a good idea or a lock on for heavy.
Agreed.


2. Liberator vs. Infantry:
They wont turn any points though


3. The Liberator against vehicles:
A good ESF will win vs the very best lib teams 90% of the time.

and a dalton never killed a tank in 3 shots
But the shredder at close range can kill in about same time.


4. The Liberator against a squad:
a lib flying in and out fireing a few shots before having to run off for a repair dosent really turn any battles.......its the same for every ESF.


5. The Liberator is the only vehicle in the game with high speed, high mitigation and high damage.
In comparison:

Really its Just the dalton that needs to be nerfed extreme in infantry damage.
(shredder might still be a problem but that can be balanced a lot since it just has ******** stats.)


6. The Liberator can damage you without you being able to do damage to it.
not true for infantry check the rendering distances

And you know skygaurds and AA towers acturlly can shoot at a LIB before they even render for the lib.
So you kinda got that the other way around.


7. The Liberator mechanics are made for farming:
If you go near what could be considered a Zerg fight you mostly die in first pass

And welll there was suppose to be 3 diffrent empire spercific weps.......But other 2 was a mess
I guess instead of TR getting screwed over we just all got the useless duster


8. The Liberator is exceptionally good at spawncamping.
true unless yyou know what to do.

But yea better AA weapons for noobs.


9. It is the only vehicle where the high dps weapon is manned by another player
yes this was SOE dumb from day one everyone told em to make a 3 man tank but they wanted to be battlefield.......nice one SOE.

(censored thoughts )




10. The Liberator indirectly reduces the quality of the game
Not sure this is always true like when the harasser was silly over powered it was fun as hell.
But now.........i would not waste the time of day on a harasser.

I think its a bigger problem that every time something can be considered "overpowered" since it has a high skill celling is even bigger game destroyer.
Dont nerf things that take skill give someone else the skill celling to compete on the same level in diffrent ways.

If you build a superior weapon in real life you build a counter you dont beg the enemy to change it

The liberator shouldn't have a Tankbuster.......... it makes no sense balance and vehicle design wise....

Unless the liberator is within line of sight of a one way spawn shield a burster max isn't going to do ****. Lock ons are never going to threaten a liberator on their own.

They don't have to, if a point is outside and a liberator is unable to be dislodged it theoretically takes only one guy additional guy to go and flip the point. That's technically true of any vehicle but in practice a liberator can often make it happen.

Because battles are always a series of 1v1s...

No what usually happens is during the 90 seconds it takes for an ESF to nosegun down a liberator that ESF gets jumped by someone who could have been halfway across the continent. And no, the ESF probably isn't going to get help.

Yeah, if you only bring one. A 12 man outfit squad can bring six.

The liberator is not a high skill ceiling vehicle. So many people say this, whether they've convinced themselves of their talent to explain their lopsided score, or the just have delusions of grandeur, I can't say.

What is anyone supposed to do with this advice short of hacking the game?

I think they need to redesign the liberator,rather than just knock a few numbers around.

They need to limit the pilot and belly positions to specific roles.
1.Pilot flies and gets AA focused guns.(No more ESF style play with tank busters)
2.Belly gunner attacks the ground.
3.Tail gunner can pick w/e they want.

Make the front take increased damage to make it more dangerous for low flying/hovering liberators.

To help the liberator be useful in large fights they can give it an accurate belly gun that drops moderately slow falling bombs that do high damage. This won't be effective for small battles or picking off single vehicles,but it will be effective against large slow moving vehicle zergs and parked sunderers that can't disperse easily. And to help them survive they give it a stronger zoom feature so they accurately fire from high altitudes out of effective flak range. Meaning only air will be a serious threat to them while during high altitude bombing runs.

It can also spend an extended amount of time defying gravity. The issue is Libs and more specifically the Dalton is fantastic against....everything (more so with tank buster). It does take two people to run it. It should not be shot down immediately, but the issue is outside of a major zerg people are forced to pull a vehicle which can only counter ESF's and simply deter Libs or a max suit, which limits your ability to move. At this point I feel like the ONLY legitimate counter to a lib is another lib. Not the most fun.

The gunner of the Harrasser though is using a secondary, not a main gun.

1. I can assure you all it takes is 2 guys that time thier shots and they will easy chase away a lib.
Most people just dont have the team work to make that happen.

But if you ever encounted a orgnanized outfit i can assure you thats what will happen.

2. dont think i recall that ever happening in my 300 hours of flying libs.

3. or the lib gets jumped by another ESF.....that argument goes bouth ways.
Any pilot will know to try and help out a fellow pilot since thats how you keep alive......again just a matter of teamplay instead of people thinking they are freaking rambo.

Are you really complaining since its a team play game??? have you ever notied why people fly in groups

Are you trolling

4. so are you telling me you see 12 man squad flying 6 libs with dusters on a regular basis ?
Since i seen one guy fly a duster once.

And if you dont get christmas lights in your eyes at the idea of an air zerg.
Since if people react to that its free points falling from the sky!

Can make some amazing scores per min on that behalf.
So yea!! Please do that again are you trolling ?

10 so why dont everyone just go fly them? and why do you die within 45 secs on the general random lib pilot?

It was a question about the game mentality you have were everything needs to get nerfed.
were i think they should give better counters.

all your gonna do when your nerf something is give a big **** you to the people that used time an effort on that job.
when you could rewards someone else by giving a counter instead of punishment.
if you didten know humans respond better to rewards.as opposed to getting punished for something.