a look at the new lynx and the new TR HC1 Cougar

Yeah i took a look at it today, then did the math :/

In its current form despite it being a 167/125 (1769/1180 DPS) weapon it has

• less min AND max DPS than the old Lynx (1907/1333)
• less min AND max DPS than the new Lynx (1894/1515)
• less min/max DPS than Jag AND default TRAC5 (1788/1400)
• despite being 167 its available damage per mag is down to an average 4165 (Old Lynx 4850, New Lynx 4500, Jag 5100). Thats down by a massive 23% against the Jag/default TRAC5.
• its saddled with chunky leftward NC recoil (all the other TR carbines pull right)
• the huge first shot multi makes 2x burst mode garbage (you have to aim at the feet/leg area to make sure the second shot actually hits even as close as 40m, infact doing your own bursting in full auto mode is far more efficient).

So despite it being a 167 damage weapon it does less DPS than our current main TR weapons, holds much less Damage per Mag to take into the field, and a heavy recoil making it hard to land even those shots.

Whos going to buy it? Nubs who think 167 means its stronger? Cant think of who else. After trying it in VR I was mildly interested in it. Now? Hell no. Not without some stat changes.

Maybe when ive auraxumed all the other carbines ill pick it up for certs but I wont be rushing out to get it on release.

tl;dr Its worse in EVERY element which matters, even against the free default TRAC5.

Wanted an NC weapon, got an NC weapon with better DPS. Still not happy and arguing it is worse than existing TR carbines. Imagine that.

thank you!

to the nc, and vs player please dont put us all in the boat as those idiots!

as RIctavius said "These are the idiots who don't bother or have a play test account to see for themselves" so please dont listen to those idiots. myself and RIctavius seem to be fine with the way it is.

look MORE TR players not complaining about this gun!

please read above!

yes same here! i love the amc as it is!

THANK YOU DEVS, FOR NOT F***ING WITH THE AMC ! ! !

lastly for everyone says this would be, or that is "OP!" we dont know the numbers, soe has years of data on every weapon, accuracy, in every fight, how many kills befor someone dies, and another 100ish other points of data. again they dont release those numbers, so we dont know, just because you think something is op, or youve been killed with "whatever" however many times, doesnt make something OP. now im not talking about the new guns here! a new gun comes out, it has the best dps, rof, and so on in the game, people just looking at those numbers say OP. but soe looks at their data of the gun, and says it the worst in the game. what would they do then? or better question, what could they do?

TTK-wise though there isn't much if any difference though (if they boost the DPS too far it will simply be too good with that RoF TTK-wise), and the higher RoF is going to make it very forgiving at that range.

It's a very decent boon to have a strong mid range too, the idea that the majority of combat takes place as 10m or under in PS2 is frankly laughable.

The Lynx 2.0 is looking like it will be better than the Lynx 1.0 in pretty much every way, but damage per mag..... and you're complaining about it?

Who cares? Anyone that remotely cared about balance cares.

Er... what?

The Anchor 1670 DPS CQB VS/TR LMGs = 1787 DPS, that is a decent DPS advantage certainly, but the Anchor is still certainly a "high" DPS LMG.

But is your "logic" here that because the Anchor has less DPS than its competitors that the Lynx 2.0 should have more DPS than its competitors? No makes that sense.

You're more than welcome Major Denial.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0=←&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

Please argue, how leftward is NC recoil...

It is kinda bad, but what is worst is that it is a CQC carbine when all we really needed was a mid/long range weapon (like the Razor GD-23). What we got is carbine version of the cyclone SMG. This, as a weapon, should be changed to focus on accuracy and damage at 50m+. Right now, I can't see a reason to take it over the T5 AMC. It fires too fast and the first shot bloom is too high imo. ANd of course the bad attachment options don't help (ALS and SPA, trade them out for AF and HVA). I doubt it is gonna pass by without being fixed to some extent.

Too many CQC weapons. The TR are going to want a mid-long range carbine like the Razor since we already have enough Close-short and short-mid weapons.

Welcome to NC weapons.

Actually its better than the AF-Merc in DPS.

Actually this weapon is not bad at range.
It has a MV of 470ms, which is pretty decent.
The damage is not bad either.

Lemme do the calculations:-
Cougar:- 1179 DPS at 65m+
AF-Merc:- 1250 DPS at 65m+

The difference is less than 100.

In close range however:-

Cougar:- 1759 DPS
AF-Merc:- 1670 DPS

Not too impressed with the new 167 gun, but I'll find out more once I start testing it a bit, Downloading the update currently.

Hoping they make the Cougar a more long range oriented weapon, Similar to the T5.
The last thing we need as TR is MORE CQC carbines...

The new TR carbine is kind of useless, in my opinion. It gets the 167 damage we've wanted since forever, but in exchange it has ridiculously high damage dropoff, high horizontal recoil and low muzzle velocity. We wanted a viable mid to long range carbine, what we got was just yet another close quarters carbine.

Lower its ROF to 600, increase its muzzle velocity to 525, reduce the horizontal recoil and reduce its damage dropoff by one tier. Also add a 2x reflex scope. Then that gun would actually fill a niche in the TR arsenal. As it stands, it's just more of what we already have in abundance.

I'm not going to bother to read through all the Flame,
but what I expected from a 167 dmg carbine was something to go into the place where the AF-19 Mercenary is, perhaps with a little TR flavor so that it's not to similar, because I think that this is the place where the TR is most lacking.

The Trac-5 is already more of a Close Range Weapon compared the other Faction standard weapons, so is the Trac-5 Burst and S and so are the Jaguar and Lynx.

Then we have the T5 AMC which is the exact opposite. So you can see for yourself what adding diversity should mean, because changing the number from 143 to 167 just doesn't cut it.

Yes, I've tested the Cougar for myself yesterday, with the Devs on Hossin
As mentioned before in this Thread, it gets outperformed by all the other Close Range TR carbines in every single discipline, it's just horrible in its current state.

Suppose you get that, are you sure that all the TR will stop whining on the forums if that happened?

Trust me, if that happens TR will want it to be more TR-like.
Right now it fits about perfectly, its 167 damage with best RoF.

Its not very bad at range either 1179 DPS at 65m (AF merc has 1250 at 65m), and the recoil is not bad either, the forward grip completely removes the slight horizontal recoil.

Personally i would go with ALS, than the FG simply cuz the recoil is not bad on this gun.

I'm starting to realize why SOE's personnel are afraid of working on asymmetric balance. We have a ton of hate-flinging op-calling whiners on all sides.

Agreed. I haven't tried out the Cougar yet, but that is only because I fell madly in love with the new Lynx from the first few shots.

You're acting like we all want it all on one gun. There's nothing wrong with wanting all those options spread out amongst your weapons. Other than no recoil which no one is actually asking for you're just exaggerated to try to make your point. The common request related to recoil for TR is just less horizontal recoil which our guns overall have by far the highest of, and it can't be compensated for like vertical recoil.

NC has the best selection currently.

• High RoF and lowest/tied for lowest TTK CQC weapons

• Highest damage per bullet and most precise mid-long range weapons

• More diversity than any other faction between those two

• High velocity, highest velocity on their CQC weapons in many cases (GD-7F stands out especially)

• Lowest horizontal recoil overall

• Access to low vertical recoil/bloom TR/VS style weapons

• NS weapons give them weapons more similar to TR/VS weapons while TR/VS don't get NC-esque NS weapons

They've had their unique weapons/faction trait, while having equivalents or even superior weapons to the best VS/TR have to offer.

Only thing they genuinely lack is the 750 RoF LMG. Which I'm completely fine with them getting as long as VS and TR are getting the weapons they're really missing. Bringing TR and VS up to par is long overdue.

From someone who Aurax'd the Razor and has been playing TR for the last several months I can tell you that weapon already exists and it is called the AMC.

Also, whatever is on PTS (especially attachment wise) is not necessarily what ends up on live.

I get the whole "more long range carbine options" issue to some extent but honestly I've never had a problem at range with AMC or the default TRAC for that matter. Oh, yeah, you have to burst fire but so does everyone else who wants to use a carbine at range.

The real problem, in my opinion, is that outside the Striker and Vulcan this whole "fun/diversity" shtick just seems like a red herring.

Actually it does feel like 'YOU' want it all in one gun.
SOE is trying to make the TR arsenal more unique by giving 910 RoF guns and 167 damage guns, but all they get from TR players like you is: "This is terrible"

No recoil is the the best case scenario, i used it cuz many TR players call certain guns to have terrible recoil even though its not. For them no recoil is the best possible fix.

The cougar is not a terrible gun. Its still in PTS, and it can use a slight MV increase and an addition of x2 sight.
But that about all it needs.

NC does have the most vertical recoil for less horizontal recoil.
After this patch, the TR will get the highest RoF weapons so that fact about NC will be erased.

Velocity is not what I'm looking for in CQC, but i cant deny that we dont have it. Many VS guns have slightly higher MV on their carbines.

Listen to this man TR. This is what you should want because it's certainly what you need. The archetype of the 167/550 high velocity carbine with some factional tradeoffs is one that is proven effective. Make it 167/577, with standard carbine recoil recovery, and a big FSRM with moderate sustained that would be balanced out by 0/0 up-right recoil like the Razor has. High velocity of course.

Guns like battle or scout rifles would very probably be way too powerful on a class as mobile as the LA, as much as I'd love it.

Same here, it would be more of a reason to pick LA as a go to Assault class instead of Heavy Assault or Medic. Or having a specific weapon class designed for long range geared for LA use. But that is a different topic I suppose.

I was really hoping it'd be a SABR-style long range burst variant with poor accuracy on the move (compared to other burst rifles, which are great on the move but kick so hard they're limited to close-mid) because then I'd play my TR LA a whole lot more, let me tell you. The SABR is such a hilariously lethal gun, good lord.

Of course, imagine how incandescent the TR in this thread would be if they were "only" given a SABR (SABC?)

shhh, people will notice, I meant to say NS but i cant change it now