Long TTK is stupid IMO for a number of reason but the main reason is it favours more people. If you are solo and flank 5 people in a game with 3 second time to kill. This flank manurer is basically meaningless as the 5 people have 3 whole seconds to turn around and start shooting you before a single player dies. This means that with the combine fire of 5 people your flank will end in 0 kills assuming those players are skilled. While with a very short TTK, You can drop a few people before they start hosing you. Another reason is long range combat becomes silly as doing enough damage to actually take someone out before they go behind cover become impossible with my weapons.
Counter strike was more popular. One of Quakes best guns was the rail gun. A 1 shot kill anywhere gun was it not?? I am not saying the TTK should be like Counter stikes. The guy i was talking too said modern FPS hava a shooter TTK then older ones. I don't agree with that.
This is a Straw Man argument. What FPS has a 3 second TTK? None I've ever heard of. PS1 had the longest TTK I've encountered, and we're talking 1 sec for the best weapon, 1.5 sec for most other weapons. People saying they want higher TTK aren't asking for 3 seconds, that would be ridiculous.
Can;t comment specifically with Quake2 as it had a more diverse community platform in that it could differ from server to server and there were even some popular Modded versions that focused on the mechanic even more.... But Q3 arena definitely required a headshot for an OHK with Rail (unless it was an instagib server which were all just complete cesspools and typically only playable for people who lived right NEXT to that particular server) Most people against a longer TTK, have frequently argued that it doesn't actually favor or punish skill any differently. This even included Extra Credits. So you're not really in any better company when you say it made things "more tactical". If you look at Leaderboards, the same exact people still top them that did 8 months ago and even their monthly raitos remain similar. The only thing that's changed is fewer casual TR players are getting the same killstreaks they used to get.... now it's much more VS players getting them.
What does the leaderboard have to do with tactical playing? Dude, I meant people are more careful, use cover more often and can't rely on "I'm a bullet sponge, so I can cross that open field without anyone covering me, lol" mentality, or head on pushes. I don't care how it affects individual skill but what impact is has on the global gameplay and gamepace.
Okay, but you're still wrong as you're attributing to shooting mechanics, that which was always much MORE regulated by base design It's identical to an RTS when talking about "tactics". Slightly changing the dps/hp values on a few units doesn't affect "tactics" as much as map design and battle-flow does.
True, it does not affect it on such a big scale but it's a step in the right direction. OFC if they want to get rid of the zerg mentality in this game, they would have to rework it from ground up, a thing that will never happen. Nonetheless I consider the lower TTK in it's current state to fit PS2 better than the one they had before. Not saying it's perfect, but better.
With my silenced Cerberus and knife, I can shoot someone twice and quick knife for a nearly instant TTK. Most people have no idea what happened until they see the death screen. NC, TR... Sleep tight, kids. >=)
I find it funny that people find it unfeasible that in the future we wouldn't have good armour to allow us to take more hits from weapons. The TTK has always been too low in this game and made it an unskilled shooter typical of the modern shooter genre. Not that anybody cares to hear that, but it is true. But it was livable. The problem of the low TTK has been exacerbated by the introduction of more and more powerful burst fire weapons. Autoshotties and Semiautos were fine, to a certain extent. Adding Pump-Actions made the game about the one-shot. Then you have the MAX suit which is just designed to **** infantry. Those who argue that the TTK is "long" really have no clue what a short TTK is like. Any shorter and you're walking straight into ARMA and Red Orchestra territory, which on a game of Planetside's scale will be a gigantic *********** of whoever sees the enemy first wins(The much smaller scale ARMA and RO are like this already) - which PS2 is already like to a very large extent. If you want to try out a shorter TTK I challenge you to play those game on a 64 player map(Well maybe not ARMA because infantry do jack **** in that game) and tell me you wont get frustrated when you fall over dead because someone barely out of the fog of war shot you twice in the leg. Amplify that by 100. There's your problem. Here's a simple fact for you guys. The higher the TTK the more skill-based the shooting is. If you don't want a skill-based shooter then you don't want higher TTK. That's the long, short and inbetween of it. Regardless of that, there is a point where it can get too high. For example you don't want the TTK in Planetside to be like it was in Quake, where the best players could go weeks of constant playing without ever dying. You want the sweet spot. PS2 is nearly there but is hovering much closer to the ARMA/RO/Modern Shooter spectrum than it really needs to be. I personally think a TTK 3/4 the length of Renegade's would've been great, but to be honest it's far too late in the day now for such fundamental aspects of the game to be changed. SOE doesn't have the manpower(And arguably the competency) to take the time to find that sweet spot, this is something you do in the very early dev stages.
Quake 3 didn't have headshot hitboxes, you are probably thinking of Unreal Tournament, and even there the Lightning gun did not kill on headshot, just did a lot of damage. But these games were designed around 1v1 and a completely different (and wayyyy more skill based) playstyle, so they can't really be used to argue for longer TTK in a game like planetside anyways. As far as planetside type games go, planetside has about the longest TTK around. It takes 3-4 headshots to kill people sometimes lol. I can't believe anyone would ever want to make it take more. Only people tired of getting killed would want such things.
I find it funny that people assume only armor technology advances and weapons don't. Otherwise I'm surprised why there aren't any knights running around. Oh I have. 150+p events on ArmA with ACE are among the best gaming experiences I've ever head. Same goes for the 90p Darkest Hour servers (Red Orchestra mod). Even the mod PR with 200p blew most games out of the water. Wrong. It depends on what kind of gameplay the game has been designed around and what sort of skill it carters for. UT and Quake profited from higher TTK because of the small scale engagement, 1v1 duels and competitive arena matches. My probably most used key in those games was space. If they game had had let me, I would have done 360 all over the walls. Strafing and bunnyhopping, along prediction and aimdrag skills are what defined UT, Quake and Tribes, PS doesn't have those features. On the other scale you had games like CS (always talking about competitive arena shooters, not tac games), with high damage output for guns that required you to master recoil, spread, movement and further most twitch skills. You are comparing apples and oranges with your faulty generalization. The deduction, I quote "Here's a simple fact for you guys. The higher the TTK the more skill-based the shooting is" is as wrong as saying all football players are rich. You always need to consider what the game is designed around, what sort of gamepace does it offer, how and what kind of control you have over your avatar and what the goal is. I wouldn't mind a minimal increase of TTK but definitely not to what it was before.
It's easy to turn that argument around. If it took more headshots to kill someone, that would mean whoever could maintain aim on a person's moving head better would win. In other words, "Only people who are afraid they can't maintain their aim more than a quick spray at the enemy's head would want a short TTK."
Well that's not what would happen lol. It would mean more time for that players team mates to shoot at you before you got the kill. Or it would mean more time for the player to jump around screwing up his hitbox as he ran for cover. Longer TTK is only good in games like quake or unreal tournament with amazing hit registration, and where you have double jumps/bunny hops, shield and health pickups, etc. And no crazy accurate high damage assault rifles. The most competitive and skill based modern shooter ever(CS) has the fastest TTK of modern shooters as well. Not a coincidence. There is no one killing people so fast that they think "Man, I wish these guys had more time to shoot back at me." Its only the people dying that are asking for this change. This game's TTK is crazy long anyways. Like I said earlier, 3 to 4 headshots to kill is ridiculous enough as it is.
Counter Strike does have a short TTK, but the weapons actually reward skill unlike PS2 or CoD:MW. Both of these games have weapons that are fully automatic, low recoil, and high accuracy which increases the ease of landing subsequent headshots. While Counter Strike may technically have a shorter time to kill one actually has to work for it. A similar case is the original Halo:CE the pistol can kill anyone in three shots, but it's semi auto and requires headshots. Most of the time it takes four. If weapons rewarded skill more then the TTK would be lower for good players, but higher for bad players. Whereas now one can barely tell the difference.
As ever, there are people saying it's perfect where it is, people saying it's already too high, and people saying it's too low. Just leave it where it is. People will either play the game or they won't...
TTK is fine right now. SOE has a good balance right now Please OP What guns are you using or dying more to that are causing you to express this opinion? BTW what to know how to lower your deaths? Think & engage. Don't just run in there or cluster around with the zerg.... you have CONTINENTS to play on......
I actually wrote an in depth response but my freaking browser decided to dump it, thus I'll keep it short. If something is unclear, or needs further elaboration, feel free to ask. Following list is not for "all large scale games" but exclusively for Planetside 2. A lower TTK with PS2's current pace and character-environment interaction promotes: Teamplay: Since you alone are an easy prey, even for only one or two enemies, you need to rely on your squad and teammates to take a position, to engage hostiles and to have them as back up. Your self sufficiency in the field is cut down, which is a huge plus considering all the different roles and the scale of this TEAM oriented game. On the other hand successful surprise and flank attacks are actually very devastating, because they can finish you off before you have time to react. If you fail to see one coming, you and your teams situational awareness has failed and you should get punished for it. Defense: In a good and dug in position, you can effectively repel major assaults to some degree, which slows down and sometimes puts swarm attacks to a halt, even for undermanned defenders. Longrange engagements: Before this, PS2 was a pain to participate in long range engagements since it was near impossible to drop any half decent enemy. Only with ridiculous amounts of firepower and loads of infiltrators you had a chance to actually deal any damage. While the infiltrators still dominate on this range, even as normal grunt you have the ability to pick off some people and deal actual damage. Tactical maneuvering: Your own fragility forces you to choose the smartest course of action and route. While the game used to be forgiving when doing some headless actions in the past, like crossing an open field with enemies on the horizon, or throw yourself in the line of fire to pop a nade/rocket/explosive just because of the slightly wonky netcode/lag that promoted dodging on an grand scale and amount of bullets you need to drop a guy, now you have to consider nearly every step you take. If you refuse to do so, you'll be staring at the deploy screen longer than you like.
