Why VS is losing most alerts on Waterson right now

This entire anomaly isn't about cowardance or anything. its about simple behavioral patterns. People did go to these alerts, then they got farmed everywhere they went, so they switched continents. After this happens a few times it becomes a learned behavior, and thus even if th pop disadvantage is manageable the majority of players will continue to opt out.

Our outfit does not need any help organizing I can tell you with confidence that during prime time we are serious contenders in alerts, but were all pretty sick of the off-hours alerts which happen entirely too frequently.

So past defeats have caused them to develop a fear of future defeats, which in turn leads to their avoidance of any confrontation where they may be defeated? Yes, it is a learned behavioral pattern. And it is also cowardice. But then that's just how people are, so meh.

It's funny because when people zerg, they get very, very careless more often than not. So even with less numbers, you can get a lot of certs via that exp bonus from kills. Especially vehicle kills. You might not win the alert itself, but you'll come out ontop in another way and gain some additional exp from what you did manage to hold.

Who gonna cry now about pop issues ?

I think of them in the same way as the people who are afraid to leave the spawn rooms because they may get killed. At least i'm out there trying.

What was the overall population? Because a 54% VS pop on Indar means nothing if overall population of VS is still much lower than NC & TR.

28% VS
34% TR
38% NC

Figures, faction population imbalance continues to be a major problem in this game. Alerts are a great feature, I loved it initially. But population issue just kills it.

And what do you do when your being farmed?

Do you just keep respawning at the same location, and continue to die in the same fashion over and over?
thats what new players do. Eventually they learn that they should just go somewhere else.

Its not avoidance of being defeated. its avoidance of being farmed.
Its the fact that they went on the alert, had a terrible time and said "Thats not for me"
Thats the sum of the situation for the factions that do not have the pop advantage. There is no reason they should sacrifice their enjoyment facing superior odds at the expense of being frequently slaughtered, and I'm saying this on behalf of the majority.

Do you think TR has any problem getting their pub players to bounce onto the alert, and start fighting? (on waterson)
No. those players went there, got great XP, and got a huge bonus for winning. On an alert ALL tr leave to fight.

What about the VS and NC pubs? they went over, got farmed, and left. How many times does a poor newb gotta die before hes just not gonna participate any more?

I'm explaining the reason for the general behavior of the masses on alerts, and the reason why you need to start platoons to organize the pubs who are otherwise reluctant to join, and even then your just not going to achieve the same level of participation.


Blaming the bulk of players still trying to get a good foothold on the game for not partaking in a situation where the odds are against them is ignorant. Alerts favor only the pop leader, and until the simplest of steps to alleviate the situation are implimented this is the way its gonna be.

And again. Had you at least tried to start a platoon and organize the pubbies I would sympathize more. Thats what you need to do. Thats what the outfits do on prime time. We lead the pubbies, and keep them from being farmed. We pick out fights. Hold the positions we can, and fall abck on the ones we can't. The level of work required for us to partake on alerts is far greater then the leading faction (who I'm not blaming for the situation) whos public players happily go to the alert on their own.

Trying would mean leading a platoon. There were likely many public players who would have joined if you gave them the opportunity, and the benefit of the doubt before aboloshing them on a public forum

If you ever watch the world pop on Waterson when an alert stats you will be very quickly annoyed if you are a VS. Prior to an alert starting the world pop will be mostly balanced maybe around 32 - 35 - 33. Something more or less equal. An alert will start and a little time, maybe 30 - 45 minutes pass and the pop changes to. 28 - 38 - 34. Another half hour passes and it turns into. 26 - 38 - 36. I've seen VS pop as low as 22% during an alert. About and hour or so after the alert is over (time of day depending obviously) the world pops will even back out.

The reason the VS just stick to Indar is our pop runs off to the NC and TR the second an alert starts.

You are arguing the instance pulling out of a lost battle, where as the occurrence mentioned by the OP is that of people not even willing to show up for a fight. You also cite unfavorable odds as a rational, which is itself dictated by their unwillingness to participate, as the available resources (server pop) were relatively equivalent at that time.

No, I'm explaining the past situations that developed this behavior. Everyone in NC and VS has already experienced what I mentioned, and has already made the decision to ignore alerts because they had a terrible experience. They probably went on several alerts before reaching this decision, but these alerts generally all go the same way. It's a terrible experience for the average gamer on the underpoped factions, and they aren't going to happily rush into another alert.

I went through this. I've done exactly what the OP did, and brought a squad into a territory alert on esimir, and we faced easily 2 to 1 odds everywhere. Sure, we will go sometimes to stealth around, and farm some certs from the zerg, but, unless we have a full platoon led by players up for a headache its not worth the effort.
What the OP described matches everyones experience. They went, they got whooped, and they got sick of the BS.

How many months have these alerts been happening without a single change done to alleviate the significant 4th faction issues?

Too MANY!!!

Which brings us back to my original comment,

"So past defeats have caused them to develop a fear of future defeats, which in turn leads to their avoidance of any confrontation where they may be defeated? Yes, it is a learned behavioral pattern. And it is also cowardice. But then that's just how people are, so meh."

I just don't know how else to explain to you that everyone in VS and NC are sick of alerts. Everyone is disenfranchised, and has no interest in winning them save for the few when many great leaders are willing to coordinate such an effort.

Theres a thin line between a coward and fool. The way we are is simple.

We're not stupid.

who gives a crap. it doesnt even matter. just go farm some xp somewhere else. thats all the game is about anyway.

Let me be completely specific what I mean by we are not stupid.

Learning- ' 3. modification of a behavioral tendency by experience (as exposure to conditioning)' <http://www.merriam-webster.com>

• As in players Experienced alerts for several months and it Modified their behavioral tendency
• They were exposed to the conditioning of a negative stimuli presented in the form of the respawn screen.

Stupid- ': not intelligent : having or showing a lack of ability to learn and understand things' <http://www.merriam-webster.com>

As literally as english can get. If VS and NC continued to participate in alerts despite experiencing these ridiculous fourth faction imbalances every single day for months we would be stupid.

video games are nothing more then a psychology project regarding simple human behavior. When you kill something you receive positive reinforcement, and seek to continue the thing that got you that reinforcement. when you die you receive negative reinforcement and will seek to avoid the thing that got you that reinforcement.

In this case we have the following (taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_Conditioning)

Positive punishment (Punishment) (also called "Punishment by contingent stimulation"): Occurs when a behavior (response) is followed by a stimulus, such as introducing a shock or loud noise, resulting in a decrease in that behavior. Positive punishment is sometimes a confusing term, as it denotes the "addition" of a stimulus or increase in the intensity of a stimulus that is aversive (such as spanking or an electric shock). This procedure is usually called simply punishment.

• the players behavior, in this case, going on an alert has been follower my positive punishment. Their behavior was followed by a stimulous in the form of the respawn screen, and as a result their behavior (again going on an alert) has decreased.

If SOE wanted people to participate in these events. They would give us some freaking Positive reinforcement for actually going on them. But right now all that goes to the highest pop

ok you got me it was a biolab alert, we started with one biolab and we took one. after that nobody even comprised a single vanu satelite, we held them at external bases outnumbered 2:1.

to be fair, the zerg was still on Indar so the only players there were TVA aligned outfit squads.

One platoon of random pubbies isn't going to accomplish much when many platoons from the big outfits decide they have better things to do than show up for an alert. Organized outfits are usually more useful than a group of random pubbies. And secondly, you don't have to lead a platoon to be trying, you just have to actually BE THERE to be trying. Like last night, my little squad of 11 people probably helped more during the tech plant alert than many of the big platoons because we constantly moved to where we were needed and helped secure bases that were under attack. We jumped continents several times and helped hold every single base we defended. Meanwhile there were two VS platoons around freaking Howling Pass the entire time being completely useless to their faction. We still managed to win with 5 tech plants held at the end but that could have cost us.

So if they are so useless why do you care if they aren't coming?