Why are there so many NC UP threads?

MASSIVE RANT.


IMO Nuking the **** was right. I'm chinese so some personal bias here. They went to Nanking, and went on a mass murder. 300000 dead. Why? Because we were chinese. Later they found their way to SEA, Malaysia and Singapore. Sook Ching Massacre. 100000 dead. Why because we were chinese. My grandparents lost multiple relatives. I say every damn Imperial Japanese that died to Allied weapons, be it ANZAC,US,UK, Chinese or communist resistance, was righteous. The nuke was justified. Death tolls wouldve been even higher had an invasion of mainland Japan happened. **** murdered more people than **** Germany. Read up. Philipinos, Chinese, Indians, Indigenous.

Unit 731 conducted biological and chemical weapo testing in Manchuria against chinese civillians. So to that i say 2 nukes was extremely justified.
The bukes death toll probably was less than the total ETHNIC CHINESE deatholl,not including other groups. Imperial Japan was a cesspit worse than **** germany.

Let me point you to one of my earlier posts:

Only to point out, I'm well aware the death toll and the atrocities comitted. I feel for your people's losses. You may feel the nukes justified, however I'm sure you have no illusions about why they did it - to finish the war without more american losses, not to exact revenge on your people's behalf - not to be the "white knight" as some suggested, which suggestion started my rant in the first place.
I know, it won't bring back any of the dead, nor can ease the pain, (note: not trying to defend anyone here, it's not the point) but japanese leaders did apologize for the crimes conducted against the asian nations on more than one occasion (more than once almost every year as of the last two decades, to be more precise), U.S. leaders never did so for the Little Boy and the Fat Man in the past 60+ years, for example. Victor's bias, or forgetfulness? Was it that much justified? Or is empathy a scarce resource perhaps?
You acknowledged your own personal bias, which is more matured attitude than some others'. Respect for that.

Phoenix nerf, reaver still has massive hit box, vanguard nerf, shotgun nerf (indirect max nerf), Max mag size nerf, flinch still in game, max special ability a shield non-offiensive.....


You're up to speed now.

Same reason there were so many NC OP threads last Feb-May ish. SOE over-corrected some problems, and left NC not terrible, but with nothing that shines anymore. It's just like the other two factions but without anything special.

I'm sorry for the rant. I just got pissed when I thought of all those atrocities, I've calmed down now.Come to think of it, yes. The nukes make be justified but that doesn't make it morally correct. The best thing to do is to awknowledge that war is hell and both sides commit mistakes. Best thing we can do is to not repeat the mistakes.
I just think that the men and women fighting on the ground during the Pacific Campaign were brave and justifed. The Western Front city bombings and the 2 nukes however were not. The Pacific Front was mostly fought on uninhabited islands and because of the less developed nations of Asia combat seldom involved flattening cities.

My opnion on the Pacific Front is that all they did maybe had selfish intent, but it sure as hell saved a lot of misery from people's lives. Occupation under Japan in Syonan-To ( Singapore) was not pleasant at all. The nukes will always be a point of debate but the past is past, just give the warriors the respect, politics will always be dirty and self centered.

To the OP: the amount of NC UP threads is a product of groupthink. The NC Max may not have as much utility as the other 2 Maxes and the C85 Modified is substaintially weaker, but the whole damn thing blew out of poportion and became this. Certain TR equipment being superior makes it worse. TLR: NC is slightly UP, certain TR weapons are OP. Give NC maxes dual gauss SAWs, TR and VS maxes shotties, nerf the Fractures and fix the Pounder and Falcon. Vulcan needs a DPS nerf on Harrasers and Marauders need to be brought in line with Furies.

The Striker is fine, people who QQ about it are stupid. The Harraser is a global problem and not limited to one faction.

The UFT of gaming!

If anyone needs more proof about Schrödinger’s game, wrap your head around this.

When you are playing the game, it is OBVIOUS to you whether something is balanced or broken....but no one can agree on balance once you stop playing and get on the forums.

Everything exists in a superposition of both OP and UP states, until factional loyalty causes the balance waveform to collapse into a definite state.

I'm being entirely relative here.

Burning down Dresden and levelling Nuremburg and Berlin killed a lot of innocent people, and in the case of Dresden entirely unnecessarily and even Nuremburg might have been overboard.

But this is peanuts compared to the million upon millions of civilians that were either gunned down for fun by Naz1 soldiers on the Eastern Front, executed by Einsatzgruppen for being from the wrong ethnic group, starved to death in concentration camps just for being Jewish, a Gypsy or Russian, or gassed to death for the same reason

The Japanese murdered Chinese civilians by the millions literally for fun and did it for an entire decade. They executed POWs, starved them to death, virtually enslaved the Koreans and treated native peoples of the countries they conquered like they were punching bags. And had they not been nuked, the alternative was for ALL of them to die. ALL of them. Do you like having Japan around? Because if the US hadn't nuked them, Japan wouldn't exist, and there'd be a lot of Americans and Russians alive today that would never have existed.

Compared to that completely medieval behaviour, yes, the Western Allies were knights in shining armour. They actually saved people from tyrannical domination instead of subjugating them to it.

Your stubborn ignorance has no limits. I'm beginning to think, that you are deliberately neglecting some key points I try to get through that thick skull of yours. You keep repeating things (war crimes of the Axis powers) what I'm well aware of, and even posted about in my previous post, like I'm overseeing the facts, thus 'proving' to yourself that you're right, and I have bias.

You contradict yourself on many occasions, the last one(s) being "the choice of Nukes vs Complete Eradication". Which is contradictory by itself, and simply untrue - they didn't dropped the bombs to spare themselves of eradicating a complete nation - what kind of crazy, hypocrite thinking is that? They dropped them to finish the war earlier, to save more american lives - not japan, nor chinese, nor russians. Again, no generosity or goodwill, albeit selfish ones (which I can pretty well understand, don't get me wrong) - but stretching things so far that intentionally dropping nukes on civilian populace is generous or good by any means is plain lunacy.
Just imagine: "Thank you for nuking us so our nation may live on, you didn't had to kill us all" - WHAT THE...? Yes, basically that's what you said. Again, utterly, sadly, devoid of any empathy, or deeper thought.

Just read again what you wrote right there:

Not to mention that even if one accepts the first half of that crazy sentence, there is the point of having more americans and russians alive - which wouldn't been the fact if they do not drop the bombs and carry on with conventional warfare, which leads to more losses on both sides, not "more alive today", unlike you stated. Even more contradictions in only one sentence.

It's not about deriving that one was righteous compared to one another, because they did 'less evil'. All I'm trying to get to you that there were crimes committed against humanity by both sides, on all fronts - which you blindfoldedly keep denying and belittling, by repeating the same thing over and over again, like a mantra: "it was justified we did less evil than them, they deserved it they were evil".
Do you really think that "eye for an eye" does sound right? That way of administering justice is indeed medieval. Which again stands against everything "right and just" you're trying to prove.

On another note, you act like a self-proclaimed vigilante on behalf the "unblemished victors", which is a bit odd, and leaves me thinking that you are a fanboy of said nation, without any sort of forethought - always trying to pull another card, which ends up being the same everytime: the mantra.

Unless you can elevate your viewpoint to a more matured one, I'm done talking to you as it bears no fruit, besides you could not bring any more points to the table.

Becoz maybe they are
IMO NC doesn't hav anything good going on right now
TR got a lot of'em
VS at least got ZOE

I don't, actually.

Am I still on Planetside 2 forums?

True, although it is quite hard to get 5 different people agree what day of the week it is on a forum.

Not sure where you're getting that impression - maybe it's your neolithic 'us and them' mentality?

You cannot state '**** Germany was evil' any more than I can state 'Bush's USA was evil', or even 'Clinton's USA was Good.' They're value judgements that have no place being used to retrospectively grade regimes, but moreso, there were a hell of a lot of -people- in **** Germany, and a vast majority of them were in no way evil themselves. They may have been complicit, some may have even been orchestral in atrocities that were committed, but that does not give you any kind of right to brand tens of millions of people as 'evil' because of actions orchestrated by a government (that may well have been evil).

You've since attempted to divert and state that that you meant the leadership, rather than the country as a whole, but this is clearly not the case. My counter was clearly to your incredibly sweeping and vast statements about 'getting what came to them' - I'm not sure the **** regime got anything 'coming to them' - a whole lot of people lost their lives, loved ones, families, homes, cities, and in fact aspirations and dreams, but what happened to the **** regime? They were disbanded. Horrific eh?

It's very clear from this revenge-oriented mentality that you were not making a political statement - if so, you could simply have said 'the **** regime was evil and got what was coming to it', instead of referencing getting the 'ever loving **** kicked out of them'...

To restate my original point; with regards to your 'by the standards of everyone else', the Western Allies were more or less as abhorrent as everyone else was, and ever has been in war. No one comes off as a shining light; atrocities are an unavoidable part of war; it's beyond sociopathic to attempt to apportion whose atrocities were worse than whose (if you're determined to with 'head count', the USSR tops all but the Chinese in recent history - the Holocaust doesn't even begin to compare to some of the purges).



On your points then...

You definitely need to study why Japan went to war - it wasn't 'for fun' and you have yielded your ignorance on this particular conflict with such a redundant statement. With that said, nope, they were just as bad as everyone else, my beloved England included.

I'm more or less telling you WW2 was entirely the Allies fault. If there was a point that WW2 could have been avoided, it was the point when they ground Weimar Germany into the dirt because of this same revenge mentality you're currently exhibiting. If you wanted another one, it was probably the point that trade agreements were signed with Germany that prevented real action on Hitler's ambition. It might even have been before that (with a modern 'intervention' mentality) with the Reichstag fire... Whilst it may not have avoided war, the war could have been a whole lot easier had action been taken the moment Hitler breached Versailles/Saint Germain... Again, by modern standards this is more than enough to apportion blame, especially when you see the reasons for appeasement (profit).

I absolutely love the USA. It's by far my favourite country, and I hope to end up living there one day. This is not about 'America' or 'Germany', this is about choices made by men that are long since dead. Shooting Zulus with machine guns was really not a high point in my country's history, nor was the slave trade starting its business in my town, but I'm neither ashamed of them nor offended by their mention. I had nothing to do with them, and the people who did lived by a different set of morals. A set that I have the hindsight to see the error of. This isn't about 'bashing america', and is absolutely not '**** sympathising'; it's just about trying to get into your head that -everyone did things that don't even rate on the scale of 'good->bad'-.

Yes, the death tolls were terrible; they're incredibly deceptive to analyse from a statistical point of view. By numbers of troops fielded, they're more even, and by % of population killed they're also more even - it's difficult to compare two relatively small countries that were exceedingly well equipped with a group of countries included many third world/colonies, and the USSR+China (making up around 2/3 of that total, and including the deaths relating to famine and the Japanese takeover of China). If you compare time spent in occupation and time spent in assault also, the numbers get exceedingly complex and convoluted.

Suffice it to say, it was horrific; one of the highest death tolls of -any- occurrence in human history. The world is unlikely to fully recover in even our grandchildren's grandchildren's lifetimes. I hope no such conflict ever blights humanity again. That hope seems faint when one sees the same 'Victor vs Loser' mentality that caused these conflicts in the first place propagated when confronted with the reality of such conflict. It suggests we may never grow.



PS. Thanks for the distraction. It's been a -slow- day at work.

No, I think you really misunderstand the implications of not dropping the nukes.

Japan was going to fight to the death, literally. Likely, many of them would have surrendered, but just as many if not more would have rather died. They armed their entire population, they were going to make the whole thing as apocalyptic as possible. If they hadn't been nuked, then Japan would have to have been invaded, and most of the Japanese people would have died, along with (according to their own estimates) 1 million Americans, and who knows how how many Soviets since it seems unlikely they'd just sit in China the whole time. So yes, as strange as it sounds, dropping the nukes was a good idea. It wasn't done to save Japan, obviously, it was done to save Americans, but it saved Japan nonetheless.

You're still acting like I don't care or recognize any war crimes by the Western Allies. Do I have to, like, list them all and what I want done about it? What do I have to do to convince you I don't excuse these things? I'm not denying the Allies were wilfully ignoring their own crimes at Nuremberg and being hypocrites about stuff, but they never had institutionalized, officially authorized war crimes.

Yes, yes I can.

Bush did not order genocide or execute political enemies. Did he unjustly invade a sovereign nation and get lots of people killed for reasons unclear but likely to do with oil? Yes, yes he did, and it's abominable that he got away with it.

And the **** regime did get what was coming to it - need I remind you that those who were not killed in the war were mostly either locked up, or executed. You're making it sound like their cronies took the hit and they just got their power taken away; they lost a lot more than that, in fact most of them lost everything.

The fact that WWII likely would not have happened if not for WWI does not in any way excuse Hitler or Stalin's psychopathic behaviour. It is not the Allies' fault that those guys were power-hungry madmen. Was the Treaty of Versailles a good idea? Not at all. But neither was the entire first world war. By your logic, the Vietnam War was the fault of the French, because the US felt they "had' to do something after the French got themselves kicked out and it's somehow France's fault that LBJ can't control himself.

Well this thread escalated quickly.... and by it's content I can now say with much conviction that SOE does not read them or it would have been closed many posts ago.

Let's try and avoid talking about real world politics eh guys?

Let's get back on track. The reason there are so many NC are UP threads is because... well.. we are.

On a serious note one of the things I hear a lot is that "we NC" don't work together enough or use tactics and THAT is why we fail.

So explain then why when grouped up with my fellow Devil Dog pilots I get hate tells all the time calling us a zerg or spammers? Just doing what the forums say we should do to be able to compete right?

I do apologize if my post was harsher than it needed to be. In college I have to deal with way too many hippies who think America-bashing makes them enlightened or something, and like to go on about how *they* wouldn't have killed any civilians or caused any collateral damage if they were in charge. They like to pretend that it takes some special intelligence to not see the difference between an unfortunate necessity, a tactical blunder, and heartless slaughter. I suppose one could argue it does, for some definitions of "special".

We do what we have to do, based on what we know at the time. Does that make us amoral bastards? Maybe. Maybe.

But I'd rather be a free bastard than a dead one. And we all know that for a true blue NC, those are the only options.