Heavy assault + resist shield + ( Ar/SMG like LMG ) are seriously OP and imbalanced ...

without getting into any actual conversation about you being wrong and all, I like how you quote a video you think supports your position when in fact, YOU are the crotchety senile player being depicted.

PS: how do LMGs have twice the TTk as any other weapons?

Firstly Stew you're are just as self motivated as everyone else on these forums and to try to pretend that you're not is delusional. You want the changes you keep whining about because you want PS2 gameplay to be the way you want it to be; to the detriment of others that disagree with you. This sort of attitude is nothing new on gaming forums and can be seen there, no matter what game is the focus.

The trouble is that you seem to think that your required gameplay is the right way and everybody else is wrong, and you refuse to even contemplate that others points of view as just as valid as yours. You keep stating that you're putting forward valid and reasoned arguments and everybody else is just trying to protect their favoured playstyle; but what you are failing, or refusing, to accept is that your opinions are nothing more than that, an opinion and as such is no more valid, nor important, than anybody elses.

I'm sure that you truly do believe that the changes you want will make PS2 a better game , but they won't; they will just make PS2 a better game for you, but will worsen other gamers enjoyment.

Now looking through this thread, (this applies to others you have posted as well) the majority of replies are not in support of your requested changes; this would mean that, if they were implemented, more players would have their enjoyment worsened than would have it increased. This would not be a good thing for the long term health of this game, believe me.

To be fair, HA and Engineers combined typically make up much greater than 50% of the play time. What this means is that a purely "democratic" perspective as you suggest would have predictable results.

It is not surprising that HA and Engineer as such strong classes considering they are played much more frequently than others. While true that making changes to these classes to make them less "go to" would upset more people than those who would appreciate these kinds of changes this has nothing to do with balance as it is intended.

HA and Engineers could be me the most OP BS nonsense in the game but if 75% of people main those classes then a poll of Forumside would leave you with the conclusion that they are just fine.

To put it the other way around, LA is one of the least played classes and therefore nerfs to LA are a lot less likely to result in backlash and buffs to LA are a lot more likely to result in backlash because so few play LA as the main class- does this mean it is okay to nerf LA into a "get into this tree" class? because that is basically what they have done

Being a combined arms game, and seeing that HA and Engis have the most AV tools available.... you see where i am going.

K, so where is the balance there?

Why do you need balance? What gameplay reason, other than 'the squads would be evenly distributed!', is there for having more than a couple medics, LAs, and infs?

Well, I would think that you would want balance among the classes so that the choice of what class you prefer is just that personal preference and not the game making some classes inherently better at the game than others.

It's just an opinion but personally I think it takes away from the game when there are 5 classes but 2 of them outperform the others in so many situations that they make up the bulk of the player base.

I see this as being no different than releasing 5 weapons where 2 of those weapons are just better than the rest. In one sense, there is no problem because everyone can (and will tend to) just use those 2 best weapons but in another sense it is problematic because it begs the question why make 5 weapons when only 2 are really worth using.

It's like saying, "you like playing LA? That's great, you can play LA just be prepared to be owned in most situations because it usually sucks compared to HA" or "you like playing HA? Perfect, you're a winner because that class is the best" or "Want certs? Better play a medic or engineer because they make bank with very little effort".

These things may be true but there is nothing saying that things have to be that way and that more could not be done to make these choices more or less equal and dependent upon predominately on user preference.

Why should the game be designed in such a way that you can progress much more rapidly and much more easily with 2 out of 5 options? Why should the game be designed in such a way that the majority of time you should play X or Y but not A,B or C?

It's really pretty simple- people play HA and Engineer most often because these are most often the best classes to play. This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with how the game is designed in its current state.

I see what you're saying, and if this were a game where you had to choose a class at the start and you're stuck with it I'd totally agree. However, it isn't. You pick the class that best fits your current situation, and change your class selection where appropriate. It isn't a giant unbalance that HA fits a lot of situations because they're clearly designed to be the grunt.

Right, all I am questioning is why any class should be clearly the grunt. HA "being designed to be the grunt" just sounds like it was deisgned to be overall the best and again I think that begs the question as to why.

Moreover, while it is true that you can switch classes anytime your certs cannot. In addition, people do have playstyle preferences and some people really only enjoy playing certain roles and suffer because of it- so unless I like playing HA then I have to choose between playing what I enjoy to my own disadvantage or playing something I do not really care for not to be at disadvantage.

I just think there is a better way and I think that this is the sentiment that leads to this thread. People recognize the HA as being the strongest class but over time feel that this makes the game a bit dull because my ability to play the game effectively is directly related to my choice of class regardless of skill or playstyle.

It is like creating a sandbox and then having someone put sand in your box if do not play a certain way.

Are you serious? Why do you people have such a sense of entitlement?

You may very well enjoy playing that light assault, but you wont enjoy getting killed by tanks. So you roll heavy.

Are you suggesting LAs should get rocket launchers as well?

What if i enjoyed playing my HA, but i also enjoy driving a tank? Should my HA get a repair tool too?

Why hasnt the backbone of any force been mentioned? The medic?

EDIT: and get out with the nonsense of HA being plainly 'the best'. Go watch 'the best' players stream for a while.

To expand on this, here are mpal's stats with one of the medic rifles. His KDR is high enough that it's pretty clear he's beating heavies regularly, considering how many heavies run around. It's the same story for any good player with most any class.

Because of the wrong assumption that we're in a game where balance and fairness between the classes is intended. But we're in an rock, paper, scissors game and balance between rock and paper isn't intended.

this is bpure BS based on misconception and bad design iam sorry

Ok lets say the HA is the rock Who is the paper ?

Lets say the LA is the cissor who is the rock ?

Or betterwich classes is the rock ? who is the scissor ? and who is the papers

Increasing TTK on a single classes by 2 time isnt a Rock paper cissor concept

Sorry my good man you should think a little more about your concept and come back when you have something that make sens with the current game mechanics

There are many quite successfull games using this design

This was analogy for the broad concept. In R/P/S the three options are balanced about killing each other.

In games like PS2 they are not. Killing is only one possible way to contribute to the objective and not all classes have to be equally adept at it.

If all classes have a basic killing capability, then

Medics have basic killing + heal/revive
Enginers have basic killing + repair/fortify
LA have basic killing + extreme mobility
Infiltraters have basic killing + stealth/extreme range
HA has basic killing + increased killing capacity

Thus HA is the best at killing and no, it's not unbalanced because the idea never was to have each class equally good at killing.

If you want to be the best at killing spawn HA. If you want to trade in killing capacity for something else you think is needed more at the moment, you spawn one of the other classes

name one and explain the mechanics please Saying hey i know this or thats dont make your point valid be specifics

So whats is the Options to kill a HA thats the HA can use himself agains you ?

HA can heal themself , they have acess to shotguns and SMG ( the fastest CQC weapons ) they have acess to the ( warden type of weapons ) the Long range semi auto snipers , also they have heavy weapons MCG and Lasher but also have acess to a huge variety of LMG and Assault riffle like LMG lol

+ HA have roughly 2.0 X more HP so thats is this mechanics or options thats conter that ?

BE 2 or 3 versus 1 ? a compleate squad can run as heavy so been outnumbers isnt a valid arguments because you can also be alone agains 2 or 3 HA , ever play agains DA ?

Big ones

Look, I'm not going to argue with you because it's pointless and I don't understand half of what you type. The point was that good players can kill heavies fine without being HA themselves. This does not mean that good players using HA won't be even better when using the class designed to have an advantage in infantry combat.

Est-ce que vous me racontez une classe appelée "Heavy Assault" est capable d'attaquer plus fortement?

Vonic ne fine comme une agression contre la lumière lourds et vous êtes aussi bon que lui, alors quoi de ce problème?

So what do you suggest? Give everyone AV/AA abilities?

You ask where the balance is, I say it is balanced.

I don't think HA's are overpowered at all, and no, I don't play it either - though I do think it's a class for the newer players, or lesser skilled ones, and I do think it has too many options available to it, but I don't think their overpowered, and they rarely bother me.

As for Engineers, well that I do play, and I think their a very viable class with solid options. I think the AV turret is one of the few things in this game that is overpowered, and I do use it, though the class itself isn't overpowered but very versatile for many many different roles, even in infantry killing. That said, I certainly don't see ANY issue in the numbers of engineers, for that exact reason. Nice choice of primary weapons, AI or AV turret, Ammo + repair support, Good for being a suicidal bomber class, great for USGL spam farming, best class for being a lone wolf (unless their bad, then HA is best since they probably won't run out of ammo) and lastly, and what makes them most popular, their THE go to class for piloting a vehicle (except flash). Considering there's Sundy, Lightning, harasser, MBT, Lib and ESF, then yes, there are a lot of them.

Now give everyone AA/AV capabilities (to that of a HA/Engineer) and suddenly, it becomes very imbalanced and now becomes infantry side - which in turn, would probably make more heavies.

I also play Medic, and my Medic has NW5 and the highest Heal, and I personally find AR's the best primary weapon in the game. I last A LOT longer and feel a hell of a lot more hardy with my medic than I do when I play HA. So a medic can seriously not complain about a HA.

With all that said, I wouldn't mind seeing roles changed slightly, HA should lose it's rocket launcher and get the engineers ammo pack. The engineer should be able to have the rocket launchers as a CHOICE, but not including the turrets, so it's a decimator or AV turret, not both. I also think C4 should be taken from both Medic and HA (but left with the LA) and the medic could get an AoE drop heal (as in, drop it and leave it like an ammo pack) BUT, that's only my opinion and the current set up really doesn't bother me, nor cause me an issue.

No ones have ever said HA cant be kills , HA simply have way to much of a edge versus others class especially if a players is laggy or using Shotguns or SMG or ( VS orion ) or (NS15-M) weapons been a 2.0 X + target but having acess to the fastest ttk weapons but also having the Strafe boost of a SMG that negate the armor speed debuff , IS beyong unfair and unsporty

HA have no limitation at anything and have weapons thats are suitable for Any range from Long to medium to cqc , so nothing will ever justified their survivability its silly unworthy and need a fix to ensure thats SKills WIN over classes and loadout ...

lag compensation is already a pain , so there is No way i could accept to keep the HA as they are since the LAG compensation is a piece of cake to exploits for those big boys, peaking a corner where they havent been seen yet start firering and the time it take for their opponent to notice them they cant deal more than 40 to 60 % of the HA health , while the HA if someones use this same LAG compensation abuse on them they still have a chance to figth back and win the figth so in both situation the HA as much more chance to win and survive the figth