You dont have the right to tell me or anyone elsehow to play the game with in the rules regarding KD

You misunderstand the point of this thread. It don't ever refuse to be healed, but as light assault storming the enemy position I don't have that luxury. Medics are never around where they are needed most, I can only attribute this to there overly cautious playstyle. As for accusations of farming, I suppose going for kills is considered farming?

I will regularly charge in and get 2-3 kills before i die, how is this farming exactly. Hypocrisy is pretty strong as these medics and engineers are only farming xp without actually putting their life in much danger. Sure their is teamwork but the primary is to take bases, done primarily with force, you don't heal your way into a base. There is a reason they call them first person shooters, if you don't like combat I suggest you return to playin World of Warcraft.

Well I have a max skilled LA on TR, an I agree with you there, I am always in middle of it. But as for engie, I am always in middle of the **** storm when repairing tanks etc, as for medics, they are prime targets for anyone, so they often die when trying to res people.

Am I singling you out? No. Don't be so offended. I have no problems with team players and medics and engineers that rush into battle. That is where they are needed. Not hanging back and just heal spamming and rez farming. Ultimately there is no one true stat to gauge one's ability or usefulness to the team. But far as most people are concerned KDR is a good barometer, I personally think if your KDR is below 1 your either getting farmed or your pretty ineffective at defending yourself.

These games are called first person shooters for a reason...

LOL, i'd attribute this to the fact they CAN'T FLY.

I've lost games of Dota where our Zeus had like 30 kills and zilch deaths.. In addition, support heroes in that game never get impressive scores, yet they're just as essential as the carry who usually ends the game with a fat positive KDR. And make no mistake: That game is just as much about killing your enemy as PS2.

Third time I'm saying this today:
KDR belongs in DM/TDM not in an objective based game.

This is how I think things will roll with KDR reset tokens. People will get them and try to stat pad EVEN MORE just to make sure their new KDR is as high as possible.

The people sitting at the crown and on the hill towards Crossroads aren't doing their faction a huge favor by taking potshots at eachother.

spot on!

There are exceptions for every rule, but in dota if you have 1-13-3 score you most likely suck. And being a support and doing such essential supportive things like placing wards and bying a courier is not an excuse for 13 deaths. Of course sometimes(!) it's not like that, sometimes you just get killed under the tower again and again, but your overall score with a certain character throughout all of your playhours should be good. If throughout 100 games on a CM you have 0.1 kd, and someone have 1 kd - that "someone" is better.

Same with PS - if I see two heavy assaults and one of them got 0.5 kdr and another one got 10 - I have no illusions of who of them is better.

Plus in this Zeus game you've mentioned said Zeus' goal is to dominate early and midgame, gank as much as possible, because he'll not be nearly as useful in the lategame as a carry. Now with this game I can see that it's either a loss dependant on your picks, or, most likely, your carry just sucked. If zeus got 30 kills throughout early and midgame that's about 6 deaths for every foe, in this case they could not possibly outfarm your carry unless they're fed by others, your team is horrible standing on the lane, or your carry can't farm. Once again, kdr (kdar in dota's case) do matter alot.

And nope, dota is not even remotely close to PS2 in terms of being "about kdr". First of all PS2 is a FPS, so everybody shoots everybody. Say medic's assault rifle is amazing, it's not like you can't kill with it like you can't kill carries in dota with a CM. Plus in dota pushing towers, farming safely (wards), etc. give you ingame advantage, because such simple teamplay maneuvers like ganks and pushes gives you gold which gives you an opportunity to gear up ingame and get stronger. In PS2, however, objectives give nothing. 1k exp for a damn huge station capture, really? I can get the same exp in a couple of minutes, if we're talking about exp. Objectives in PS2 are worthless and useless, they give nothing. Eventually, PS2 comes to being more or less a big sandbox shooter where you define what you want yourself, so capturing objectives give you literally nothing.

Edit: and even if said objectives gave reasonable exp there is still a fact that exp gives nothing. Aswell as levels. It's all useless in PS2 - you can scrap levels and exp completely and leave only certs gain - nothing will happen. Talking about certs - personally I can play stock infiltrator with stock rifle just fine both and sniper and as a CQC ninja-wannabe. So thinking that PS2 is an a game of objectives is a delusion.

Victory conditions in Dota and PS2 aren't strictly dependant on kills. In Dota you need to kill an enemy's ancient, in PS2 it's territory control and there are different ways to do each in each game. Sure a Crystal Maiden that dies 13 times is a liability to your team, but at the end of the match even a great CM is likely going to have a .7 or lower score when its over. Was she bad? No. Are her bad stats her just punishment for playing a Support character type? You seem to think so, and seem to think that she should have to permanently be marked with those stats because of her. Dota2 doesn't track KDR for these reasons, just wins/losses.

And yes there are plenty of support roles in PS2 like repairing a MAX, Vehicle, reviving, hacking, lib piloting etc. not tied strictly to killing. Repairing a MAX in a biolab is a fulltime job, as is reviving and healing in a large battle or even flying a liberator around. Ontop of that many of these support classes are high priority targets: You want medics dead first. I'd even like to see more of these kinds of roles and I don't think PS2 has enough of them to be honest.

I will agree that supporting is much more apart of those games than PS2, where everyone (not including vehicles) has adequate (but not equal) killing potential. But it's one of many examples of the negatives and shortcomings of a KDR stat.

Right, to win in dota you need to destroy an ancient, but you can't win in planetside. There is no win in planetside.

Talking about this CM - CM can't possibly be good at killing in the lategame, but in PS medic can kill just fine, his possession of support abilities don't make his combat ablities weaker. 0.7 kdr for a CM in dota is ok, but not ok for medic in PS. CM can barely defent herself, PS2 medic, however, can make an agressor cry like a little girl. On any distance, btw.

Yes there are lots of support roles in PS2, but in most cases whey're actually quite close to killing. I mean to actually heal, or repair your max, you actually need to stay alive. Engineer who repairs the max and dies is worse then an engineer who repairs the max and lives. 2nd one got better kdr.

To clear it up: Engineer most likely won't have a kdr comparable with a HA for obvious reasons. But among some group of engineers or a group of HAs the ones with a highest kdr are most likely better. And yes it's a pity that so far PS2 can't show is some guy got high kdr with infantry combat or farming kills on a tank for example.

Yes, it's pretty obvious that kdr stat is not perfect, but it can still work to estimate one's approximate skill level. Like win % in dota.
On a side note - it's a pity that there is no penalty for death in PS. It would be more interesting that way.

Hey Pot meet Kettle. Here you are preaching to others how they should play. Don't you see the irony of your stand? LOL dang kids these days.

+1

Oh, yet another K/D ****storm?

K/D is a nice tool for tracking how well you do in a given session. It can be used to track changes in your own effectiveness, since you yourself are likely to know in which ballpark your K/D usually is while doing a certain task. It is however not really comparable with other players and is just a tiny part of the relevant statistics. If anything, I'd like to see more statistics and better graphs and such. A proper statistician might be able to do quite a bit of magic with the data the game gathers

PS. I've never understood why some people have such strong feelings about K/D. It is not important. Relax and get on with the game

Agree

Be nice for those who like to play support if they tracked things like revives or Turret's repaired etc etc

LOL You don't have to because you just said that ONLY PEOPLE WITH BAD K/D ARE COMPLAINING and I just disproved that little theory. In fact, you'll find that most competitive gamers don't really care much about K/D in terms of judging a player's effectiveness in a team-oriented game.

One of the people mentioned his girlfriend having a low K/D but she was successful with helping her squad in several ways. I would easily take her in my squad over some K/D-obsessed guy any time because I could count on players like her to do their part to help the squad. I don't care how many kills she gets or how many times she dies as long as she contributes something to the team, whether its healing, reviving, repairing MAXs, dropping ammo, etc...

You did finally say one accurate thing though. There is no single stat that accurately gauge's a person's ability because ALL of them can be padded. But then you went on to claim K/D is a good way.... *sigh*

Oh and they are also called MULTIPLAYER FPS games for a reason. Why you ask? Well because you are usually part of a team on these games and you should keep that in mind.

Exactly. This had bad idea written all over it.

The strange part is how everything gets confused to easily... I don't hate people that do care about their KDR. I think we're actually on the same side here, but its all gotten lost in the sea of messages.

Go ahead with labels - no one will take you very seriously now... you'll be treated just like another immature kid calling other people names by engaging in such actions.

What I do hate is people trying to tell others how to play the game - and since you mentioned your outfit. I checked them out - seems like the outfit leaders do exactly that - ie. everyone else is supposed to follow orders unconditionally. Seems like you guys take the game way too seriously and feel like you can dictate how others play?

obviously you are a k/d person and yes everyone can play the game however they want, just also know there are team players and team objectives abound with such an mmo.
if such a lonewolf, not saying you are but im assuming you are , bad of me, then dont join any squad/platoon and do your thing..cause ultimatley enemy deaths are good.stat padding or whatever else term u wanna use..keep it to the lonewolf and dont join squads/platoons play by yourself and do your thing and noone will bother you with your own personal objectives.
by my own admission i lonewolf it abit..from time to time....whatever suits ur mood..its just a game ya know.