[Suggestion] Remove Kill/Death Stats... COMPLETELY

Neither view is entirely right or wrong IMO. I don't lose sleep over my K/D ratio (about 1.6) - and we know Battle Rank shows a combination of longevity of play (incl. boosters) - We agree BR doesn't bestow many advantages - just a name label - on a side note I would like to see more aesthetic changes to show BR perhaps - and why not, it's an investment in gameplay time.

Skill wise K/D is precious to some, but let's face it - it could mean you are an FPS uber foot soldier or Lib gunner who kills from the relative safety of armour and altitude. Therefore you will see extremes. I don't judge the value of a player by K/D or BR either. I get killed regularly by BR1 players (often friendly players called LlllLlllLllLlllll or combination thereof ).

In PS1 I was 100% utility oriented and loved it. I avoided every 'big' option - choosing Engineer, Hacker and Mossie Pilot, and did okay from it. I really enjoyed the tactics - and whilst I enjoyed combat - I was average to good at best - my differentiator was my tactical gameplay - albeit mainly as a solo player. The dynamic in PS2 changes that - solo players don't do as well, but not everyone wants to join an outfit, so pug groups are possible - the important thing is choice. If my opinion counts - I would love to see utility skills (non direct combat) developed - not just meta game. Let's see..

Neither side is going to 'win' the discussion through weight of personal conviction - it's a discussion/debate, clearly passionate for some folks. If K/D is kept, I won't cry myself to sleep at night over it. I like to try out new ideas - sometimes they work, often they don't - but at the cost of K/D ratio - if it needs someone need to run in a defended door first to start an attack, I have no qualms that I will likely be the first to die. If it facilitates the rest of players I'm with to be decisive and follow-through, taking over a control point, then I think tactically that is sound - I re-spawn in seconds, so it's not terminal right? I play on. Sacrifice and Dying is a -valid tactic- and I use it (more often than I would like perhaps, but valid).

My opinion then - remove K/D, keep K/D, hide K/D it doesn't bother me personally. I enjoy PS2 and what the devs have done so far, and promise to do in the future. If I had a 1000:1 K/D but didn't enjoy then game, then I would have a problem. That and BFRs

/salute

Oh hey this thread again.

KDR is not a major motivational factor for many players - arguably, the vast majority, given observable behavior in game. Cert gain is the major factor that drives player behavior. Removing visibility of KDR will accomplish precisely one thing- players who care will start trying to find alternate ways to track it. The in-game effect of doing so will be negligible.

Who really cares. We play to have fun. People like you take this way too seriously. I play for fun and play with friends that also play for fun. When people start getting bend out of shape, they know it is time to take a break or we give him a hard time and he figures it out.

How good you are at the game is more a function of how much you can spend on your rig and internet connection. I watch guys that pull off stuff that I know I never could do. Fun to watch. Others do what they can to help.

People that feel the need to flex their epeen need to have a hard look in the mirror.

LoL XD

What we need is a reason to play the objective, to capture a base. I proposed an idea in a failed thread a while ago, here it is:

Sun Tzu did not pen half of the things he is credited for. His family for generations were advisors and the works of Sun Tzu as we know it came from multiple people.

Any excuse you can give yourself as to why someone is better then you.

How am I getting bent out of shape, I am not crying to remove something, and at the same time saying its pointless and means nothing to me.

GG blame your internet, blame your computer.

I have a $600 PC, with basic insight internet, and my KDR is around 2...:-/ Never lagged, and play on highest settings with shadows off..

Nice try though.

If you don't care, don't talk about it. Otherwise you are just sad you suck.

The latter rarely being a real contribution.

I'd rather have one fast-respawning assault guy repeteadly storming the base than an Infiltrator sitting far away, because the former is what puts real pressure on the enemy.

And I won't call the ordinary zergers for the fearless drones as you describe them as.
They often care particulary about their KDR because they are not part of an outfit, their KDR is their only representing stt, and also; to them, being dead = no EXP.

My experience with the 'zerglings' is that the cowards won't even push the line sometimes in fear of being killed.

"Get out of the spawn room, you gits! Or they'll surround us!" ... and they just sit there...


And the idea that Outfit players have a higher KDR is very flimsy.
Playing as a footsoldier in an Outfit often comes with negative KDR because you're a victim to everything, and if you try to take a well fortified position, people will die, lots.(but they typically get the job done better than anyone, despite ****** KDRs).

A bigger zerg? Sounds like a more effective attack to me.

People rushing in, doing big damage, expires, and respawn asap and repeat are a very destructive force, and they are even more destructive when organized.

Biolab fights are often won by sheer brute force, pushing over your dead in waves and attacking the enemy from every angle.

It gives you a ****** KDR if you are in the front line, but it it helps your team a LOT more than if you had sat back, attempting to pick off targets.

Players(usually randoms) in this game need more encouragement to sacrifice themselves for the cause.

I'd rather have 1 guy with 0.5 KDR whom repeatedly charged the enemy positions, swarming them with grenades, C4 and heavy fire, rather than 1 guy with a 10 KDR who sat back, attempting to pick off targets.

This is a battle of logistics. Casualties are irrelevent.(and easily replacable)

First i'd like to thank CrunchSlamchest for reiterating my point. You've made some very great posts, thank you.

Protential... what's so hard about understanding the true concept of this game and that KDR DOES affect the overall gameplay flow whether you see it in the game or not? Yes, in this game you have to kill. You have to kill a lot, and i love it. Everyone loves it. It's a great feeling for myself and everyone to achieve kills. 1 simple kill at a base can be a significant turning point for the faction attacking or defending a base. And that's the whole purpose, to attack and defend territories. KDR obsessors divert from the actual concept & objective of the game and worry about going negative on their stats, thus KDR being their main priority.

This is something that you might not see or feel happening when you play, but i've got some news for you... it happens around you every second you play. Some players around you could care less about your squad moving in and coming out successful, that player just focuses on their KDR whether the objective was completed successfully or not. and yes, THAT DOES AFFECT GAMEPLAY WHETHER YOU CARE ABOUT THAT ONE SINGLE PLAYER'S ACTIONS OR NOT. KDR becomes an internal passion & obsession of the game for many players, thus like i said in my initial post, somehow ruins the game for others whether you see it or not.

Protential, you're no one to assume that anyone here is a noob or sucks for inclining towards removing KDR Stats. This is something suggested not just by me, but by hundreds of other players, good players, and players whom have been personally interviewed by game sites regarding feedback on PS2.

Why do you think Valve is easily one of the best & overall one of the most successful video game companies alive? Because players enjoy Valve games for the reason that they're made just to have fun (and the quality of course). Any Valve game that you jump onto: Counter-Strike, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress, etc... you just jump onto a server, play, you have a good round or a bad round, and that's it. There's no stressing a permenant KDR. Valve games are stress-free when it comes to KDR Stats. Besides the fact that Valve games are awesome, lack of KDR tracking is also a reason why players are still playing their games 8 years later. Because they don't log on stressing, "Man, my Counter-Strike KDR sucks. Ehhh, don't feel like playing anymore, let me get back to Call of Duty, i'm good at that, 2.8 dogg."
(I will clarify by saying that Valve did successfully release their games in this style without integrating KDR Stats, up until the new Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. i don't understand why they did it for CS:GO, it disappoints me that they did, and A LOT of fans are disappointed by it as well.)

I am not at all trying to say that removing KDR Stats will PERFECT this game and that this is the solution to SOE's glory in PS2.
What i am trying to say is that whether you see it or not, players around you every second are not working with you/us because they worry about their KDR. Remove KDR Completely, and this game will be better than what it already is. Gameplay chemistry & flow will change. I promise you that.

For players such as Protential that do not understand this flaw... there are plenty of Call of Duty versions out there to chose from (ouch...)

That player is also the reason the other faction will have tons of 1,000 cert items unlocked while you are lagging behind because he aimlessly gives them EXP.

Sacrificing yourself for a cause if the most fail idea you can come up with.

How about Not sacrificing yourself, and achieving the same goal through tactical, and weapon superiority?

Completely against the removal of KDR. The next thing people will use is score/hour, if its not that it will be bases captured/defended if its not that I am sure they will come up with something else. KDR doesn't matter & if its impacting your play that much than I suggest moving onto another game.

Why does a player who is not in your outfit, effect you or your outfit by not doing what he does.

I suggest you focus more on what your team is doing, and less on what some random noob is doing, which in reality is TRYING NOT TO DIE. They are not farming kills, they are trying to stay alive because they get smacked everytime they move so they are huddled in corners in fear of coming outside until they learn the mechanics.

Why does it matter if KDR is permanent, or Temporary? Its still visable, and you will still be judged the same way regardless.

Also in CS, you get kills for completeing objectives. The same way it should be here. Infact, unless you are going a scrim, the ONLY POINT TO A ROUND OF CS IS TO GET THE BEST SCORE POSSIBLY.

In CS you rarely are only competing against 1 team, you are trying to prove you are the best in the entire server. and 99.99999999999999999999 % of CS servers have permanent ranking systems added in to them, this is why Valve does not need to make its own stat recording system.

I have never ever ever ever met 1 CS player who WANTS to go 10-50...EVER I am also 90% sure if you could suicide in CS to blow up a couple enemies no one would do it. Because being killed matters, you can't just randomly respawn back up.

Bottom line, players who are not working with you are not in your outfit.

It does not mean they are trying to stat Pad KDR.

The only players who typically stat pad KDR by not ever advancing towards objectives are Lib gunners, and thats still generally not true, because they are bombing bases with objectives in them.

The players who avoid fights are not randomly going to jump in mass death fest, just because its not a stat recorded. And its not going to force everyone to join your outfit and listen to a bunch of nerds yelling about where to do and how to play..

Face it, a lot of people play their own way. MAYBE they will settle down in to outfits, MAYBE not.

But like every other FPS, you need to learn not to rely on random friendlies to cover you or have your back.

Even in CS the odds that some pug player sticks around and covers your back are slim to none, and even if they are, what are the odds they don't die, still leaving you to die from behind.

The fact you blame your failure, or suggest your gameplay is ruined because everyone is not a mindless drone taht follwos your outfit is really selfish.

ALSO CS IS MOST NOTORIOUS FOR CAMPERS

CAMPING AREAS THAT DO NOT NEED TO BE CAMPED, JUST TO GET EASY KILLS.

Yes, we get it. You think you're good but there's a stat right there that plainly tells you that you aren't, and you want it gone.

Yes Yes .. Thats why those very same " highest level players " ( not Top as in best, since XP boost's and farming doesn't make you the best ) just farmed in Lib's most of the time ..
The hypocrisy is thick if those top player's " really " think that

I think that is more less the primary factor why there is such a outrage over K/D amongst the community.

+1

And they keep reffering to CS for being glorious because it has no KDR.

I played CS for years, my main motivation when not doing scrims was to get the highest KDR possible each round.

This encouraged, planting and defusing the bomb for the extra 3 kills per round.

Every server kept track of stats ranks etc.

CS is my favorite FPS of all time, Ever, nothing will ever touch it.

No CoD clone ever made.

No CoD clone with a Sci-Fi Skin

Nothing...No Halo, Not anything.

And its because the level of competition.

No thanks. If you don't want to see your KD or score then don't look at it or mine. I want to know my performance. From KDR to my accuracy, kills, score per minute, and time used with a weapon. KDR is not the problem with this game an removing it will do nothing for anyone.

The problem is the core game mechanics themselves. Team work isn't encouraged enough. We've got solo ace MBTs and you can't even throw smoke grenades on most classes. The most support type of grenade ever made and you can't even use it as a medic or engineer. The core of the game encourages spawn camping as it is te only means to truly secure a base for takeover. We need more objectives, more strategy, more teamwork. None of these problems have anything to do with KDR.

Equip some smoke grenades. Find a situation where your team isn't advancing because they're afraid of dying. Throw the grenade at the enemy position. Notice your teammates advancing. I do this daily as light assault. They create a 'charge' mentality. They break that pause and hesitance and turn it into productivity. More classes need smoke grenades.

So long as the game tracks kills and deaths, there will always be a K/D ratio.

Either people care about K/D or they don't. Removing it isn't going to suddenly make people want to die more often or kill less people.