Power Knife Nerf - Ok then Bye for good

Where did you get that info? Because if its from where I think it is, that is some absolutely mind-bogglingly high KD for a knife.

I personally enjoy the archer changes, simply because it range dropoff in damage makes it so you really have to be close with the archer but also the 4x scope or rather lack of lower than that, I find it personally quite interesting now to use on my Engi and now it doesn't feel like I'm tickling a max. Also I haven't been able to 1hit a max with an archer, usually it's 2 shots to the head.

As for the Power Knife thing; You are completely right, it's always been the same old HA's complaining something being OP because they get caught with their pants down (they don't have their Overshield up) and then complain that they couldn't press their IWIN button in time. Which in all honestly should have a delay in activation if you ask me, considering it 1.5x your effective HP in an instant making you win most 1on1 engagements. HA arguably have the best KD in the entire game, because they have an ability that literally gives them and instant 500 effective HP over the average infantry, LMG are arguably just assault rifles that you barely have to reload.

People have been complaining bout shotguns for like, ever. Not just on this game. And as much as shotgunners annoy me, I get pissy and then accept it, because again, they got close to me, I let that happen and got punished for it. Is it fun to play against? No.. But I don't care, I keep calm and respawn. It's the same as Harrassers, I find them incredibly annoying to fight against, but that's kinda the point.

But ye, Powerknives. Most of the time, we step on a mine, get TK'd by a friendly grenade, or randomly get shot and made visible. Unless you have a fight that's got at max 24/24 players, on off-peak hours, you're not gonna be able to be sneaky.

Just the other day, I was trying to knife a heavy. and he just ran. And despite adrenaline pump, because he's an enemy, a physical entity, I cannot catch up, I can just get up to about his backside, the moment I swing, I slow down and he runs out of range of the swing and then someone else kills me.

As for the Powerknifes, I have been doing that. That tactic only works when there's minimal people around, on off-peak hours because otherwise Clientside will just deny you, the slow swing is just so easy to dodge it's unreal. So no, it doesn't work. It's waaaaay to inconsistent, which is the irony in the devnote, that they're trying to make things consistent.

Also I can tell you, no.. They don't respect you more. Still the same amount of toxic attitude you get, all the time. It's just that they feel too good to be knifed in an FPS. But even then, I'd argue a normal knife is almost more effective but again suffers from that 2hit, hit detection won't allow you to. It's not more 'honorable', people generally don't see knifing as 'honorable' because they feel humiliated, regardless of the 1-hit or 2-hit.

Nerfing the 1-hit made it pointless to use, it already had it's issues but now? Now it's just a slog and just frustrating to use. Honestly, you won't get more respect from your enemies when you kill them, hell you play infiltrator? That alone means you don't get the respect you deserve, you either play HA or you get no respect at all.

The only thing this nerf has done, is allow the people that whined the hardest about knifes. To be more disrespectful when they survive because despite them making a mistake, you can't punish them hard enough for it. It literally made people more toxic, because now they know it's been nerfed, there's no ramifications for them being toxic. It just encourages them, and in fact if they do get knifed they feel even more humiliated because they just got killed by a underused/underpowered playstyle.

The only time they will learn to respect something, is by playing it. And let's be honest, the sweaty 3KD + HA mains that are the main perpetrators? You know damn well they won't try anything BUT HA+LMG because Knifing is just straight up not competing with that playstyle in terms of KD. You don't have to get into the thick of the fight, you have an overshield, you can hide behind cover and heal, you can literally shoot anything that moves towards you, barely have to reload, like why would you ever play anything else but a HA+LMG for farming KD? There's no point.

If you get dinked by a sniper, stop being out in the open, if you get stabbed, raise your awareness. Also yes VS knife is relatively quiet. Nerfing the knife was never about being fair, it is seen as a disruption to farming newbies, hence why it is 'bad'.

And with good reason, as Powerknifes are way harder to hit.

I wouldn't consider 1-hits bad, when there's a big downside to em. Bolters require quick reacts and insane accuracy at short range. Sniper insane accuracy at longer range, with almost no defense when in CQC. Shotgunners, require them to be close to you to hit all pellets. Power-knifers literally have to spell your breath in order to kill you, especially with this ridiculous nerf, making them alost useless as you might as well use literally any of the above.

Honestly, if it would mean they would make it so the knife "warms up" or "Revs up" for a second. That could work, but this current change just makes it utterly pointless.

this helps only so much depending on the ammount of players fighting within a given area along with how good/bad the latency is ..


the biggest critique comes from the case of players not being able to react to the infil uncloaking in time
and there is hardly anything you can do when you are allready fighting one infantryside and the knifer gets in your flank or back ..

AND there is the problem with lack of recon options for non infils ..
again how difficult was it to ohk knife people as non cloakers? .. how much less difficult was it as a cloaker?

in any case you would want to be aware of anything going on as much as possible anyway ...

Pretty much. There's a plentyful arsenal of OHK weapons that are pretty much impossible to defend against, the Power-knife is not one of them.

"A key component is how it makes people feel. Everything that makes you feel like you lost the ability to prevent it (regardless of this being true) is seen as a bad thing."

This is like saying, we should remove Heavy assaults because they feel cheesy to me. If we'd nerf based on how things feel, regardless if it's true or not, the only thing we'd have is just a bunch of Heavy Mains playing Call of Dooty. No vehicles, no other classes, no nothing. You never enjoy dying, to anything, because the point of the game is to not die.

The fact of the matter is, that you can counter a cloaker with a OHK knife, people just don't want to because the 'meta' dictates they shouldn't trade something on their loadout in order to counter cloakers because it would make them less effective against others, even if it is by a small margin.

"To see all these people complain so loudly about a "niche, just for fun" item should tell you how niche and just for fun it is. Just like the Betel isnt OP at all, its just fun!"

Differences there are; Comparatively to other LMGs the Betel outshines other LMGs, hence OP. In fact LMGs in general outshine most guns. A sniper shot in the head should OHK you, a shotgun should OHK you, a AP tankshell should OHK you. Thing a lot of people won't admit you have a lot of breathing space BEFORE you get one-shot. Positioning and awareness is key, to a degree even hesh lightnings fall under that because if you see a hill overlooking your position with 6 lightnings on them, you're bound to get hit.

This is pretty much my take on it, all of the infantry one-shot can be very much countered by having the awareness, or skill to not getting yourself in danger. However when it comes to vehicles? An ESF? A harraser? You can't escape that, despite them taking damage from small arms it's negligible at best.

Even if something doesn't directly affect you, you should be objective and look at it from such a way. Like I barely play Heavy and yet even I find the Adrenaline shield nerf a bit too much. As for the Powerknife, this is literally doubling it's already inconsistent TTK.

I mean, 'headshot meta'. You'll always have that in an FPS. And going off of people's 'feelings' is a bad metric. There will be a lot of things that people will feel bad over, that's why you get better at the game and learn to counter it and deal with it.

You can't nerf the effectiveness of a cloak due to the poor latency, and there's no cloakers who de-cloak in your face. In which every ability would need a 2 second charge. And considering the same Powerknife suffers exactly from that, maybe it's time to just fix the latency issues.

I literally linked it in another post where I argued with you, which was on the PTS. But since you're asking;


This is from a mate of mine, who's absolutely done with this update because of this. Which is big reason as to why this needs to be reversed. The man has a K/D of 1.4 as a knife main, how does make the OHK Powerknife OP? It makes no sense whatsoever. This is a man who knows what he's talking about when he says this nerf was bull**** and has been saying the exact thing I have been saying as well.

You're telling me that somehow a 1.4 KD Knifer is OP but a 3 KD+ Heavy Assault+LMG (and that's lowballing it) is not?

This whole arguing about the Powerknife being OP cuz OHK and "You need more time to react" Or "You need to make headshots with a KNIFE" is just ridiculous, since we know the issues that plague Powerknifes and knifes in general. All because of a toxic/salty mindset of people thinking they're 'too skilled' to be knifed.

Usually people 'reacting' involves HA wanting to pop their IWIN button to save themselves. Whilst the whole point of cloaker is to catch people off-guard so they have no time to react.

If you are fighting one infantryside, you need to secure your flanks. It's a very common thing in all FPS, especially in an MMOFPS. you should expect you might be engaged from another side than the one you're shooting in.

Infils having Recon options make sense, that's kinda their whole shtick. Whilst a Engi does have the QCX Crossbow with recon attachement. You should have Infil around firing recon darts, or recon devices near flanks. For my squad when I do tactical play, this is exactly what I do. I hunt flankers, I set up mines, I set up recon darts, I countersnipe.

It incentivizes people to play together instead of lonewolfing. However Planetside2 has more and more drifted from that concept since the implementation of Implants, medkit, and that sorts of stuff. HA used to be balanced in that way where their shield had negatives, where they don't have near infinite survivability. Now they can go around a corner, pop a medkit and they're good, using implants to regain HP/shield and ability energy. They're almost completely self-sufficient in a game about teamplay. Back then they had to look for a Medic to get their HP back, and their shields had downsides which could not be negated.

As for your question; It's about the same difficulty, since we all suffer from the same issues where Knifing is unreliable, people can run away and somebody else kills you, friendly fire kills you, you get spotted too early, etc.


The Stats I linked here are from a non-infil HA, Knifer. Whilst he has more bulk with his shield, we have stealth. But we both have about the same KD at the end of a knife only night simply due knifes already being unreliable and not a good way to get a lot of kills. We do it for fun, for the challenge of fighting people with RANGE over us, with a knife. About using an underpowered playstyle and make the most of it, which now got made even more niche and underpowered because they took away the one thing that made it somewhat viable. Not even competative, cuz we can't compete with a 3KD + HA in any way.

In any way, mind your flanks, have someone guard them place mines, recon devices, or outright hold the flank instead of staring into one direct it's exactly as you put it:

^HYPERBOLE ALERT^

I mean we arent even talking about deleting stuff outright but changing stuff. Also we are talking about overall enjoyment and not specifics of one group hating on another. Like the overall consensus of the Infil OHK knifers here that "it must be them HA's who got our knives nerfed!". Which is stupid since I haven't seen anyone even attempt to try and classify which people complaining about OHK knives are actually HA mains or not.

You are fighting straw men and your bias is so massive you cant even see the truth. You cant reasonably protect against OHK knives, and the 1.4KD you mentioned as "poor" is likely a ludicrously high KD.

In fact I just looked around on Fisu, and the top players manage to above 1 and sometimes even above 2.2 KD. you will say "see! Even the top players can barely get above 1 KD!" But that is because you miss how knife KD is counted.
Knives are counted as if you always have then equipped. With a pistol or primary they only count as equipped when you are actually holding them in your hands, so a death only impacts its KD when you die holding them. A knife on the other hand counts as equipped even when you arent quick-knifing or wielding them. Every single death ever has impacted the KD of the knife in your loadout.

So a player who has a 2 KD on a OHK knife has had more kills than total deaths just having it equipped. And many of their deaths will have been when they weren't actively knifing, but for example using a pistol, SMG, a Carbine etc. So to make up for that they have to have a much higher actual KD when using it to achieve such KD's.

Or its because the tools for it suck balls and are actually a nerf?
The Darklight is a perfect example. Its short range but reveals the users presence from farther away, tipping off cloakers before they are found and tipping off enemies of your approach prematurely giving them the edge. It also has a ludicrously narrow FOV. Its also useful against only one class while other items that go in that slot are useful against all other classes and give a distinct advantage so you are nerfing yourself against all other classes just to tip off a cloaker that you might be looking for them.
On top of that its been bugged for a long time and doesnt actually spot cloakers when you get too close, which basically cuts 1/3rd of the effective range away, if not more. Only noobs get spotted and killed by a Darklight, anyone else will at the very least murder the Darklight user moments before they discover them and then potentially die to other players nearby.

That is not a reasonable counter to expect players to use. That is not some "but mah meta" complaint, that is simple logic: the tool has more downsides than upsides, takes a slot that can be used against all classes instead of just one, is bugged and warns the very thing its trying to detect well before its ever discovered.
Frankly from a counter I would expect it to be effective, not nerf the user just to warn their target.

There is some reasonable space to try to completely avoid a HESH spammer, but it requires you to deliberately give up playing in a part of the game's space. However you still CAN avoid them. You cant avoid a Stalker OHK knifer. The tools available are either available on the very thing you try to kill or are a direct nerf to the user. While it is possible to still spot them in advance the advantage is entirely at the Infiltrator, not the would-be spotter.

You are conveniently ignoring that it takes less skill and awareness for the OHK knifer to counter the users of awareness. In fact you treat any potential method of stopping an Infil as a hard counter even though the most dedicated anti-infil tools are soft counters themselves.


I could go on fighting your bias, hyperbole, stawmen and especially your whataboutisms, but that wont do anything to stop your bias. Suffice it to say that there are systemic problems in the game when dealing with a variety of weapons and equipment in the game. A simple lengthening of the decloak on Infils to 2 second decloak for example could already have solved 99% of the problems with the Infil and pushed it into the flanking sneaky role its always supposed to have rather than the in-your-face decloak attacks that have been the norm for years now.
HA's being the "main" class? A systemic problem of how the game glorifies kills and KD above much of the rest of the game. The solution is not to nerf or remove the HA, but to shift the TAB screen, Directives and auraxium medals towards completing secondary&teritary objectives and killing/destroying high value targets over the weakest infantry.
Vehicles overpowering infantry can be handled through nanite costing deployables to help protect infantry (which creates some of the extra objectives to complete, both deploying and destroying them). As well as offering a variety of nanite costing lethal and nerfing weapons to infantry to even the battlefield between them and vehicles.

And that way many things can be balanced and improved without going for your dumb "only HA's and nothing else" scenario.

i didn't understand the powerknife nerf tbh, but it makes sense since everything is nerfed in this game.

Changing stuff to the point where the original purpose of the weapon, is reduced to such a degree that it can no longer serve what it was made for. I.E. The Powerknife. No, it's about the toxic/salty HA mains who are the loud minority which is the issue. To them, you should not be able to be engaged whilst their shields are down. Which has been a very common theme in Planetside 2. It's an example of how a salty/toxic minority can cause issues like this to arise, but when thinking logically instead of relying on the 'feelings' of this loud minority, you'd see that the change is stupid.

The pot calling the kettle black, kind of ironic if you ask me Mr.Strawman;

You talk about the 'truth' yet you want the devs to nerf things based on 'it doesn't feel good I'm upset'. The truth is; There are counters to Infils, to OHK knifes, people just don't want to use them because it requires effort and they rather complain about them so it gets nerfed because people such as yourself perpetuate this crap.

And what even is this rambling?! My brother in Christ, every time you die it gets tallied up to your Deaths, vs every time you make a kill with a knife. Hence a dude with 40k knife kills vs his deaths has a 1.4 KD with a knife. A dude with a god damn LMG as Heavy has an average KD of 3 or higher.

All I hear is how 'OP' the OHK knife is, how can it be OP when in 40k kills he has a KD of 1.4. And the average Heavy main has a KD of over 3. If you have a KD lower than 2 you get laughed at most of the time. It's very clear that 1.4KD is considered on the low end of the scale yet OHK knifes are OP? How do you not get this?! Their logic doesn't add up, I have provided you with the evidence. How can a weapon be 'OP' yet their stats and stats of most knifers do NOT reflect this? That simply does not add up.

The whole point of this, that the people who mainly complain are the ones farming zergs and getting stabbed because they have the awareness of a potato.

They work as intended, as someone who religiously hunts other Infils with said tools. And actually a nerf? You see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You see it as a direct nerf to yourself, as you're trading in an attachment which isn't meta. Thus proving my entire point.

My brother in christ. You make the loadout, you make that choice to not use it. That is on you.
"Omg, land vehicles are so OP because I chose to get an AA launcher instead in my loadout over an AT launcher." and vice versa.

You keep claiming Darklights are broken, have provided no evidence of this because at some point about several years ago an update supposedly broke them. Which they fixed like eons ago.

So you admit you can be zoned out of a space due to the aforementioned things, you can counter them by avoid sightlines. Have you tried to secure your flanks? Mines? Turrets? Awareness? Not exposing your back?

Here you go again, with that same mindset proving my point "are a direct nerf to the user." REEEEE Anything META for my gun is bad. No, it's not. It's YOUR choice to put it on there or not. So you understand the concept of spotting them? And you then realize that when you spot them their advantage becomes a disadvantage? As said stalker with OHK knife will be: At range with a melee weapon, has to decloak, and then run at you. You have a gun, you have range, you are at an advantage. Congrats you succesfully countered A stalker cloaker.

You are conveniently ignoring any evidence given, any counter arguments, and straight up logic. You're so biased and stuck in your own world that's looping itself around. Yet you're constantly contradicting yourself, and proving my exact point. You want to ruin this game by nerfs based on your subjective opinions and that of a loud minority who are too lazy and self-absorbed to admit they're wrong.

"it takes less skill and awareness for the OHK knifer to counter the users of awareness." "We should nerf weapons because it makes players feel bad" "I don't feel like the counters provided are worth it" "I don't want to work on my awareness, it's too hard" "I feel like they're OP, despite evidence provided saying otherwise"

Like I could go on and on, by like I said before in my PTS post; If you can't handle looking at a change in a objective manner, don't bother to post. Your contractions, your bias, your toxic/salty mindset coupled with strawmen arguments and your lack of understanding of this issue as a whole is the exact reason as to why illogical nerfs like this happen.

" A simple lengthening of the decloak on Infils to 2 second decloak for example" This would solve 1 problem and create 5 new ones. Which again you conveniently ignore.

That was a hypothetical scenario in which it would end up in if people such as yourself and the other loud minority of the playerbase would get what they want. You don't want discussion, you just want the devs to nerf anything that you don't play. Which falls back on the whole notion of: You conveniently ignore factual statements, overwhelming evidence and counter-arguments. Why? Because you don't care. It's not your playstyle so therefor you're against it, which is exactly why you're biased and shouldn't be in here.

Again, please be productive or go off somewhere else.

There's honestly no logic in it. It's a representation of what happens when somebody doesn't play/understand a certain playstyle and try to make changes on it based on the subjective opinions of the loud minority of players, who equally do not understand how it works, or do understand but would actively be against it because it would promote their playstyle further to have the other playerstyles nerfed.

And this is all you do right? You are blaming HA players for the change but I have yet to see any evidence. Which players are these mythical vocal minority that want the powerknife gone? What EFFECTIVE counters are there against cloakers that dont force you into a single class or nerf you or require more skill to detect and deal with the cloaker than it takes for the cloaker to sneaknup and kill you?

You scream a lot but dont provide any logic, you use useless single sentences without elaboration (there's counters to cloakers!) And build strawmen arguments everywhere. I mean you say I create strawmen even when I quite literally respond to your own partial arguments.

I am blaming the loud minority such as yourself, and it just so happens that most of the loud minority who yell their braincells away tend to be HA mains, as they are often the ones most obessed with thing that disturb their farm, IVI rating, or whatever metric they can come up with. It's an observation, I am not going round making a powerpoint presentation or a youtube video of toxic/salty reaction of HA mains in-game, in the forums or Reddit.

No offense, but I've proven you wrong enough for that be not be needed.

Which makes me come back to the other point, of you again willfully ignoring counter-arguments, evidence.. To cherry pick an argument about it being HA mains who cause this change? Even though I specifically said the loud minority, of which a large portion happen to be HA mains, due to my own experience and also the sheer fact the HA class tend to be the most competitive due to them having the best anti-infantry capabilities. It is only a natural conclusion that the ones who are so uppity about KD are the ones who care most about it.

ANYWAY, another useless argument aside.

My brother in Christ. Read back the posts for once. You keep repeating yourself when someone gives you an answer, then you conveniently ignore that answer, because of some subjective narrative you try to create where 'effective counters' against cloakers don't exist, and we should 'nerf'' anything that hurt your feelngs.

If the Devs/game haven't been able to spoonfeed you enough on how to defeat cloakers, then there's no hope in that department. I'm not here to spoonfeed you, only for you to continue to ignore reality and substitute your own. I'm here to hold a discussion with people who understand that there's a problem that needs fixing, and how to go about doing so. People who are intelligent enough to digest information, rather than having it spoonfed to them. If someone actually brings up a valid counter-point as to why we should keep this nerf, then I will gladly debate that. But you aren't that someone.

Good luck in your own reality, you're free to leave people to have a more productive discussion.

Pretty apt summary of your own posts, tbh.

Pretty good summary of your own posts as well, as in non-productive, useless and devoid of content. But nice try.
Anyway, off you go!

https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=sumowning&show=weapons

That you? Regardless, got any more relevant/recent characters that show off some other experience?

This is pretty much you, all the time.

I mean you've insulted me several times, pretending I scream and implying I'm with the loud minority that screams their braincells away and then you go "no offense"

You are a troll, a sad one at that. You throw word diarhea instead of an actual arguments, you are a hypocrite who says other people do the exact thing you are repeatedly doing. You demonize a "vocal minority", ridicule them and say they are the cause so you dont have to provide any actual argument. Everything you say is suddenly logical even when theres not a shred of logic to be found... I mean the list goes on.

Ofcourse while HA's are the most used single class and would thus have the most people complaining, there are also more than enough players who dont main them that say its a bad mechanic. Because averaging across populations is a thing you know.
Funnily enough the most vocal loud minority is the Infiltrators who lost an obviously powerful toy.

So unless you have anything better than word diarhea, echo chambering with your fellow circle jerkers and living in your own reality while loudly complaining that you are the only one marching correctly there's no more proper response to give than Troll.

Troll.

You do not seem to get it do you? This weak willed call to nerfing that you support is causing many many more issues than leaving people alone. If you are going to remove most of the reality from the game, then remove it all. The game should be hit scan instead of bullet drop if you are some how not going to kill someone with a laser sword or chainsaw by severing their spine. If I stab you in the chest, I can absolutely kill you in one hit, especially with a heavy knife, to say nothing of if I had a knife with a 5,000 degree blade, or a Turkey Carver. We have something called a HUMAN HEART. Nick it, and you will bleed out and die in seconds.

People will simply move to something that will one hit kill that they are not going to nerf. A shotgun and a Cloak works just fine especially when not restricted by walking. And me and my A.N.T.? People now WISH I had my cloaking truck. They made it 10 times worse for everyone.

You crying about one hit kills by being stabbed tell me one thing. You are a victim of good players and no matter what they take away, until you all stop blaming others for your own deaths and miscalculations, that will never change.

And ofcourse you would throw your insanity behind the OHK knifers. If anyone needed convincing that the OHK knifers are in the wrong, this support proves it.

Also on Fisu you can check the amount of deaths by particular weapons, and my death count by these OHK knives would be almost non-existant due to the playstyle I use and the likelyhood of OHK knifers being present there. However that does not mean that I do not understand how they operate, in fact I've done my fair share of OHK knifing WITHOUT the crutches of Stalker cloak since I am well able to approach and stab players without having to use permanent cloaks and waiting around for an opportunity, I can make the opportunity.

Yup. It's not worth it. This is all just part of the progressive plan to keep nerfing the weakest class until the whining stops. Amaterasu recently nerfed as well.

It's not that infs have any sort of advantage. It's that being killed by an inf is embarrassing. People will square off in a hamburger hill fight and get killed by an HA ten times and not *****, and then get stabbed by an inf and post a tirade about how cloakers are a cancer.

The weakest class? Thats either the Medic despite its AR or the Engi, who is mostly useful as a vehicle pilot and not as much as a direct combat class.

The Infil is arguably the strongest class. While not as braindead easy as activating your shield, the cloak is the most powerful tool with any weapon compared to any class. Knives, Pistols, SMG's, Shotguns, Carbines, AR's, LMG's, Scout Rifles, BR's, sniper rifles all benefit immensely from having cloak. The fact that pistol, knife and SMG builds are the most viable on Infils is proof enough of that.

Yeah they cant cloak at all! No advantage there!

You are mixing two different things and wrongly too. Being killed by a guy who is almost guaranteed to get the drop on you is not exactly embarrassing. And while the 10 fights with HA's give a satisfying loop where you can improve and get better, its not that easy to learn how to defeat the knifer who just hangs around and waits for the right opportunity, which is the whole point of the cloak: you get the time to either wait for an opportunity or get to detect and fight first.