rebalance infiltrators

Great CQC Inf KDR, nowhere near the top of the scoreboard:



The result of 2.5 hours of careful, patient gameplay. In that time, everyone else had many more kills - but they also had many more deaths. There is no correlation between high KDR and a need to rebalance unless the class is dominating the scoreboard.

I dont see how, I played Inf for 2 years an my kills are below even the worst of players lol. People just dont wanna play together, or protect themselves from infs. They rather devs do it for them. The one class in game that dies in under 2 seconds flat every single time.
I wish you young lads would stop seeing KDR as some sort of bible of gaming skills. It isnt. KDR was made to keep the young teens happy an focused. For everyone els, it has no meaning.

Not only am I easily the most experienced infiltrator player on this thread here, but also the best player in general most likely. I have played with and against the best infiltrators in the game, all who share the same sentiment as I do. The fact that the Forumside consensus is so far off the meta and what is considered good or not, shows how disconnected the average player is from what the actually good infantry playerbase has known for years.

Could it be that I keep repeating points and yet the people here keep not understanding it? I know that many here lack a fundamental understanding of skilled play, so why should I repeat the same points over and over again. At some point there's no reason to keep responding.

A single bullet is anywhere from 125 to 200 damage usually. As you say, a medkit gives you 500 HP, meaning you can take multiple of those bullets, rather than just one. It's truly mind-boggling that you are being serious here, but it's a testament to my claims about Forumside in general.

I assumed that this was you: https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=campagne. Thus my judgement of your skill.

You okay, bud?

Spotting at least requires you to have Line of Sight onto your enemy at some point, motion detection gives you the spot for free.

OHK means One-Hit-Kill. Aka the activateavble knives.

Wow, you could etach all of us mere mortals how to play ?... I had no idea you were just an elite fighting machine lol

Making up your own reality isn't an argument for balance.

You do realize that you can still walk, right? If you see multiple enemies (which you wouldn't even know of if you played any other class), then you can simply move to a better position. If you are surrounded, you didn't pay enough attention to your minimap.

Come to Jaeger and see for yourself if you don't believe me.

Better exaggerate to get the point across rather than make things up because I don't know what I'm talking about. Example: "I'm going to take this opportunity to point out again that in the really, really, real reality of the game right now, when an Infiltrator and a Heavy Assault walk into a bar 99% of the time the one who walks out again isn't the one holding the sniper rifle."

Because I don't think I have to? The definition of the word seems pretty obvious to me. Game-breaking means quite literally that the game cannot be played anymore. Evidently you can log into Planetside right now and play, so it is not a gamebreaking issue.

Yes.. I agree. And isn't that something that should be fixed for the better of every player's enjoyment of the game? If not for every veteran, then at least for every new player coming to PS2 surely?

Perfectly remember it. If you read what I wrote, you'll see the distinction I made between "the vast majority of players" and "good players". Two groups that are worlds apart.

As stated previously, in an equal skill duel the deciding factor logically is the player's weapons and equipment. Which means that an infiltrator would win this (obviously theoretical) equal skill engagement 100% of the time.

This doesn't make my claim of imbalance any less valid though. The initial iteration of the Canis SMG was blatantly OP. But if you gave that to any average player, they probably still wouldn't have performed any insane killstreaks. Yet any good player using the Canis turned into a god. Bolting has a similar issue, just not of that magnitude. Nevertheless, it doesn't seem right that anyone can decide to play infiltrator and suddenly start performing outside of their "skill bracket" at no cost or effort whatsoever.

Infiltrator complaints have been numerous over the years, and the top players will tell everyone that asks if infiltrator is balanced the same thing that I've been saying here. Frequently we see infiltrator balance requests pop up (this very thread being one of them). But we know all too well that valid requests for balance are not met with timely responses (see NC MAXes being blatantly overpowered for 6 years). And as I've stated previously, infiltrators are not at such a drastic imbalance as MAXes, but they are (and have been for years) in a place where they could be better brought in line with the rest of the classes.

Now look at any above average player and how they can effortlessly pull a 6+ KD with over 120 Kills per Hour and punch far above their weight just by pulling infiltrator.

That's an issue with you then.

The Time To Kill on headshots is below half a second, any class will die in under 2 seconds every time.But as opposed to other non-HA classes, the infiltrator gets 35% damage resistance when cloaked (on top of 1k HP), so they can retreat with more HP than any medic, LA or Engineer could.

If you go to https://ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=10 and look there for top players of the hour, then go checking their personal stat-pages, you will see that many of them have Ghost, Tsar or SASR in first 5 strings of weapon usage.
Many of, lets say, "high skill" player have close range BASRs as their preferable weapon.
You can also look at most used weapons at the same page https://ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=10
Don't pay attention to starter weapon strings and you will see the same Ghost, Tsar or SASR there.
In any other MMO this is clear evidence that these weapons are OP. And in any other MMO this issue would be fixed.
I'm not against all sniper weapons or invisibility, just these 3 rifles.

I think you forget that it is a sniper. 120 kills per hour is 2 kills per minute. That is 30 seconds per kill, AKA 30 seconds of waiting for that kill and then executing. You can pull that off because of patience and not missing. If you miss, that alerts enemies to where you are, and then you are more likely to die, hence adding to a better KDR. A 6 KDR means 6 kills for every 1 death. 120 kills means you died 20 times. All in all, that is pretty good, but you are adding no variables. Realistically, finding a place where you can make 6 kills spanning 3 minutes means you have to find a place where you won't be killed and sit there for that long, and a place that is visible enough and has high enough traffic for you to pull off 6 kills without dying or being noticed. Say everyone is a battle rank 120 and they aren't dirt stupid, and you are too. If anyone has map awareness and sees the blip on the map because you are too close when you shoot, that BR120 will come for you. Say you are far enough away for them not to see it. It is now a bit harder to hit the head. Say you miss 1 shot. You have hit 5/6 of your shots. The BR120 that you missed on now knows there is an Infiltrator there, and they will come to find you judging on which direction the shot came from. Now you are dead. Say, instead of missing, you hit the body. You are still probably gonna die, even if you score the kill. Why? You shot them once, they turn in that direction and are a bit confused, you shoot them again from that same direction, they respawn, they come back to find you and they kill you. That is typically how it goes. I am only a BR 46 on one account and a BR 43 on the other, but I play Infiltrator a lot. I was on yesterday, and I was shooting with another Infiltrator. I wanted to see how it would go. Lemme just say, we wreaked havoc on that point, but we also got spotted a whole lot more because there were 2 of us. We died because a dude came up behind us, even though we had recon and saw it. We couldn't find him and he flew up and killed us.

You are probably judging if something is OP like how you would judge if something is OP in any other 6v6 arena shooter game. You judge by kills and how easy it is. If we were going to judge like that, we can just throw other weapons into the mix too. Hey, the Tanto is feeling pretty easy and racks up kills nicely. Hey, that ESF banshee gun is doing too well. Lets get rid of that too. Hey, that chaingun mounted on a fast vroomie vroom is too hard to fight. Lets get rid of that as well. The thing is, Planetside is not a 6v6 arena shooter game. It is a combined arms initiative game. You have so many more variables with that, because winning isn't based off the number of kills you get and balance isn't based off the number of kills you get. I can understand you not liking snipers and not liking a class, but you can't call it unbalanced just because it is a killing machine at long range and has a sniper built for close-mid range. Infiltrators bring less to the table in terms of contributing to the battle than the other classes do, but it helps kill stuff. All the classes do stuff and more, but Infiltrators are pretty much just a one trick pony. They kill infantry, and they kill infantry. Oh wait, I forgot. They kill infantry. Did I mention they kill infantry? If you are going to argue unbalance, look at how it contributes to a battle. Look to see if it wins. Nobody here defending Infiltrators really cares about how good it is at killing. If something is unbalanced, it would (A) be the best tool and obvious choice for winning, (B) very easy to win with, and (C) do its job super well. It needs to fulfill those requirements before considering anything in Planetside "OP" and "unbalanced."

Sir, I am the President of the United States and my Rich uncle owns DBG.... I don't like your tone

No, I'm pretty sure it's just ignoring my points because they cannot be contested. If you look closely, you'll see that you've just done so once again.

Funny thing though, I cannot retaliate with a medstick in hand nor can I until I've drawn a weapon. If I'm healing myself with the AoE heal even in combat the shots it would take to kill me would increase by a value greater than one and at the very same time I would be firing back at my opponent. That is, assuming I was not already at full heath and shields prior to an engagement due to the infinite number of activations I would have on the ability over the sticks.

Why use a limited number of heals which temporarily disable my offensive abilities when I can heal myself for longer for free even while firing a weapon? The auxiliary shield is a cherry on top, further increasing the shots to kill on me by one in most cases.

Is I, yes. However I cannot help but feel you didn't take a very good look.



The Longshot is my favourite weapon, which must be obvious given even a cursory glance at my character. As it just so happens, it's an infiltrator-only weapon. But what's relevant here is the M++ accuracy which, according to Dasanfall, puts me in the top 0.125% of all players in terms of accuracy.

To put this into perspective, your character http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/TobiMK (whom you are playing as right now as I type ) only has three guns which come even close to the same delta: The Charger, Tanto, and NS-11C. All of which have been used for less than four hours and have relatively few kills each.

I've fired my Longshot 17,790 times and have still maintained one of the highest accuracies on the bell curve. A delta higher than any of your weapons by a large margin. Believe me, I'm a pretty good shot.

The joke wasn't very funny I'll admit, so I'll forgive it that it went over your head.

Again, infiltrators do not exist in a vacuum. There are generally more than just an infiltrator and his target in an area. Allies will spot enemies, and then all players on that faction will see the same enemy.

So the infiltrator?

So the infiltrator?

So the infiltrator?

I fully agree.

ok

You'd have to be right for your points to be irrefutable.

Because battles go on for more than one engagement and you're putting yourself at a big disadvantage and long downtime if you're not running medkits.

You conveniently forgot to add your Kills per Hour into that screenshot. Your Kills per Hour on the Longshot is 29. This in combination with your KD tells me that you are completely removed from the fight and hardly participate at all. Long-range sniping with a high accuracy is about as meaningless as it gets in terms of playstyles. Obviously the accuracy will be high when you've got minutes to line up your shots.

For reference, I snipe within close ranges and kill 4-5 times as many people as you per hour. And I retain higher accuracy than that. Obviously not on weapons that I used 4-5 years ago, but then again, your old weapons have far lower accuracy than mine ever had.

Furthermore I'm looking at your SAS-R. I assume you used that in closer ranges? Your dramatic drop in accuracy and KDR supports my claim that your stats are merely inflated through risk-averse playstyles. Compare that to my Daimyo, which is one of my most recent snipers and used exclusively in CQC. That runs at 60% accuracy, 6.6 KD and 130 Kills per Hour. You can check out my most recent sniper character ("luckstaaaVS"), if you want more stats for reference.

Again, this character was the first I ever played on, obviously most guns won't have amazing stats. Feel free to check out my current set of Miller characters though if you want to see my actual accuracy with automatic guns.

https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=1carapaceplease&show=weapons
https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=2carapaceplease&show=weapons
https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=3carapaceplease&show=weapons

I'll believe it when you deliver numbers that aren't derived from extremely risk-averse/passive gameplay.

If anything, what you're saying here goes in favor of my argument. A HA has to rely on intel from their allies if they want the same level of map knowledge that an infiltrator can get on his own.

You're not on top of the scoreboard because you're sitting somewhere removed from the fight and not getting any kills.

I'm kinda baffled why you think being half decent with that weapon invalidates the rest of your stats? The only decent weapon stats you actually have are pistols, which I am pretty confident in assuming are from stalker cloak kills given your low as hell KPM; similar to why your accuracy is good on a weapon that has almost no drop, long range archetype, on a class that has stealth that makes you invisible at range and clears spots... which also has an atrocious kpm.

I'm god awful at sniping and despise infiltrator, and I not only have a higher KDR than your snipers but also a higher KPM.

Your stats actually go further to prove the point of how pulling infil is a direct power upgrade; your stats as any other class, including heavy, are pretty mediocre to god awful. Yet, slap the pistols on a stalker infil or snipe and you do half decent.

Well, fancy that then, huh? As it just so happens, I am.

No, I am not. If I have suffered any heath damage I'd need to wait for my shields to regenerate regardless of whether I used the ability or medsticks. After four of such engagements I'd be completely dry on medsticks and would have to go on without them or find a terminal.

Actually I intentionally did not include my KPH because it would be pointless. I don't know about anyone else, but I spend a lot of time not immediately fighting. Lots of chatting with friends mostly, otherwise there'd be no point to this game being multiplayer. But I also end up AFK more often than I'd like to be and frequently spend time in menus or moving around, especially with my Longshot. Do you really think I spent over eight entire days staring through a scope? This is a trend you can actually see fairly consistently for me, I generally don't spend 100% of my time fighting.

As for KDR, I just generally don't die with my rifle in-hand. Most other snipers aren't even going to hit me and anyone who gets close typically answers to my sidearm. Mostly vehicles that get me when I have my rifle out because they do it instantly without a direct hit and a pistol isn't going to help in that situation either.

Long-range sniping with a high accuracy is about as meaningless as it gets in terms of playstyles. Obviously the accuracy will be high when you've got minutes to line up your shots.[/quote]

As for this part specifically, try shooting from long range without good accuracy and see how far that get's you. Secondly, if this were true 59% accuracy wouldn't be in the top eighth of a percent.

Furthermore, I actually aim and fire quite quickly to catch other snipers in the very small window of opportunity one has between the target uncloaking, firing, and recloaking.

Hilariously, this isn't true. All of your sniper rifles have much lower accuracy. Furthermore, as I said you were playing that character today. Some of my weapons have awful stats because I used them when I was very new to the game and ran with 15FPS. I didn't start with a Longshot and you didn't either. Even your Moonshot has much lower accuracy.

Actually, I'm just not very good with the SAS-R. That's really all there is to it. Hence why I haven't really used it much compared to basically every other one of my guns. I think it's a mentality that stresses me out trying to hit the first headshot every time, whereas I did fine with headshots on similar weapons and on completely different weapons on top. But whatever the reason, the thing doesn't click with me.

Looking at your Daimyo, I see exactly what I already told you: On the bell curve for the weapon you're not as far ahead of the average as I am with my Longshot with less than a 1.3% difference in accuracy.

Clearly it would seem it is much more difficult to make shots at very long ranges than it is to fire at shorter ranges.

My character is the first I've ever played on. What difference does it make?

Also looking at these stats always surprises me. Only 44.6% accuracy with a Reaper is considered "S++?" From an outside perspective we must all seem like complete trash-tier players.

But regardless I'm getting signals lighting up from all across the board here. Your "TobiMK" character, whom again you still play to this day, doesn't have nearly as good stats as these three. Not only is there a suspicious consistency between the three, but there is a suspicious lack of consistency between TMK and those three.

Again, even if I only ever played a minimal risk role (which you can go ahead and ask a lot of different Vanu and Terran and they will tell you otherwise) it would not detract from my accuracy. If it were the case, one would expect 59% to be only average or slightly above. And yet, it is once again leagues above.

No, if anything it continues to demonstrate why your argument is flawed. Infiltrators rely on their allies for support and spotting just as much as anyone else. Motion spotters are easily defeated while allies provide everyone with information otherwise unobtainable. And as you've already been told, recon darts on the crossbow are available to everyone.

Who the heck are you talking to? Me, presumably? Use the quote button please!

If by "half decent" you mean "one of the best!" However if you actually bother to look at my stats you'll find I frequently fall above average for many many weapons.

Again, if playing infiltrator automatically made user accuracies much higher, my stats wouldn't be great anymore. They'd be average. Also I just really like using pistols.

I take it you've never used a Longshot/equivalent at long range.

Anyone can achieve a very high KDR and KPM with sniper rifles by only ever using them when trapped in the spawn. This means nothing.

As for my low KPH:

You claim my stats on other classes are "pretty mediocre to god awful." If this was true, you ought to have no difficulty demonstrating this.