[Actually serious] Nerf headshots

Hey, before you rant and proceed to say that this idea is **** (because it probably is), hear me out...

As the title says, I feel that in this game, headshots are overpowered for a couple of reasons, first is that headshots provide such a huge advantage that unlike positioning, flanking and cover, it's not a factor but an I-win condition and completely ignore/remove certain aspects of the game.

Because headshots basically double your DPS, burst damage and damage per mag, there's little to no point to get advantages like cover or a better position. What's the point when you or your opponent just stomps your face with bullets regardless? If you or him headshot better, the battle is already decided. Or the fact that they completely ignore Nanoweave and that due to potentially increased damage per mag Extra Ammunition has little effect unless you're camping/farming a lot.

Skill ceiling and advantages should add and complement to the gameplay, not COMPLETELY and UTTERLY destroy good/interesting mechanics and equipment.


Second is that they kind of make the weapons and attachments themselves imbalanced. High accuracy weapons not only have better accuracy and range, but also can due to consistent headshots out-DPS CQC weapons. A lot of players will defend that this takes skill and that CQC guns are easy to use. I call BS on that. If aiming for an particular area on a very versatile and accurate gun with pretty strong and rounded stats takes skill, what's using a gun that fires for whole 2 seconds, reloads in 3 most of the time, has limited sweet spot range of 20m and effective range of 40-50m and often tends to have godawful recoil and CoF bloom? MLG? Semi-1337?

Attachments are a bit better, but I still consider them imbalanced a bit. Forward grip is superior to laser sight most of the time, because hip-fire is accurate enough for most weapons to be good for a panic/CQC situation, while ADS accuracy is something that extends your range and increase headshot potential whenever you ADS, which is quite fast to do if you aren't ADS.

Finally, a solution

So what's my solution to this self-perceived problem? Reduce the headshot multiplier for all non-sniper non-scout non-battle rifle weapons to 1.5x, and maybe even go a little further and make nanoweave reduce non-sniper non-scout non-battle rifle headshot damage.

Why so much nerf? Because IMHO headshots should be a factor and not an auto-win, just like positioning, just like cover, just like accuracy. All things that a player has should factor up instead of one thing dominating everything and in a way completely ignoring certain advantages and mechanics.

Sniper rifles and the like take skill and have certain disadvantages to compensate for that power, and reducing the headshot multiplier or giving people a resistance to them would completely ruin these weapons. They're supposed to be a high damage high skill weapon that has significant disadvantages in CQC and have high penalties for missing unlike full-auto weapons.

Thanks for reading, and I hope you don't eat me alive for me daring to make this thread...

if you are on the PC version and want to nerf headshots,its not the game,its the amount of hackers/aimbot users that are on the PC version of planet side 2, id advise if you have not already put allot of money time and effort in the PC version is to get the game on the PS4 and play it there.

There are some here's and there's, but I personally like the ability to kill two people in rapid succession if I'm skilled and flank, if there was no way to increase my dps against several targets, a single man flank wouldn't be that powerful even if the player was skilled, knew the map, got the perfect position and timing.

But then there are players that kill 3 people at once with perfect headshots even if all 3 bodyshot him in a we both saw each other situation. Which kind of ***** on teamwork so I dislike it.

I don't like the idea of directional armor on infantry because that would be stupid to code and buggy in implementation due to clientside hit registration.

So again, hard to say.

i'm torn,
the noob in me is actually behind this (as one of the mortals who can't run around dominating squads with headhshots)
but it would suck for the people who are currently borderline invincible because they have practised headshots.

i guess i'd be happy if they reigned the 2x multipliers in a little bit.

no, after practicing my reflexes for years now i finally am automated to go for those head shots
and now you want me to unlearn my behavior

you're intentions are good but everyone who shoots for the head will lose against the players who shoot for body shots
shoot for the head = some bullets will go next to the head
shoot for the body = more bullets will hit
with you're suggestion the body shooter will win every time

That would completely negate even going for the head, seeing as the spread on guns in PS2 is big enough that if the multiplier isn't high enough, you'd likely end up doing less damage than someone shooting for the torso.
Not to mention, without headshots of that multiplier HA and medics likely become stronger and infiltrators that go the stalker route is pretty much screwed over completely and the very thing you mentioned yourself with flanking and positioning means quite a lot less since those sometimes relies on you having that proper time to get the first shot of on the head, and the list goes on and on how it would really mess up the power balance that the game currently has.
I understand where you come from, but PS2 is already a fairly low TTK without headshots and the weapons are imprecise enough that our current model of headshots actually works really well to where high skilled players can't just plow through everything but they still stand to win a fight over someone that is worse than them.

Not to mention it really isn't the end all to everything, I have always had terrible accuracy and terrible HSR (below 20 % on almost everything), but because I am fairly good at prediction, game sense and positioning myself, I can easily hold my own against people that are of far higher caliber than myself in regards to accuracy.

I.. am intrigued by your idea. Headshots do determine the outcome often if not most of the time and 2x damage is a really big advantage. You pretty much don't question it since it's kind of a standard in FPS games, but maybe you're right and we should.

In addition to what you wrote, there's also an effect to faction balance since some ES weapons are more accurate than others or have more predictable recoil patterns. If you can get 25% more consistent headshots (plausible?) with a given weapon compared to it's ES "rivals" that's a flat +25% damage. I don't think any DPS/TTK differences between ES weapons would cover that. Skill should be rewarded, but all factions should have similar potentials for the skill to be applied.

On the hipfire vs. ADS comment, I do agree that forward grip is superior to laser sight most of the time, but then again I would say most of the time in this game you are engaging enemies at medium-long ranges. For those base fights, Hossin or other close encounters laser sights and hip firing will be extremely useful since you will win the ADS equip time worth of DPS every time. I know since I never learned to use laser sights in the settings mentioned above and always die to guys that do.

I don't think NW should cover the head though, it would make it a little too strong I feel. It's already a kinda no-brainer among the **** slots for most of the time, at least for myself. Maybe a new suit slot in the form of headgear could cover this, a choice between increased HUD elements vs. head protection?

As an alternative idea, what about preserving the 2x headshots damage multiplier, but introducing a 1.5x damage multiplier to a slightly-larger-than-head -sized area on the middle of the torso just below the head? This would even out things while still rewarding skill at aiming. It would be realistic too (center mass of body and so on).

I agree, I think if we removed the ability for players with better aim than me to out play me, that my experience would improve tremendously. Any piece of the game where a player can show a difference in skill between with respect to another player should be removed.

My score should also be set to max.

I think one kill headshots probably deter most of the new peeps that try the game out. I have tried bringing in new people but most (not all) said they were fed up being ghost killed., they didn't even feel as though they had a chance to survive.

what about giving the infils a 2 headshot kill instead or head and body kill, at least for new comers, they will feel like that have a chance to change direction or seek cover.

I have trained to aim for the center because of horrid hit-detection make HSs not render, you killed you enemy faster but not by much. So it was more practical to aim for chest area. Plus my accuracy here kinda sucks because you go down insanely fast and at the ranges all the higher tier players ADS in would get you dropped SO FAST if you tried that in game.

Now its the complete opposite and I'm not adjusted, I like the idea a lot I just don't know were to stand on it. The mechanics and TTK are different, the weapons are different, the hit-detection is good, that's the issue. I don't think i can weigh in properly because I'm still new and way out of my comfort playing.

I like this idea and agree to it.

I can somewhat agree, although the lag headshots/lag damage is the most annoying. Turn a corner, instant dead.

Headshot modifiers should perhaps be dependent on RPM and inversely proportional. Shotguns, BASR would have high headshot damage (it fits as they are very specialized).

An SMG with 850ish RPM might have a 1.15 Headshot multiplier.
Slow Battle Rifle/Scout Rifle would have higher due to their RPM.
Rifles around 500 RPM would be middle of table with slower rpm getting better multiplier.

High Velocity Ammunition could perhaps also give a small boost this. (+10% headshot multiplier damage).
Soft Point Ammunition could give a small penalty to this instead of damage range. (-10% headshot multiplier damage - would make soft point a more hip fire ammunition)

Is someone good because they can get headshots with something that sprays? If you get me with a semi-auto battle rifle, I'll citizen kane clap for you.

Just another matchstick on the fire.

well with VS now having no bullet drop and the balistic computer they're going to headshot everything
on top of that they want the BC on their other sniper rifles as well (Phaseshift for example as seen here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/vs-ballistic-computer-for-phaseshift.242005/ )

i'd agree that Headshots especially from the VS snipers is going to be a huge problem and those should at least get a nerf on that so they won't become op.

The only headshot change I would make is making the multiplier go down as you range further out. So a headshot at 10m still does 2x, but a headshot at 60+ meters is only 1.2. I suppose it could be tied to damage fall-off too, although some exceptions would have to be made like SMG's and shotguns, having the multiplier be less strict. Snipers would also need some attention as well.

Agreed.

2x Headshot multipliers are a mess. For *many* different reasons. I fully support your suggested change.

Realize that you're a small, insignificant piece of the puzzle, just like the rest of us as individuals. Try to look at this situation, and all in life for that matter, with an open mind and consider what would be the best course of action for the vast majority of people. Plus, right now there's a 2x multiplier, OP suggested 1.5, maybe it could be 1.65..... It should be somewhere where people with God-tier aiming skillz like yourself can still win, but where body shots for someone who legitimately got the jump on you would triumph.

This doesn't remove skill. This slightly shifts the skill from the ability to control a silly little pointer on the screen with a mouse, to higher level reasoning skills such as positioning, friendly firing angles, group movement..... **** that's used in actual warfare. Plus, when two people face off on even footing, the person with better aim still wins. Your argument is absolutely invalid.

Curent VS "sniper" rifle with ballistic computer needs 2 headshots to kill, at least at sniper-ish range. Phaseshift is kinda hard to use, or in other words, works only on stupid people who stay still long enough to be headshot. NOBODY demanded BC on any other sniper rifle and all of tham have bullet drop as any other sniper rifle. Starter sniper rifle with BC is more like Scout Rifle, and Phaseshift... well, it's something...

We do not know yet what changes to Phasehift will be made but I seriously doubt it will recieve ballistic computer. IMO it is very hard to say what could be changed in Phaseshift. it is a very special gun and it already is on the verge of being OP but at the same time it is very hard to use. If it had decent bullet velocity it would be kinda OP, ballistic computer is the least we should worry about, Hold Breath 1 is more than enough for PS.

Bad idea imo. What do you want, Overwatch as Planetside? Every gun has bad cone of fire and bad damage output unless you're in cqc? No thanks. I'll play Overwatch if I want my aim to not really matter. In exchange for derpy class mechanics and "I won cuz I flanked and used my ultimate you guysh! I'm the player of the game because I moved my worthless mouth breathing body somewhere and pressed one button!".

I would argue that the insta deaths from sources you can't actually fight back against who can farm at extremely rapid speed with extremely low skill (any form of AI from any vehicle for example), probably "deter most of the new peeps that try the game out" and not snipers.

Average bolt action KPH: 20. That's only one kill every 3 minutes.

Meanwhile even consensus "bad" AI weapons like the duster has an average KPH of nearly 80. Lolpods all over 60 KPH. Even Hornets have 60 KPH. HE: 45-50 KPH. Zephyr: 50 KPH. Kobalts on sundies: 60+ KPH. etc.

And you can't really do a damn thing about those as an infantry.

Shotguns are probably more of a frustration than bolt actions, if we're just talking about infantry. MAXes certainly as well. Most bolt players are bad shots and will not kill you unless you stand still or get bodied while engaged in a fight. Not trying to sound elitist in any way, but that's a fact.

As every player has 500hp and 500 overshield. How is it possible to headshot a shield? Shield is a shield. Doesn't matter where on the shield you hit the target.

It would make sense to have headshots only after taking down the shield.

[quote="PatateMystere, post: 3423642, member: 210734"
It would make sense to have headshots only after taking down the shield.[/quote] That would be a cool middle ground for this argument. I think bolt actions should stay a one hit kill weapon though.