[Suggestion] Remove C4 from LA or buff tank HP

the only reason i run c4 over mines is i recently got my aurax c4, and its so pretty ..
otherwise id run mines. mines you can toss and if you dont get that sticky nade out youve still got a good chance the tank is going to die when it moves, being that mines remain on death.

since im running c4 anyway might as well be an LA

otherwise engi with mines. unlimited ammo and explosives that dont vanish, also i have 3

its just as easy to run up on a tank put mines under its butt and shoot/nade them, hell it takes less time to toss those 3 mines and a nade than the 2 c4 and hit the button hit the button please go-off

i cant say it enough, this is an issue of skill, and people needing to get better

For someone who is an expert with C4, you are pushing out pretty thin arguments and just brushing people off with the fact that you have C4 auraxium and tell them to get better. You should include more scenarios and leave room for possibilities in your posts(instead of letting on that C4 is only good against bad players etc.), but this goes for everyone else too
For example: If you hear that a tank has gotten killed by C4, you will call the tank driver bad(instead of thinking about C4 user being good) without giving any consideration to the circumstances. Thus your post becomes biased and my head explodes while reading it

I honestly don't know why your recent posts have gone under my skin so badly since I haven't given many craps about C4 or tanking lately, but don't take it as offense. I came here to see constructive discussion and you could say I'm starving

what do you want me to say?
i tank, a lot, and sometimes i get c4d. some of that was their skill in getting to me or whatever, most of it was me failing to keep moving or keep watch or maybe i was in a place i shouldnt have been..

the point is c4 isnt op

it doesnt need nerfed

and asking to have it and possibly a whole Class removed?.. THAT is what should be getting under your skin

You have no knowledge of modern tank engineering do you?

I agree with you that this thread is unnecessary and I should probably chill down. I also agree with your point, but in case you want to avoid weirdos like me in the future then you shouldn't rub your opinions into people's faces so hard(hypocritical I admit, as I have been rubbing my posts into your face)

Edit: You have to admit that our arguing is at least more classy than what's above this post

Do you ever think things through? It's a rhetorical question by the way.

The reason significantly more people complain about C4 than they do with snipers is because tanks cost nanites, creating a time restriction. Infantry on the other hand can be spawned freely at any time the player would like. If you actually read my posts, I mention this.

For your information, the general consensus is that C4 is more of a problem than AT mines; that's why there are so many forum posts about it. As I stated before once again

Please use dictionary.com if you don't know what active and passive mean.

I'm not a game developer. I just support any sort of C4 nerf that doesn't have enough damage to kill a MBT or the removal of C4 from light assaults.

You have roughly the idea of combined arms with regards to on arm needing another arm in order to cover its weaknesses. The reason why Planetside 2 is not a combined arms game is simply because MBT's and ESF's are unnecessary. Infantry has enough firepower to counter all three arms, enemy infantry, tanks, and air force, as well as, complete the objective. Yes, tank objectives will help shift more power towards tanks, but still, at its core concept, that will be all a tank can do, be an objective specialist. Infantry rules the battlefield in terms of combat, C4 is definitely not improving the situation for combined arms.

There is a way to fix this. Nerf C4, anti-tank mines, and possibly other infantry anti-tank weapons, and revamp tanks so that it is easier to kill other tanks. The main counter to tanks should be other tanks and air power. There really shouldn't be any problem with this, especially when players aren't forced to stay infantry; all players are allowed to pull tanks or aircraft.

If you don't know already, Sunderer's used as spawn points don't count as part of the tank force, it counts as part of infantry, which can be known as mechanized infantry.

How is that not the case in the current game? Infantry AV is only effective in MASSIVE numbers. And C-4 only counters the greedy and/or stupid.

done with this thread, theyll never change their opinion, and theyll never improve at their game. its fine.
ill see you soon , in my GLOWING armor and silver camo, but you wont see me *cause youre bad*
and whether i use c4 or mines wont matter

cause if you sit still or let me get above you

youre gonna die

have fun

Bleh, I'd be content with a coaxial MG. That alone should eradicate all C4 fairying against situation-aware tanks.

On the other hand, tank technology has obviously regressed back to inter-war or worse levels.

Slow, unable to climb over minor obstacles, lack of effective anti-infantry defenses on most (because there's no coaxial MG and AV tanks need to run AV-AV to maintain competitive DPS), lack of effective turret stabilization (horizontal stabilization is Korean War tech), lack of automated FCS, painfully slow projectiles that suggest pre-Victorian artillery tech (Vanguard: 275 m/s, QF 6pdr Hotchkiss (used on the Mk I tank): 554 m/s), and as a result engagement ranges that is best described as melee range for modern tanks.

LOL. WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME ABOUT THIS THREAD?

Johngalt accused FireDude448 and I of being a legion of C4 fairys when he made this thread, lmao. I'm actually in the process of turning those clips (among a LOT of others) into a drifting video

Here's a sample; and I'll work on finishing the next video now that I've seen this thread (It's going to be entirely armor kills, no infantry)

This guy and a couple others seriously just fly around in a valk at flight ceiling, jump out, and C4 people. Even with thermals equipped there is very little you can do to combat this.

Whatever, if this is the way the game is supposed to work, it's a ****** game. Everyone keeps talking about C4 as if it's some skillful sneak up on an enemy on the ground operation, when generally, it is just float down from the sky and instagib tanks.

I mean, I killed this guy a bunch, but I had to be 100% focused on the sky with thermals equipped, and there is not a whole lot you can do with more than one dedicated bailassault drifter.

The epitome of ********.

Hey , seriously though, you stopped us for 20 mins with that A2A reaver. That's the game, man. I actually gave up for a bit cause my team couldn't take you out! YOU DONE DID GOOD!

I was a little salty. Haha

I also couldn't believe that NO NC would engage your valk. I was pointing it out, but my teammates are apparently blind. I had to ditch the tank and do it myself.

Damn, such a pro at claiming LA is cheese, yet doesn't have a problem with static AT mines that have spotting problems and can move through terrain and can easily be hidden in terrain features and the limited Q-spot system denies a good chance of spotting those in time.
You can keep making up weird technicalities and self-serving arguments, but the fact remains that all the tools to avoid C4 fairies are already there, and that AT mines are cheesier to use.

I don't drive on the obvious places, there are still mines in inobvious places.
And besides that, just because you are lucky enough to accidentally find them time and again doesn't mean that it's not a problem.
The stats don't lie, C4 has a VKPU of around 1,4 and AT mines of 1,7. This comes in part because C4 is used against infantry as well, but that's a separate problem. The VKPH is unfortunately not useful since tank mines and C4 have too much inflation by getting grabbed only at the last moment, tank mines especially are switched to only at the destination and then instantly switched back after placement.

There's a huge difference. Yes perception is everything, but failure to act is one as well. A Liberator that attacks you simply isn't preventable. They have massive speed and can come from any direction at any time, they also have so much health that it's unlikely anyone can kill them before they kill something, in fact it's unlikely to kill a Liberator at all during a run. In fact, a Liberator is more likely to ram a Galaxy or Liberator than get killed by ground weapons!
However an LA is completely different. He's much more limited in the approaches he has, can be easily killed, avoided or have his weapons neutralized with movement. The only perception of rampant BS is the fact that tankers refuse to act on it and try to nerf it to kingdom come.
As for mines, you never drove over mines while fighting an enemy tank? You know? When you are too busy to look for mines? You somehow magically overcome the Q-spot problems mines have? You can spot mines that are clipped into the ground in time? You have infinite Q-spots available to spot those mines in the grass/behind the tiniest inclines that makes them invisible to the naked eye?

I'm interested in this fantasy, could you elaborate?

I've heard this myth before that ground locks are a problem, that myth also pervades the air but at least there it deals 1/3rd of your health. Ground locks are rarely there, those that I do see I can avoid almost always, by the time they can fire again I've closed the distance from "pixel" to "in your face".
As for Lancers, those are a very specific weapon along with Ravens, but that's lets see... 2 weapons, yes 2 weapons that have a problem with too high accuracy and DPS combined. As I said before they are a problem on high elevations... But there are no weapons to go toe-to-toe with vehicles while on the ground. That's why we need more of it so the walls around bases can go away and infantry won't be bottled up simply because there's some tanks shooting them.
So quit with your own BS, don't blame two weapons (and locks, that's a laugh) for being "too much AV" even though such AV nests only work in specific area's and often aren't even used in the game in large enough quantities!

The limitations on camera angles aren't that big when compared to the usual C4 fairy attack heights. I already did that math once, funnily enough every tanker ignored that post for some reason...

Wait, A2G now means that infantry AV is balanced?
Also, what social contract, which plentiful ranged options? And what the hell do these ranged options have to do with the CQC AV options we have available?

Aaahw... You need a crutch! You can't do it yourself despite getting several tricks that each work separately against LA so you want a crutch to defend yourself!
Not going to happen! If your allies spot and shoot an enemy it should be enough of a cue for you to start checking around. Teamwork with AI options should be encouraged more, checking the perimeter together should be encouraged, and tunnelvision tankers should be heavily discouraged. You want eazymode tanking? Well you can have it... But you have to take the threat of C4 fairies with it if you go eazymode! Or you can go medium mode and become practically immune to C4 fairies from the get-go... Your choice.

Server smashes are different from the rest of the game. Also, nerfing C4 against vehicles won't mean anything for the server smashes. Don't think that just because vehicles are bad at some things they suddenly have to be immune to other things. Vehicles are used in the normal game, and vehicles are powerful there for all intents and purposes. Yes, tanks can benefit from getting more goals and influence in base capture, but that is a separate problem from C4 fairying, which is totally a problem with the tankers mindset as it's absolutely preventable to get C4red in most cases.

perhaps Heavy Tanks need a buff like how Sundies got one. 2xC4 Burning not explodes?? but lightnings can get stuffed

A rhetorical question is a question you already know the answer to, only you have the wrong answer.

No the reason significantly more people complain about C4 is because with snipers they actually learn not to walk right in the open. Also I corrected Chingles with this as well so I don't know why I have to repeat it: Death is also time consuming and restricting, as it forces you to respawn and travel to a battle location. Chingles said "but if your resources run out you can't pull a vehicle for X time", completely ignoring the fact that that same tank could have easily killed enough infantry to cause more time at the death screen+traveling back to a battle location than it takes for the tank to gain nanites.

I know that the general consensus is that AT mines are less of a problem, I've pointed it out myself and then added "the general consensus is wrong", which it is!
So why are you pointing out the exact same that I do with the whole general consensus thing?

Please stick your head out of your butthole and pay attention. I basically said the same thing! AT mines are placed in relative safety (because they are passive, duh) and are cheesier than C4 in that way, which requires more effort and the tanker can directly defend himself in multiple ways, from learning to move more often to learning how to spot them to learning to react to friendlies spotting them. Mines can only be spotted with Q-spot or with the naked eye, both of which can be circumvented and/or are buggy because of Q-spot failing to spot them in many cases and foliage, ridges and even clipping into the ground can make them invisible.

And that's why I love that you aren't a developer, you would rather screw balance over for your own gain than have a fun and engaging game. Oh wait, you do want a fun and engaging game but you just don't know what you want to get it! It's like every cheater everywhere: To gain "more" fun out of their game they make it ultra-easy mode for themselves, then get bored with it and go away, except when the griefing is their new fun which ruins it for everyone else anyway.
A challenging game is fun, this includes the tank game.

And if your above complaint is to be believed the only change that's necessary is... Tanks and aircraft can capture bases as well!
Also, infantry does not have enough firepower, otherwise the walls were never necessary around the bases in the first place.

"because tanks and aircraft can't capture bases like infantry my fix is that we nerf infantry capability to attack vehicles and it's balanced!"
Or, or, you can fix the damn problem and allow tanks and aircraft to capture bases and/or influence the capture better. You are saying "there's a problem with capturing so let's unbalance the game so that tanks are more useful", what the actual ****? That's like saying "well because our trains can't reach the metropolitan area, we'll be reducing the speed of vehicles everywhere to balance it out instead of making new tracks and stations and solving the actual problem"

And technicalities again!

funny how you wrote all of than directly under youtube clips of a drifter LA wrecking **** left and right.

You still have eyes, you still can look where you drive, you still can go around suspicious holes. In fact i do that. AT mines are not ******** claymore instagibbing you through the walls.
It's not a problem. If you claim it is, why should i believe that you know what you are talking about when it comes to c4 dropping out the sky?

Really? In lib threads I was told to git gud, how I can hear it hundreds of meters away and that I can just drive off its nutbusting path and what not. This forumside thing is so confusing.

It's also smaller, less likely to draw mass attention and doesn't produce any sound (libs were near silent in the past) and can be dropped off valkyries or biolab platforms ad infinitum which makes the approach risk fall through the floor.

just watch the Andvari video right above, where nothing in the 300m radius is safe and gets carpet bombed with c4.

Bugs are one thing, but legit rendering AT mines are not a problem. Disable foilage, git gud, ???, profit!

Ground plane is tankers bread and butter. If I can't be bothered to control it, I have no business driving a tank, it's that simple. And yes, I do avoid suspicious holes and if I must to pass through a spot that is not easy to inspect at a glance I try positioning myself until I can confirm it's clear. Hossin is kinda BS, but I Q-spam all the time when approaching water.
No **** that if I charge recklessly after a seemingly easy target I might get surprised, baiting is one of the oldest tricks in the book.
The only relatively consistent scenario of me getting wrecked by AT mines is putting faith in fellow NC who don't clear mines even if they literally sit on them. That is a rookie mistake I can't eradicate, because there are no players more clueless than the NC pubs.

No you don't, unless you are shamelessly farming some BR3 dude lost in the middle of nowhere. Charging 1 guy usually means exposing yourself to many more threats from multiple directions (which sucks because of the weak spots) and is a fasttrack to the spawn screen seasoned with the 450n loss.

Funny how you conveniently forgot about faction agnostic AV manas, that in the past were a blight of the game and even today boast 450m range. That VS MAX lazor thingie is not **** either.

Andvari clip again. LAs don't have to scrape the ground with their feet you know. I'd say the most vicious attacks are about positioning at significant altitude and then freefalling on target, not to mention that the bricks can be dropped accurately from a healthy height. If the C4 had to be planted at touching distance I bet the C4+LA complaints would be less frequent.
If you notice the bricks falling on your hood it's already too late.

Given your AT mines whine, tell me you don't use EOD, the biggest crutch of all, augmenting your blindness and we'll talk about crutches.

Scary infiltrators emit unique sounds from hundreds of meters away, scary liberators emit sounds from hundreds of meters away, LA potentially instagibbing a mountain of resources? Nothing. Feel free to justify the difference, but don't let the double standard hit you in the head.

Doesn't matter. It was argument supporting the notion that the combined arms in PS2 is horsesh!t and that the ground mech is weak and cost ineffective in the grand scheme of things, as proven by what happens when the game gets minmaxed to the extreme.

You got problems with HAs? I got blown out of the air by AP tank shells two times in 7 minutes!
*I might have flown rather low (4m) and killed/ assisted with 4 Vanguards and 3 Lightnings in the middle of a tank zerg*

Seriously though, the concern with the LA is that its simply an instant kill and the guy could come from almost anywhere.
Its the same reason why the Dalton is so annoying for ESFs - the guy has only to succeed ONCE and you're dead.
The fact that everybody and his dog has some kind of G2A weapon within arms reach is certainly annoying, but usually you don't simply blow up and got the time to run away and survive.
If the guys on the ground even bother using them that is. Most seem to be busy circlejerking about how OP aircraft is instead of shooting back - although that seems to get better.

You calling what I said elitist mindbending horse****, even though that video proves everything I said. The only reason that LA could kill any of those tanks is because those tanks do not try anything to defend themselves at any point in that video.

This is such a magnificently simple problem with magnificently easy tactics to prevent said problem, in fact said tactics will improve your normal tanking gameplay while you execute your anti-LA searches. So why on earth would anyone not try them? They work. The only thing your video has proven is exactly where these tankers get the idea from and why it shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

Claymores don't instagib you through walls.
I do have eyes, but as I said AT mines have a large amount of problems connected to them, also the fact that AT mines get a third more tank kills per unique than C4 should be an indication as to how many more people accidentally run into AT mines compared to the C4, rendering your whole "but you can avoid them if you look" mute. Not to mention the problems that the AT mines are plagued with causing them to be unspottable, clipped or simply hidden, and not "just avoid suspicious holes" since you might not have noticed but everything is a suspicious hole and any top of a rise can just as easily hide mines etc.

Why shouldn't you believe me in the first place? Anyone with half a brain looking at that video for instance should be able to pick out all the possible counters they could have used. For one those tanks are camping infantry with large numbers, they still have AV loadouts even after returning to the area with a new tank, shouldn't that be an indication as to how much more dangerous tanks are? Or an indication as to how tankers prefer to stick with one loadout even though their primary target and primary source of damage is infantry at that point? Then there's just moving around instead of dumbly clubbing a piece of wall without any real progress, actually looking for the C4 threat, positioning yourself so you can easily take the C4 fairy out, actually reacting to friendlies shooting and spotting the C4 fairy etc. Each and every single one of these options would have saved not just the tank that did it, but almost every tank there! Sure that C4 fairy would have gotten lucky at some point and killed one tank during the entire day/night cycle he fights there, but the entire Zerg wouldn't have been taken apart!

If you fail to see that, how easily it would have been for the tankers to counter him, then I suggest you look at it again, try it in game yourself as a tanker, get some situational awareness and learn!

Just one more thing: Skyguards.
Skyguards would almost be the most powerful anti-C4 fairy weapon in the game with the exception of it's large COF making it tough to actually kill them quickly. Yet Skyguards are no more difficult than other tanks to C4, because even these weapons with the best elevation range both above and below and a role that has them search the sky for enemy flying things fail at basic situational awareness. They look in one part of the sky, they do have a better visional arc where they keep watch but it's almost always limited to one part of the sky with once in a blue moon a quick look around them. This makes them slightly more aware than other tanks, but still easy peasy targets for any C4 fairy because they don't move, they don't look around them enough, they don't position themselves to make it harder to approach etc.
And that's why I believe that even if you gave tanks in general a 360 degree elevation MG that instakills any C4 fairy, tanks would still be C4red almost as much as they are now because it's a problem with the tank drivers and not the C4. That's not elitist, that's just a fact.

They lie, Libs are powerful, with some tricks it's possible to change sound volumes and make Lib sounds audible (and probably you need to purchase expensive surround headphones to better gauge the direction) but for normal players who play the game rather than the game's configurations this is not a real option.

Dropping off Valkyries would work, using biolab platforms has great chance of success but it's absolutely not a sure-fire way for people who pay attention. I barely ever got C4red near biolabs even when there was a C4 fairy trying to get me. Funny thing, the moment I started doing things like "move around" and "look in his direction while anticipating him" he would instantly divert course to greener pastures where the chance of failing his C4 attack or simply dieing weren't as high. The big advantage of someone using the pads is that their attack direction is set.

The Valkyrie C4 fairies is a different problem altogether, but that happens so rarely I don't think it needs discussing... Yet. You could simply chalk it up to "teamwork beats lone-wolfing" and request AA support... Or have one or two people with Walkers or Kobalts in your team, that should work a charm.

Yeah, also watch how many of those targets are doing nothing but sit there and be pretty. Seems to be the running gag with tankers right? Sit there, lob shells eazy mode, surprise! You got C4red. "what? But that's unfair! I could have done things like move to make it hard for this guy but I refuse! I should be able to sit there and be pretty without fearing C4 attacks whatsoever!"

"disable foliage", any graphical advantages that one player can get over another shouldn't be there in the game in the first place. Foliage should either be there for everyone or no one, and getting advantages because of it shouldn't be possible.
That aside, tanks often aren't in the foliage to begin with, "legit and rendering" AT mines aren't really a problem I agree (excepting some places such as vehicle pads, where they should just allow players to stop the AI from moving you off the pad so you can choose yourself how and where you drive off it), but it's far cheesier than doing C4 attacks as it carries less risks and higher success ratio's.

AT mines are less of a problem than A2G attacks or accidental flanks by enemies, which is why "glancing as I try positioning myself until I can confirm it's clear" is a sure fire way to get spotted and killed... Including by C4 fairies. Get the message already?
I take AT mines as part of the game as long as they are not in front of tank pads, not clipped into the ground or unspottable. Most of the time I can tell afterwards what I did wrong, but if I can't, if I know I spotted that location or if the area was completely clear on an open road, I know the mines were doing their wacky things.

You must be attacking infantry Zergs or something, as my experience and that of most of my old clan is completely different. Besides, Lock-ons are the least of your worries if you do get attacked from multiple directions, it's dumbfires with the higher DPS and less trouble with pop-up tanks that you need to watchout for.
Also, if I look at the things you say it sounds as if you drive right out in the open away from cover all the time or something. It's actually surprising that you survive a tank battle long enough to get even shot at by infantry.

AV mana turrets with large range and easy destruction? Those things? Those things that rarely are used in large masses anymore because of the nerfs?

Aand... Because there's a few biolabs in the game suddenly no tank is safe no matter what? Also, moving is a counter against any C4 fairy, no matter if it's a bailassault, Valkyrie dropped player, or a slingshot maneuver from anywhere. Moving is also a key element in tank combat and will almost always give you an advantage over non-moving tank players, it's more surprising that players actually use tanks as moveable turrets rather than tanks.
Aside from that, having allies help defend you is a great way to survive. Get a Kobalt or AA top gun and have someone check the skies for you, or do it yourself once in a while. Especially if you notice a C4 fairy in the area using pads you should instantly react to it. Hell, if necessary I often get out to take a peek above me and possibly shoot a helpless C4 fairy out of the sky.

my "whine"? Are you completely off your rockers? I've only advocated why AT mines are worse than C4, I never said AT mines are the spawn of all evil. I have used it to show how stupid it is for people to complain about C4 fairies even though AT mines are more dangerous and cheesy.

I already have justified it, through balance, time cost, resource cost even upon success, possible counters... What more do you need? You can say "but nooooo I don't believe you!" to everything but what's the point? These tricks we give you are simple and will actually improve your tanking game while you are at it. Why don't you try it? Why don't you do it? I would love to see the tanking game become more versatile and employ higher tactics, "higher" being "move at all while in combat" (discounting pop-up tanks that move just a few meters and back again repeatedly).

"doesn't matter"? It supports you but when I counter it, it suddenly doesn't matter? So basically you are saying "it only is valid as long as it serves me"? Good job!

As much as I said it, this isn't a discussion between pro-C4 players and tank drivers. This is a farce where the tank drivers keep shouting "but I got killed and it's a disproportionate amount of resources I lose compared to them" while their only "proof" consists out of a video that completely and utterly proves that everything the pro-C4 players have said all along: This is a problem with the tank drivers, not the C4.

CONGRATULATIONS

youve figured out the SECRET

instead of crying for nerfs here, you get in game, AND GO F THE ENEMY UP

c4s fairies from the sky??

YOU did the RIGHT thing, you went after their platform.

now i understand the frustration that you had to so it yourself and that none of your team could be bothered even though you were spotting and Y chating im sure, ive been there. sometimes you just gotta Be the Man and getrdone yourself.

you have proven that there Are in fact effective counters to c4 fairies. hell dude himself said you about shut them down..

do more of that and less crying here. everyone wins