[Suggestion] Phasing out 0.75 ADS overtime.

That's funny I did (see previous page)

GodSaw
Betelgeuse
Anchor
Butcher
Bull

Heres the top five (without outliers like the SVA-GG with only 154 users and without NS weapons), as we can see the VS LMGs dominate the top five with all of 1 weapon (and its the auraxium version of the Orion).

Top 5 Carbines (without the NS)

Eclipse 26% 779 users
Fortuna 25.6% 698 users
Gauss Compact- S 24.8% 685
Solstice Burst 24.8% 761
Trac-Shot 24.4% 741

Nope still not seeing the VS being absolutely accurate here

Lets try the Assault Rifles (same deal as above top 5 non NS)

Gauss Rifle Burst 25.3% 499 users
Darkstar 25.2% 327 users
Gauss Prime 25.2% 382 users
Equinox Burst 25% 439 users
CME 24.4% 1262 users

Ok so the VS has 3 weapons in the top 5 here, shame the 1 and 3 spot are NC isn't it.


So I guess the VS MUST have more accurate pistols then

Mag Scatter 53% 400 users
Executive 33.3% 18 users (too small a sample size tbh)
The Immortal 32% 14 users (see above)
Beamer VS3-FB 31.7% 119 users
NC4-FB Magshot 31.7% 135 users
Cerberus 30.6% 654 users

Similar to the Assault rifle results (and funny that the NC Mag Scatter has a 53% accuracy then again you have to be point blank to use a shotgun)., next pistol with more than 100 users would be the repeater..

So VS hand guns are not more accurate then the NC and TR counter parts

Ok so lets look at tank weapons

Supernova FPC 49.1% 4652
Supernova VPC 48.7% 2476
Supernova PC 45.5% 7253
Titan AP 44.7% 5872
Titan HE 43% 1739

Oh noes the Mag is much more accurate it needs nerfing... NERF IT.... (I jest we all ready new that the Mag aim was good due to not being thrown off by random bumps when driving).

Lets look at the Harasser top guns for a more fun (and balanced look) look

TR Halberd 54.6% 1660
VS Halberd 53.9% 1785
Enforcer 53.0% 1227
Saron HRB-H 51.3% 1410
NC Halberd 52.8% 2001

Hmm NS wins followed by NC
Vulcan H 42.8% 3216

ESF
VS Lol Pods 50.6% 5583
NC Lol Pods 47.6% 5707
TR Lol Pods 46.9% 6845

More serious the ESF nose guns

TR M18 Needler 31.3% 2608
VS Saron Laser Cannon 30.7% 2675
NC M20 Mustang 29.9% 2174
TR M18 Rotary 29.7% 2913
NC Vortex Rotary 29.2% 2851
VS Hailstorm Turbo Laser 29.2% 2790

Hmm clearly dominated by VS in 2nd place, shame that TR are in first place...

So the only weapon platform that the VS have accuracy in is the Mag due to its unique mechanic, more then made up for by being not the biggest tank related cause of death (that goes to the Titan AP followed by Prowler, this is just for tanks that die, otherwise its Prowler).

Maybe accuracy IS NOT A VS TRAIT after all.

So what trait does the VS have on their guns other then something useless like no bullet drop, which seeing as apart from the vehicle guns none are that affected by bullet drop, I mean the ranges where combat would have to take place where you actually notice it would be at 200m plus (this only affects users of Scout Rifles, Semi Auto Sniper Rifles and Lancer / AV Max users and the Saron).

Which would you rather have
40 round clip size
200 damage tier
No bullet drop that you won't notice at the combat ranges this game is played at.

Maybe if the VS had a meaning full trait on their guns we wouldn't ***** so much about the 0.75 ADS being removed.

How about removing bullet drop on all of the Pistols, LMG's, Carbines, Assault Rifles and then 200 damage tier and 40 round clip sizes and then see how everyone likes the nice and even playing field.

TR will find that the aiming 1 pixel higher is not needed but will note the reduced clip size
NC will also notice that the aiming of 1 pixel is not needed but will notice that lack of damage their guns do.
VS will just notice that the other two teams lives got harder.

Did you specifically elude the examples i was making and included NS in the mix? Lol

You left out clear comparisons like default weapons and Max AI and dismissing clear % wins by VS for a reason im sure. Oh because they were vs as number 1 in accuracy, hsr, and k/d of course. Esf ppa has no contest the best and most used. The top guns like saron which is meh on a harassor on the move but how is it on a mag? Number 1? Thought so. BG is top in accuracy bar none in directive lmgs. Eclipse, Darkstar, and BG are top in accuracy and hsr accuracy. And you included pistols why? At what point would NS and sub 20 users matter? VS leads in nearly every starter default weapon in hsr and accuracy. Why dismiss it?

This is classic grasping against the most used guns by vets and new players with cross faction guns like ns pistols and halberds. Stick with empire specific like i was saying and not leave out the exavt weapons I was talking about yeah?

No I merely listed the TOP weapons for accuracy in each class leaving out the NS weapons otherwise the LMG's, Carbines and Assault Rifles would have NS15 near or at the top.

I also listed the ESF weapons and Tank weapons (other than the secondaries, which differ too much as how do you compare Canister against PPA, it would be like comparing the Lashers accuracy against the Jackhammers). Getting them is a pain as they are all in vehicle weapons which is a pain to look through...

Did you even read what I posted? As in "Heres the top five (without outliers like the SVA-GG with only 154 users and without NS weapons), as we can see the VS LMGs dominate the top five with all of 1 weapon (and its the auraxium version of the Orion)."

Ok heres the default LMG accuracy

Orion19% 20.4% head shots plus or minus 4.5% 5.5% (for head shots)
T9 Carv 17.3% 19.1% head shots plus or minus 4.5% (5% for head shots)
Gauss Saw 17.9% 20% head shots plus or minus 4.8% (same for head shots)

As we can see the Orion is massively more accurate by a whole 1.1%, taking into account the head shot accuracy the level goes down to 0.4% without looking at the plus or minus % thin as that could make the Gauss the most accuarate ofr the least depending on what stat you look at.

Next time you complain please post the stats (and where you are getting them from, rather then thin air).

Mine are from dasanfall and are representative of the games life time, where are yours from and where are they?

I mean in the top 10 LMGs for accuracy 5 are NS, that might be why I didn't bother....

Lets have a look at MAX AI left weapons shall we the TOP 5 again

Scattercannon 38.1%
Grinder 37.9%
Mattock 36.7%
Hacksaw 32.7%
Blueshift 18.8%

So we can clearly see once again how the VS is much more accurate then the NC by a huge -19.2%

What we are comparing here is like pump action vs Carbine accuracy hence why I left them out, in fact for max ai we should be really only looking at TR and VS as their weapons are of the same type (carbine style).

Max AI ignoring NC

Blueshifts 18.8%
Nebula 18.2%
Onslaught 16.7%
Cosmos 16.3%
Mercy 16.1%

Well yes they are more accurate, but then the fire rate of the TR is higher to compensate.

Vehicle accuracy stats

TR Halberd 37.8%
VS Halberd 46.1%
NC Halberd 41.3%

Why pick the Halberd well it has the same CoF, this just shows that because the mag floats its a better gun platform then the others, but then the Mag pays for it by having the lowest DPS of all the tanks and the least useful combat ability, largest profile (its the biggest tank) its also has the slowest top peed, but as it floats it can maintain the average highest speed.

Now for the other tank weapons

Vulcan 24.5%
Saron 38.1%
Enforcer 37.3%

We should really ignore the Vulcan as its like comparing a sniper rifle to either an assault rifle or carbine, they are completely different least accurate sniper rifle 29.6% whilst the most accurate Carbine NS11 CP 27.5%.

So the Saron is only 1% more accurate despite the better gun platform, but then it has had its CoF massively nerfed since GU2

Now using the same platform ie the harasser

Enforcer 53%
Saron 51.3%
Vulcan 42.8%

Nope still not seeing the VS vehicles being more accurate, just the Magrider due to its unique status as hovering, but then the top cause of tank deaths isn't the Magriders FPC or the Saron, that honor goes to the Vanguards 150mm AP.

Amusing side VS C4 is higher then the Magriders AP as a cause of tank deaths.

Accuracy is not a VS trait, it might of been in alpha, but several years latter and it most definitely isn't. Maybe when the 0.75 ADS is removed (from the LMG's) and the VS LMG's get adjusted as it looks like they will, but not until then.

Which have horrid ttks. At what point does actual stats that are better overall become an eh its not that accurate. If it is top it means it's generally the most accurate. Including cross faction stuff is a lame dodge. And what does me posting a giant list of stats that anyone can simply lookup have to do with me being right or wrong. Would you like a link to oracles stats? The guns I mentioned are clearcut winners in accuracy, hsr, and kd. Even with the 1 to 2% of players that can perform amazingly with those weapons, the fact that you are talking about 1% increase among thousands and thousands of users is huge. Which is why default weapons vs wins in accuracy hsr and kd in most cases. And most directives are the same like i made in the original post.

Regardless of hijacking this thread with a vs accuracy thing. The ads 0.75 on the most accurate default weapon lmg is ridiculous as it equally, along with the BG, have been nearly drawback-less for far too long. As 0.75 is a survival mechanic and further boosting a HAs kill potential without sacrificing range or spread is crazy to ignore. And at no point should the orion be brought in with more accuracy than any other lmg just so it's "viable". As the t9 carv and butcher have been bottom or very near bottom of the barrel in accuracy of but people still use them. If you want accurate lmgs with the best ttk Im sorry those 2 things just cant mix at mid range.

Orion isn't the "most" accurate LMG

I was merely pointing out that accuracy is not a VS trait despite several people saying that it is for weapons, vehicles etc

As to weapons that are accurate, high performing with low TTK's we must look at the Anchor as its in the top 5 accurate guns...

Just saying... To be honest the Anchor is fine as it stands.

The most accurate default weapon by a mile. yes it is. And the fact it's skewed by BR 1's it's still top tier for overall LMGs. Look at how far the t9 carv and Gause Saw is pulled down by BR 1's and overall new players. It still contends and beats almost all with accuracy hsr and easily k/d outside of directives. And the clearcut winner for Directives is the BG

And I agree with you on the Anchor. But it's rarely used outside of its intended role on NC and boosting accuracy stats as most cqc dominate weapons do. As guns like the GD22 and EM6 are better for mid range accuracy. The Orion is amazing at cqc like the Anchor but pushes the engagements outside of the Anchors 3 shot hsr kill range to still have effective to better ttk as headshots become less common with distance on NC weapons bloom. You would have to be a burst fire champ to headshot every time and equal the Orions ttk outside of it's bullet damage drop off. But burst in combination of low rpm will boost a higher mid range capable rpm weapon past it. This is why the AR's like the Cycler and Torq are able to perform great in mid range as guns like the Reaper or Corvus. Added 0.75 to mid range engagement potential is waaaaay more effective than any high damage weapon as headshot pixels on a 1x scope become less common. But 750 143 will be faster body to headshot ttk than a 600 167. It's skewed and people want to argue it. The MSW-r is prime example. Better recoil, further max dmg range, less k/d and similar accuracy than even the starter Orion.

0.75 is a slippery slope. It will boost survival and bring mediocre guns to the top of any list if it has even decent mid range capability.

The most accurate LMG is the SVA and not Orion (you probably didn't play with both) and it's not by a mile becouse if we compared the SVA with carv-s and Orion with MSW,you will find that the first shot multiplier of the SVA is way more annoying than carv-s and the horizontal tolerance of the MSW is less than the Orion's (even after the changes)

There are actually lots of LMGs that are more accurate than or as accurate as Orion.away from the fact that most of them share the same ADS CoF,they trade ttk with accuracy,like bull,Polaris,rhino,EM1

Overall,firerate is directly propotional to recoil,as you you fire faster,the less time your weapon becomes less accurate and that's why MSW and Orion are meant for short to medium and never try to convince me that you get killed by Orion or BG from more than 30 metres! (Unless you got teamed )

The SVA isn't a starter weapon though. You are omitting the fact that BR 1's with subpar to terrible accuracy wouldn't bring it down to T9 Carv and Gause Saw levels. The simple fact is that it's powerful enough that even the "more accurate" SVA barely has a fraction of the usage of the Orion even though they both have 0.75 ads and the orion still contends in stats.

That's my reply Saokeh,I just forgot to quote your post

At this case,I see it's totally unfair to make the sharpest LMGs as the starter ones,all the people who refuse the removal of .75 ads agree on that,we can simply replace the Orion with the LSW and the saw with GD-22,I think the carv suits well as it is and I bet that will make Orion less used

Which is true, but you are not taking into account how much the 0.75 ads on the Orion effects the stat overall. I mean look at the BG. It's a better representation of how the Orion would be with much less BR 1's using it. And it is the best lmg in the game. Not because it has a better damage model or rpm than any other gun. As I make the point with the MSW-r. But because of it's ADS. The k/d can be attributed to the heat mechanic very slightly only mainly do to 0.75. 1v1 engagements 0.75 coupled with mid range capability is like giving the Cyclone a 167 143 damage model VS would go nuts. .

no proof. just pure conjecture. absolute BS.

So the more capable MSW-R the literal most used cqc weapon on the TR that is better suited for mid and close range fights, better recoil, with SPA has similar stats to the BG? No. Or should we go to directives and compare the Butcher to the BG since they share the same damage model and rpm with similar to slightly worse recoil patterns? You'd think the Butcher would be a lot closer in stats to the BG if ADS wasn't a factor since most players with the Butcher die well before the ammo count hits 0. Point is more new players use the Orion than any other LMG in comparison to the later lmgs but still easily contends with them in stats, why? Hate to tell you, 0.75 ADS with mid range capability is the reason, no circumstantial proof needed.

The BG has a heat mechanic which is why it's over performing since you can endlessly farm bads with it on live. This is literally what every single top player has said about why the BG is so good. They've also said that if they're going up against a very skilled opponent they will absolutely take the Orion instead because unlike the BG the Orion can actually get better accuracy from a forward grip, and accuracy > everything else.

Also, I dare you to find a single post where I say that the Butcher is fine and doesn't need a buff.

Here, let me help you with that.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/the-butcher.216988/

I want the BG brought down a bit and the Butcher brought up because it sucks when people have crappy equipment, which is the entire reason why the 0.75 nerf is a bad idea since it will totally gut the effectiveness of VS HA's in it's current state, especially when outside of the BG and Butcher I would say that LMG balance is the most balanced weapons class in the game.

Don't believe me? Feel free to compare the MSW-R and Anchor with the Orion me on which one is last both in KPU and KPH at max BR rank.

The PTS LMG's changes are going to do alot of things to the LMG usage. Keep that in mind.



Also......



Can you do good without 0.75 ADS? Y or N