[Actually serious] Maxes should be deleted from Planetside 2

I'd argue that removal of AV grenade bounce that went down in that same patch (seriously, try to toss it with a richochet through a doorway, the thing will fall like a brick at around the spot it hits the wall) did, in fact, make things harder as far as anti-MAX use goes. And nerfs to trajectory and rocket hipfire do indeed result in a multitude of rockets going through MAXes' armpits with no damage dealt.

'Wait,' one might say, 'what hipfire you are talking about? We don't need that ****, good riddance to it.' Well, it might just be only my personal experience, but NC MAX + latency = I am dead before I can aim down sights with my rocket launcher if I try that trick where they can see me. And, considering the layout of the vast majority of the cappoint buldings in the game, there is no covert approach to be had if I want to try to smoke them out and not lose the base.

So, in my opinion, things did get worse for ant-MAX use as well, quite noticeably so. You might not run into it, but that's what I see in my own play sessions, from both myself and other less-than-accurate rocketeers like me. It could argued just where all those skill floors and ceiling should be in this case, especially considering the availability of rockets, but that would be off topic, I'm afraid.

XXX

But, regardless of all the above, why MAXes? If the problem is buying tickets to easier killstreaks with a bit of nanites, then why specifically MAXes are the problem big enough to require complete removal and not anything else? If we go by criteria listed in the OP, basically everything can fall under it.

So, why MAXes?

MAX units are fine. Annoying but fine.

My eyes glazed over on some of the walls of text, so this cold have been mentioned.

When one is a MAX there is a big special, big very noticeable big double big triangle over ones head. It seems to be a sign to every player in the vicinity and his girlfriend, er, well no, there is no girlfriend, to target and kill the Max. Because of the big... well you get the idea.

Suddenly I'm being hit from all directions, even seemingly from 600-700 meters away (with no CoF lately) and all this talk of incredible survivability seems more like a dream trait. Maxes are an integral part of this game. Learn to deal with them instead of the "Let's turn this game into Virtual Tag" conquest.

This all reminds me of how some people move to a new country from some craphole of the world for a better life. Then the very first thing they do is scream and holler because they want everyone in the 'new country' to behave as people did in the craphole they just left. Instead of adapting, accepting and changing to live in the new country, they want it just like the old country.

I say: Adapt or Die.

That is literally the worst idea in this thread of bad ideas.

And no, he's clearly repeated many times he wants to push for REMOVAL of MAXes.

And I disagree that it'd be good for the game anyways.

What would be good is making them less available. And no, definitely NOT making them Pay2Win suits.
(I understand you were joking, or hope so anyways, but I don't want anyone jumping on that bandwagon)

Long thread. Just caught the ends, hopefully not retreading anything.

I like how you say this and go on to basically talk about how they're OP handicap crutches, but then don't realize that you've got your answer. How do you balance the MAX? You make it a handicap device.

Imagine a mechanic where pulling MAXes is limited in each territory. The more outnumbered your faction is, the greater your capacity to pull a MAX. One side gets numbers, the other side gets more high-value units. This means that the only time you're going to see lots of enemy MAXes is if your faction is zerging the base, but at that point I don't think you can really complain about unfair encounters.

I don't know what the rational behind the limit would be. But off the top of my head, here's one potential model:

-Each side gets one MAX slot for every X population (20 or so?) in a hex. While more MAXes can be carried in, you cannot equip a MAX loadout if your faction has more MAXes than slots. Min Y slots (1?). Unlimited slots in Warp Gates.
-Pulling a MAX suit additionally puts the used slot on cooldown for X minutes. If you die quickly as a MAX your faction cannot simply replace it. These units need to be supported by your faction.
-Gain another MAX slot for every X (10?) population the enemy has over you. Possibly reduce cooldown times.
-Potentially add a base benefit that gives additional MAX slots or decreases the cooldown so something other than the Tech Plant matters.

For example, in a 50v50 there would be 2 MAXes on each side. For a 40v50, you'd get another MAX slot so it's 3v2 and you have faster cooldown times. For a 50v60 you'd both have 3 MAXes since it's mostly balanced, and the faster cooldown would then give the outnumbered faction a slight buff.

Numbers subject to change, still have issues with that model, but you get the idea. We can use MAX units to help even odds or maybe even make being outnumbered in a fight more rewarding, as you get to play with a power suit more often.

I really have no idea how anyone could think that limiting a unit is a good idea? large fight zerg vs zerg only 5-10 max per side? please thats stupid. Sure you can pull more max units from warpgate/nearby bases but that really only works with players talking in squad or /yells from warpgate it will fall apart as soon as you add the random players in.

You cannot limit stuff in a game which is meant to have huge combined arms forces, and as much as people like to think this isn't a 64 player TDM/Conquest, you bring what ever you need to get that base, sure there's a ton of things that need improving/revamping but removing/limited something is not going to help it will just push away players and put this game in the bin by next year

If I want to play a game where your limited in what class I can play i'd go to battlefield, RO2 or any other multiplier shooter out there,plus the sheer simplicity of how this can be the biggest griefing tool in the game is huge.

Yeah, along with that new piece of crap AM7-Archer.

i sincerely hope Mustarde already has an anti-MAXtage with the new AMR in the works

Wrong. YOU will be removed.

The original poster is a narcissistic *******... First he has a great k/d and is complaining about a class he has trouble with. Seriously WTF a-hole you create a whine post to try to further your own play-style while you already kickass?

If anything we should be removing Infiltrators. They do absolutely nothing for group combat and cause more frustration to new players than anything else. At least you can shoot at a Max when some lame *** sniper one shots you from render range you have zero chance to shoot back.

Maxs already cost a hell of a lot of certs, they suffer huge penalties versus explosives, and they are easy to spot.

I find it funny that the one infantry class a sniper can't one shot needs to be removed from the game according to the original poster who just happens to play an Infiltrator most the time because having a 3+/1 k/d just isn't enough lol!

What's the point of gathering an army then? Let's say I'm a force commander, I go through the trouble of gathering a full platoon of fighters so we can go cap a base that we need for an alert, while my comrades are stalling the enemy elsewhere.

Would it be fair, after all the effort, if my platoon is repelled by a squad and a half of scrubs in MAX suits?

Right now, I wouldn't mind removal of MAX.

The two new counters are so strong that it basically makes a MAX a very expensive AA unit.
At least with removal, I'd get refunded my certs..

Your bottomless disdain for the MAX is naked for the world to see.
I know you. I know you play this game just for the gun play.

You say it like we get this K/D from thin air or sheer luck. We WORK for it. Why our efforts should be denied just because they're "good enough" according to you?

Don't mix up snipers and infiltrators. Not every infiltrator is a sniper.

"From render range" - how about you try to snipe someone from 300m. Seriously, go to VR, try it. You'd be surprised how hard it is.
100-150m is the sensible sniping distance, more often shorter than that. Within that range it's totally possible to return fire and even kill the sniper. Shooting a MAX, on the other hand, is pointless. 99% of the time MAX will kill you before you kill him. Staying on the move or indoors is enough to almost never get sniped. I dunno how bad one has to be to have problems with snipers.

Sniping is hella boring, but at least it does require skill to hit a moving or distant target. MAX suit, on the other hand, any random scrub can pick up and go get some kills.

What penalties MAXes suffer against explosives? It takes direct rocket hits to kill one, more with flak armor. Basically immune to frag grenades and AI mines. What penalties?

You say this like you unveil some hidden truth here. I've been saying for years that MAXes are so obviously overpowered that only a very bad person would use them. Bad in both skill and character. I'm just pointing out that his solution wouldn't work for reasons provided.

I am making a statement that we can both agree on.
I'm just glad we have a foundation of understanding.

You've obviously never played a MAX if you think they are basically immune to frag grenades and AI mines. Just because it's not a one-hit kill does not infer immunity. A MAX without flak takes a significant amount of damage from grenades and mines and a MAX with flak takes a significant amount of damage from small arms fire. Flak armor provides up to a 50% reduction in explosive damage (and, to my understanding, this only affects the splash portion of rockets/shells, not the direct hit component) while kinetic armor provides up to a 37.5% reduction in smalls arms damage. Both are significant bonuses that every MAX will always be missing at least one of.

OBVIOUSLY I've reached BR100 without once stepping on AI mine. Inability to comprehend an obvious exaggeration and quoting numbers at me. Go do something more productive please.

P.S. Flak armor affects direct hits.

Who cares what my KD is? Does that have anything to do with maxes being balanced or not?

If you must know, I hardly snipe anymore, mostly play engineer, LA and HA these days (and 90% of my playtime is spent on VS now). I also pull AP lightning whenever the opportunity arises.

It's less about ME PERSONALLY having trouble with maxes as it is being frustrated at how a blatantly overpowered unit is able to be spammed at fights big and small, turning every good base contest into a Max vs. max slugfest. This game is so much fun when you have infantry and vehicles clashing over bases - but maxes have the mobility/firepower to suppress vehicles and the durability to laugh off infantry.

It results in fights that are really poor quality, and not nearly as much fun as this game has the potential to be.

I probably abuse max suits just as much if not more than they abuse me. That doesn't make them balanced and it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with my KDR, or my experience as an infiltrator.

I care what your BR is? Your argument is all I care about and gross overexaggeration is not productive, regardless of who you are.