[Suggestion] this game would be objectively more fun for a majority players if A2G ESF's were toned down.

There is nothing worst than having fun, enjoying a good infantry fight, and getting instantly gibbed by a rocket pod or that absurd NC "Airhammer" weapon with absolutely zero warning.

Sure you can stop what you are doing and dedicate 100% of your time to trying to fight off the ESF monkeys. But then again, you've limited yourself to being good against ONE thing now. While that ESF has sacrificed NOTHING to farm infantry, other vehicles, AND other ESF's.

ESF's are plain and simply bad for this game. They contribute nothing to the meta of Planetside 2, and exist purely to farm in the most cheap, effective, and overpowered way possible.

ESF's need to be relegated to scout vehicles and dogfighters. The air 2 ground spamming needs to be severely nerfed. If you want to do that, you should have to get some friends and pile into a Liberator or Battle Whale.

"Ground units should obviously stop what they're doing and deal with, nay, bask in the glorious presence of the skygods. Indeed, be thankful for them noticing us, the ground-dwelling worms, for we are not worthy. As their divine weaponry tear through our flesh, destroy our ground-bound machines, we can only hope we can one day attain the strength necessary to take to the skies ourselves."

This is what a pilot in PS2 sees when he or she reads the forums. They actually believe they earned all those ez mode farmville certs.

Another idea:

Current ESF -> two man machines, one pilot with no ability to shoot, second guy - gunner. Force to choose speciality. On AI - bloom and COF as on ANY INGAME FULL AUTO GUN, no more auto sniping from 400 meters. Sway on every possible AI weapon.
Bigger time penalty for switching seats to avoid "one man" fits 2man vehicle.

Introduce one man small flying vehicle. Like flying Flash. Each bullet hitting - hits pilot. Puny weapons like on Flash, puny health. Lets see how NOW "skygods" will operate on such even ground.

Yep, the radar bands are what I was referring to.
More over, I'm not entirely convinced "S" band radar is so useless for attacking a stealth aircraft.
For civilian uses, S band is quite often used iirc, for.. tracking aircraft. Including down to airports. Can't be off by a kilometer..
Modern missiles aren't launched "at a target"; they go to "around here, then turn on your own radar". There is a 2-way datalink, to confirm the target (avoiding friendly fire and all that.. also good to know the missile has picked up a target);
I'd suspect an S band radar could be quite usefull for such purposes.

Another option is something like the SM3; a missile in common use in US inventory, and some other nations: it exists with an infrared seeker. So, you have your S band radar, telling the missile "go about here and look"; then the infrared seeker takes over.
Advantages:
-you don't turn on an X-band radar, for which typically the ECM suite is most designed for (jamming an enemy "painter" laser would be pretty usefull..)
-the missile doesn't have a radar, so it can't be jammed. Flares are an option of course. But, infrared can be passive. A missile turns on it radar: pilot knows it. IR missile: suppose you have a flight of 4 aircraft up at altitude. How do you know for which one of you the missile is heading?
Anyway, I suspect most long range S2A missiles in use are have radar seekers, but the concept of long range infrared, guided by less accurate radars to an engagement zone, seems very, very dangerous for any aircraft.

"rather inexpensive and attractive".. I wouldn't consider the aftermath of a succesfull attack on a US carrier attractive ..
Those missiles will need guidance. In fact, that is a rather big issue with a lot of long range missiles. So, your destroyer now carries anti-ship missiles with a range of 250 km? Amazing. How are going to get a targetting resolution on say.. an enemy frigate at 250 km?
(UCAVS can play a role, but how much expenses are you willing to pay for good sensors, the UCAV it self could be targetted by long range AA, do you rely on satellites for the UCAV etc). No carrier, no awacs outside of reach of your landbases.

"Inexpensive": developping such missiles is far from inexpensive.. the list of countries able to do it, technologically and economically remains limited. Even fewer actually do it. And I wouldn't expect China, which is looking at developping a carrier fleet of it's own, to export those missiles.
At mach 6 for example, it ain't gonna be making sharp turns.. it needs to be big to carry sufficient warload, and fuel to carry fuel for the long range. -> Big, not extremely manoevring target.. not a wave-skimmer.. at mach 6 detecting it in infrared won't be an issue either.. -> CIWS gattling guns will be useless, but long range S2A missiles may be able to handle it.
The effectiveness of the missiles remains unproven, fortunately.
They would have to be used effectively; duality of war:
a weapon is only as good as it's wielder,
a warrior is only as good as his equipment permits.
Maybe the missiles are awesome, if you don't succeed in giving them guidance, you're firing million-dollar fireworks into the ocean.

However, IMO, regardless of such missiles: 9 billion is a lot of money for a ship that could probably be sunk by a 6-torpedo volley. (we'll assume the fleet has torpedo counter measures and employs em liberally if the target is the carrier.. ).
I also wouldn't be very enthousiastic of course about the prospect of gambling on my S2A missiles when the gamble has a value of 9 billion, and a few thousand crew. As a deterrent the missiles may serve their purpose very well.

A couple of smaller carriers are worth looking into.
See: Charles de Gaule, of the French.
It is a nuclear carrier, so it can steam pretty much unlimited.
versus Gerald Ford class: 42.000 tons vs 100.000 tons displacement.
According to wiki: 28-40 aircraft, vs 75+

261m by 64.36 by 9.43m vs 337 by 78 by.. unknown.
Panamax: according to research the Charles de Gaule is still too wide for the Panama channel.. well, there goes a nice bit of argument. Although, the "wide bit" of an aircraft carrier is quite a bit higher than the water level.. maybe it would fit.

I would add however:
AA being deterrent in return for ESF secondaries only deterring tanks is not balance either.
First, infantry remains vulnerable to being LOLPODDED, while the ESF leads the lock-on missiles into a tree, etc.

Second, ESF's aren't the only aircraft.
Liberator, Galaxy are game changers, much like the Sundy.
Galaxy deploys c4 fairy squad.. see how long your sundy's last.
Double walker sundy: if you're up on a hill, a galaxy can approach low, and you walkers can't even shoot it.. unless you mobilize, and drive to tilt the bloody thing! But now you have a gap in coverage, a blind spot, on the other side.. aaargh.

So no.. ESF becoming "deterence" only is not enough.
Liberator will always remain anti-ground. Galaxy's will be around.

--> We need effective G2A.
If indeed ESF's become weak at A2G (which I doubt will ever happen), one option is a G2A lockon or an infantry AA weapon that deals massive damage vs liberator and galaxy, but isn't feasable to be used vs ESF's.

Bringing up common sense like air is supposed to kill ground is the same thing as guns are supposed to kill people, not tanks. Realism?

I do tanks more than I do planes, and I can say I die to ground more than air now, because I never go out of cover. Seriously be a man and learn.

Only if G2A lockons are removed.

A2G in this state is already a deterrence, because you don't see one ESF soloing a whole tank zerg. It takes an air zerg to do the job. The Av capability of 1 ESF is pretty laughable. I used to be annoyed whenever I die to rocket pods but when I took up flying, it turned out to be harder than expected. Sure, you can say I'm not a good pilot, etc but if those people that lol podded me are better pilots than me, why are you punishing people for being good? Is it their fault? Try to be smarter and adapt.

Ps the whole skyknights thing is a joke, with the pilot's over inflated sense of honour, and ESFs in this game are never intended to be like this.

Haha what, dude do you even play the game, you want 1 ESF to solo a tank zerg, of course he can't it would be stupidly ridiculous like old lol pod days, if there's a tank zerg of 20 AA tanks then you really should be consider to use something other then aircraft or bring the exact same amount of A2G aircraft and use tactics to counter the AA.

The AV capabilities of 1 ESF is tremendous, hornets and rocket pods let you solo a tank and deal just about the same as a Vanguard AP cannon mounted on an ESF as a SECONDARY WEAPON CONTROLLED BY THE PILOT WITH A PRIMARY, what I don't get is why are ESF the only vehicle in the game with 2 functioning weapons controlled by 1 player and you seem to forget that luxury. [your secondaries can actually be used as fully functional primaries].

Flying A2A is hard, doing A2G on the other hand is down to your knowledge of when to run and whether or not that tank has a high enough angle to shoot you.

Like I said, I used to die to ESFs a lot when in tanks. But I've learned to adapt, like how I don't drive in the open, etc etc. Unfortunately, some people just think they should get whatever they like because they don't bother to learn. Which brings about nerfside 2. Well thanks for nerfing everything. We've seen people asking to nerf tanks against air, infantry against tanks. Everything should be nerfed actually, so there's nothing for anyone to complain OP about.

I would also like to add that when your doing A2G in an ESF and you get hit by AA, you are fighting more then 1 person because there's the tank and the AA source, so essentially it is a minimum of [Ground] 2v1 [Air].

It would be the vehicle equivalent of an ammoless meat shield MAX+Engie versus a heavy assault, you can shoot the max all you want as a HA but the engie can kill you if you stay too long. So what you do is kill the Engie [AA] in a 1v1 first because the MAX [Tank] is not a threat to you.

Adapt to what, tanks have to drive in the open because we're TANKS not INFANTRY, and don't you say find cover because there is none if you want to cower inside the vehicle spawn all day then you might as well be playing infantry.

I gave you 2 options to begin with, #1 to buff AA to actually kill, or #2 to nerf A2G.

Wow, this thread came so far. It's so sad seeing how much people despise air it makes me cringe. I enjoy flying, and i enjoy sometimes shooting at infantry, if i die i deserve it sure, but what i'm looking at is that all ground wants to do is rofl stomp everything, that's not right. I came to this game because of how different it was from everything else, now it has been " fixed " into the ground.

Drive in a convoy. No I didn't say I don't want AA to be buffed. I just didn't want another nerf like in this opening thread. That's why I suggested a "giraffe radar" to be purchasable on a Sunderer to allow AA to operate more efficiently, or a purchasable air radar for lightnings (on another thread). I don't mind buffing, but no more nerfing of anything. There is a difference between nerfing and buffing the counterpart or target.

You may not realise this but your idea of fun might just impact a whole lot more players ability to have fun. I am sure it feels great to have so much flexibility when spawning a vehicle. However, as ground I am forced into driving around in a tank with paper-thin armour specialised to dealing with air unit, well, acting as a deterrent anyways. Same story with the Burster MAX.

Meanwhile, I am occupying the same space as all other ground vehicles and infantry while being hopelessly outgunned.

I guess we could give all ground units an additional slot for some kind of tool where you could equip AA weaponry. Just to keep things in line with air units and their flexibility.

A good infantry fight? Maybe your opponent called for an airstrike from their pals (you can call for one too since this isn't Counter Strike, if you haven't already realised). ESFs are never meant to be scout vehicles, but multi role fighters. If you want a scout, equip the AB. If you want to be a Skyknight, same thing. If you want to be A2A with a situational edge, get Coyotes and Tomcat. If you want A2G, get LOL pods and Hornets. There is a reason why there are so many loadouts with so little different vehicles in this game. The Lib is a gunship with poor A2A capabilities, so naturally it is better in A2G. The Galaxy is just an air Battle Sundy with troop transport capabilities, not really that effective in A2G.

If you want those two flying tanks to take the lead in A2G, then you may have gotten more than you bargained for, because these two are even deadlier than your average ESF.

You are wrong when you said A2G contributes nothing. The gun run by that ESF made you lose that base you were attacking/ defending right? Because that ESF made a difference. Get your own ESF if you want to equal that difference. That is what makes PS2 so interesting. Or else there is this pretty nice game called COD.

Look mate ESF arnt what you think they are.

lot of people have trouble with them are people who don't know any thing, planet side 2 is a team based game, join an outfit and run with them and learn.

And as some one who fly's and is one of those terrors that people fixate on, I find I do as much damage with a air hammer against infantry as I would on the ground. my k/d is 3-4 no matter what I do.

so it rounds up to I kill 3-4 of your little friends and then I get shot down, by flak lock on-ons or other ESFs. So the problem your having is not really the ESF it the BR one 100's.

And think about it a lot of the time the ESF spends traveling so that it works out they do less impact then they would on the ground.

I'd like an AA Engi Turret!

Why is that sad? Infantry spamming SHOULD be despised, and those who do it viewed as cheesy players abusing an imbalance.

There's so many tanks and other aircraft in this game to shoot at. But of course, you guys want to focus on the easiest to farm unit to pad your stats and make you feel like you are skilled.

I would like one too. Not only would this improve infantry's chances towards the MLG ready AI-farmers but also solidify the role of the Engineer as a class which can set up a defence against anything the enemy can through at them. I mean, the engineer got two AI turrets and one AV, where is the AA turret? I wants it! NAO!