Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

The stock resistance + composite change made for a double buff. I don't have a problem with SOE at least trying the middle ground. It's more reasonable than the original update and can always be fully rolled back.

Thanks god, tank needed a bit more mobility and liberators needed to be beaten to death with the nerf bat, first solid change list I can look at and say "yup, I like everything on here". Maybe now some of the newer players will feel safer coming out of the spawn room knowing they have a chance to fight against the libarator, I love you guys! *sniff, sniff*

liberators should be strong A2G platforms, weak vs aircraft to some extent.

powerful belly guns against vehicles and infantry clusters.

The Nose guns shouldn't be stronger then the bellyguns, but should be useful no matter which one is used.


ESF's should be great at A2A combat and less effective against vehicles(unless using hornets + rotary), since vehicles are the liberators primary target.

If they are putting these changes in they should refund the certs/sc spent on the items affected and let the players decide if they still want to use them.

True enough, though I believe the Dalton should be removed from the Composite Armor resistance as well. 5 shots is ludicrous, coming from a Shredder pilot.

However, playing Ambush and hiding in Canyons and ditches doesn't work without stealth armour, which takes the same slot.
Hard to be sneaky if the opposition can see you on their Radar because you happen to be within 150 meters or so.
I know the Lib wasn't meant for this, but then, nothing was, and it's a seriously fun playstyle.

There's really no reason for Aircraft to ever fly low.

Since I'm usally flying not gunning sure lets do that. Point is vehicles are what make planetside unique and if you keep nerfing them to balance them with infantry then they become irrelevant. All that would be left is a first person shooter with pop imbalance. I play this game for the vehicles if there is no point using them there no point playing planetside.

technically this time around they are giving the liberator a role of A2G anti vehicle/Infantry clusters.

1. Did you happen to watch this video posted on an earlier page?



2. "Lib driving is relatively easy" - Then why do people say "You don't want me to fly. I'd get us killed" and "I can spawn a galaxy for the squad but I can't fly it"?

3. The lib that's stationary is the lib that dies.

4. If you found a squad guarding a staircase one might respond with concussion or anti vehicle grenades forcing a squad of defenders to spread. How is this different to sending a zepher or a tank round though a window? If infantry can get behind a max and drop c4 how is this different to a liberator flying around and tank-busting a duel burster max in the back? If one engineer turret can hold a hallway while his squad holds a courtyard how does this compare to one ESF holding a courtyard while his squad holds a hallway? If a max suit shows himself to get an enemy sniper to decloak and smiles as the max's ally counter snipes the enemy infiltrator doesn't it sound like a mosquito flying very high over a turret while his buddy infiltrator hacks said turret? Why doesn't a squad holding a roof-top get as much hate mail as the bulldog galaxy that put the squad on that roof?

5. "Effortless kills on low BRs" where is this coming from?

• Do flyboys target level ones to ruin their day or to practice ESF noseguns on fast moving drop pods?
• Do farmers look for the biggest infantry fights or does instant action put new players into a FARM-ABLE situation?
• Aren't low BRs the most likely to sprint into a dangerous situation?

I approve the above, signed: A shredder gunner.

Oh thank goodness. Reasonable people are starting to repopulate the thread!

The stats on players leaving after the liberator update shocked me. I honestly never noticed a change. Huh.

Anyway, Yay for nerf/buffing (known as tweaking). Armor and air are better then they were, but the still have a ways to go and I approve of SoE's steps.

Fenrisk there is no way you actually fly a Lib. I have over 1000 vehicle kills in a Lib, this is simply not the case, at least not on Mattherson. if you hover for any amount of time, you're going to get locked on or burstered (through the spawn shields) or even more likely, another lib is going to TB you down in a second. again, read the posts from Lib pilots who have DAYS of time in a LIb, they die so fast, the only thing that saves a Lib against multi-AA is running behind a mountain and repping, which takes lots of practice to figure out how to point the gunner correctly EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT THE GUNNER SEES or flip one to take out an ESF without hovering yourself right into the ground. believe me, Walkers and AP rounds do plenty of damage, enough that we're not going to "hover around" after getting hit by either.

and a related point, if you got solo'ed by a Lib while in a tank or another aircraft, either that guy is really good or you are really bad / alone. we used to get solo'ed by the best and I never cried "they need to nerf _____" , it sucked but we got better and I have respect for those guys.

but, I also spend time in a tank, shells should do the damage they used to from main guns to aircraft, I mean, it's a tank shell with low velocity, if you can hit something with it, there should be a reward - but not from beyond aircraft visibility range. something else ground forces that don't fly don't realize. everybody can see us before we see them and depending on the terrain below we can still be hit by AA at world height sometimes.
but we need friendly tanks on the ground to take out the AA and they need us to take out the AV turrets. I hope the range changes don't impact this or you're going to have a lot of campers in turrets after this.

- Feem

You hover directly above the spawn room and they can't even hit you through the spawn shields but you can hit anything that dares poke it's head out. Get 2 Lib's doing this and the spawn room is locked down for the reminder of that fight. That is the most common lib tactic across servers.

Hitting a lib with a tank shell at any range past 50m requires a extreme amount of skill. Heck it's impossible if the libs above you. The low velocity, limited firing arc and high drop on tank shells makes hitting anything airborn hard as hell. Is that skill rewarded? Hell no. It's still slower to kill a lib using AP rounds then it is a lib to take you out using it's tank buster/dalton. This is despite the fact it's 1000 times easier to hit a tank with a dalton/tank buster then it is to hit a lib using a AP rounds.

This is why I think it makes for an interesting choice. If tanks are paying attention you'll want stealth, but you might get away with composite armor since many don't watch the map closely or would guess the lib is way higher. If they do see you and hit you, you take less damage.

Couldn't we agree that poor base design can be attributed to this? And as it stands none of the proposed changes serve to alleviate spawncamping by any vehicle. Be it a MBT, Liberator, Lighting, Gal, or ESF.

Being a real pilot myself with 3000+ hours logged, I find flying in PS2 much harder than flying a real airplane, and much harder than flying in a game like Arma III.

Good list.

-MAX resistance to shredder damage is desperately needed, it's like they're made of paper.
-Tankbuster should probably have the magazine upgrades reduced so there isn't so much disparity between uncerted and certed libs. Relying on damage changes will just make the stock version even worse.
-Similarly, the ammunition changes might make more sense if it reduced the cert gain rather than stock ammunition.
-I'd love to see vehicle spawns more restricted but SOE keep going in the opposite direction.
-Seat swapping nerf, yes please! I'd like to see a 3 sec delay on entering/exiting/seat swapping in all vehicles. PS1 apparently had enter/exit animations that, apart from looking cool, add in a time sacrifice and vulnerability for better balance. This was asked for at release but I guess was too much work. A delay would at least replicate the balance side.
-While messing around with audio, 1) Galaxies need to be louder too, 2) it would be really nice if the stealth cert reduced the audio on all vehicles. Not appearing on the mini-map becomes useless if they hear you anyway, so it'd perfectly fit. Of course, I'm only asking for a reduction not a silencing (and a stealth Lib should still be louder than it is now).
-Range of motion change makes sense. If any weapon should have higher range of motion it should be the shredder as it leans more towards anti-air design. Though that may be unnecessary.

What makes you favor a higher deadzone? That seems like it would increase the gap between the experienced lib pilots and newer ones without much benefit. Many pilots found it incredibly annoying.


That reminds me of an interesting suggestion for limiting the belly guns that works well with range of motion and deadzone mechanics:

-Traverse speed - This limits how fast you can switch targets and engage in completely different directions. Shredder has fastest movement speed, Dalton or Dalton + Zephyr slowest.

Idea taken from here.

Amen brother, there is something amazing about having such a sence of community that pilots from other factions come on our teamspeak to chat, not to insult, but chat as friends.

I don't like giving out stats, find it cheesy.. .. but this one has me boiling.. so here.
I have over 230hrs in a Prowler.. FBTerran.. check for those who care.. I do know a little bit about tanking.. just a little.

as a tanker I am more than annoyed by the Lib changes.... Most Lib pilots said they never wanted the buffs that they received the last time around.. most forumsiders complained heavily.. but SOE went ahead anyway.
So, here we are, SOE got a crap storm of complaints.. and, .. instead of just simply removing the buffs, they now want to go beyond it and nef the Lib...
The tankers that I know didn't ask for that. The Lib pilots didn't ask for the buff.. and they mostly agreed to just move the Lib back to where it was.
SOE.. why are you going so far beyond everything that the community is asking for?
You could just remove the latest buffs.. bring the Lib back to where it was and all will be OK>.. you can then still nerf the heck out of it, LATER....

Same for Tanks. Most tankers I know only ever asked for minor increases in shell speed, for all types, for all factions and small decrease in drop, for all types, for all factions... a 5-10% change would have been HUGE for the enjoyment of tanks.
SOE, why do you believe that ALL tankers will enjoy it when they have to get closer? You might as well tell snipers that their rifles will no longer hit anything more than 50 meters away...... sniping happens from a distance.. so does tanking., at least intelligent, tactical and strategic tanking ---- what is he point of a powerful tank cannon if you can't shoot far with it.. ??

PLEASE.. come to your senses.... can't you see the forumside up in arms???

Here is a very easy solution: bring the Lib back to where it was before the latest buff..DON'T do anything else to the Lib
and DON'T touch tanks , at all. Just leave it be. Then watch the game unfold for 3 months .. then we can have an educated / experienced discussion.
If, after that, you then want to install turret stabilization.. meh.. ok.. do it then. BUT DON'T touch the shell velocity.. pr drop.. just because you think getting closer is more interesting..

SOE, you are always trying to do TOO MUCH .. all at once.. take baby steps... Why can't you guys learn that?

I agree with you on most points:

MAX units do die quite quickly to a Shredder, although that typically means they're in close range.

Reducing the magazine size rather than outright reducing damage does seem like a more viable option, however it's still unforgiving to newer players and some "happy-medium" must be found between the risk aspect and the reward.

Agreed.

Maybe.

There is an inherit delay in swapping seats, if you try and swap too quickly you actually force a longer delay.

Audio changes would be good, maybe even a new audio file, I really liked the updated Dalton sounds, a possible benefit to the stealth tree wouldn't be too bad, within reason.

The Shredder has the worst angles for leading targets, which seems rather counter-productive as it's the one belly gun that requires constant leading, not just one or a couple of shots to be fired. Slowing turret rotation isn't a bad idea - how would this scale with mouse DPI?