C4 - Overused and needs to be toned down

C4 will sometimes get you- no offense but in a lot of these threads it seems like the problem is not that tanks are getting destroyed as soon as they are pulled or anything but rather that sometimes that C4 wins and people just cannot stand that.

Everybody says that the C4 is legitimate cause you didn't pay atention i think the striker was the same if you didn't know when to fly out of the hot zone you died.People called it OP and call this legitimate. Justice=0

Sorry duble post.

For a start, I don't think medics should be able to carry them.

Heavy doesn't need it, and neither does LA, although I'll get flamed for saying that.

Engis should really have it, they're the demolitions class.

Yeah and if C4 could be fired 300 meters and follow your tank behind cover you'd have a point.

Heavy assault is demolition like too though, I would concider engi being closer to sitting back and supporting then pushing to the front line with C4. I like the idea of light assault with C4, the class and playstyle sets itself apart from other games. I'm ok with C4 fairies, I'm not ok with many other classes being able to use it, a tank shouldn't have to be afraid to insta die to 4/5 infantry classes on foot, especially support classes.

Slightly off topic but...
I personaly see LA as having the most powerful tool in the game, it comes in 2 forms, drifter or jump jet.
While absolutely true it is no help in a 1v1 firefight where youve both seen each other, that isnt what its for - the jetpak or the class. If you have to engage enemies a LA should pretty much always be shooting first and from a alternate angle (preferably above), not where the 50 heavies have to trek. LA has realy come into its own in this respect since the nano balancing, without the headshot stopper a LA in an elevated position will land headshots all day long with ease.
My bro plays LA pretty much constantly and he is very effective with it. A random example of where LA is useful - in a tank and some pesky heavy playing peekaboo behind some rocks, or up on a cliff shooting rockets, happens all the time. I simply drive towards the rock and he jumps out jetting up and over the rock, by the time the heavy knows hes out the tank its too late.
The ability to traverse all terrain without having to go around is an extremely powerful tool and is often overlooked by LA activists.

To clarify - I dont class overall effectiveness as lots of kills no deaths, thats combat effectiveness, overall effectiveness i class as taking out the required target at the required time (eg sniper on a hilltop), flipping that point to pull some of the defenders away from a chokepoint, placing that squad beacon where its hard to get to, providing battlfield overview and relaying it to teammates on TS/Vent/Mumbe or the games voice chat, sneaking up to and c4ing that tank thats been trying to camp us, destroying the enemy AMS and crippling their respawn ability.

Whining is overused and needs to be toned down.

Tanking? be aware of your surroundings and don't get tunnel vision. use third person view religiously.

infantry? know the common flanking path of LA's, don't stand in clusters in places that can easily be C4'd by a LA.

also it's 100 infantry resources per C4. I could just as easily equip my skill suit and kill just as many, if not more, than 4 bricks of C4 will give me.

is one of the gentlemen, claiming C4 is so overpowered and easy to use, willing to show me an uncut video of them using that stack of 40 C4 with no less than, say, 20 dead tanks and maybe 80 or so dead infantry ?

I definitely would kill more tanks with a dual falcon MAX than I would with four bricks of C4. More infantry, too.

I wouldn't have nearly as much fun, mind... but I'd get more kills.

I'll bite.

I'm not saying that LA is not fun or that it cannot have a big impact on the field.

However, whenever I hear this brought up I find it funny how a slow-mo (defenseless) Luigi jump outclasses or is on par with...

1) Sheild + OHK RL (against infantry) and RLs of all different flavors + Concussion grenades or AV grenades + 100 round magazines

or

2) Infinite health for yourself or others (AOE mind you) + revives + revive or heal grenades + ARs exclusivity + free slot for C4 (since you have no need of the medkits)

or

3) Different flavors of near invisibility + exclusivity to a plethora of ranged OHK weapons + radar darts + hacking + mines + motion sensor + EMP grenades

or

4) Infinite ammo for you and other + infinite infinite ammo turrets (1 that is AV and can deal damage beyond the distance of effective retaliation) + mines + infinite repair goo + sticky grenades

So the LA having jetpacks + flash grenade is equal to or greater than those inherent options because LA can defenselessly move in 3 dimensions? I do not buy it and think that it is no surprise whatsoever that you frequently hear calls for "Medic, MAX, Engineer" and not "we need more LAs". There was a time when infiltrators were the lowest scoring and medics were the least played, while LA was second lowest scoring and second least played. Now, that was some time ago but I would put some money on LA now being the lowest scoring and the least played class in the game- Medic sure is not the least played any longer and I doubt that infiltrator is the lowest scoring.

How many places in the game do you think there are that are both 1) effective locations in the first place and 2) LA exclusive? Getting into elevated and out of the way locations is by no means a LA exclusive ability despite being easier for LA to achieve. Moreover, if you are in a location that is essentially LA exclusive then you have 0 support (no ammo, no cover fire, likely no easy retreat, no revives, no heals). Let alone that the moment you start shooting your tracers light you up for any other enemies nearby- effectively negating your "surprise" flank attack, giving away your position entirely, and usually forcing death or retreat.

Like I said, LA is fun and can be effective but unlike the other classes it does not come with the kind of tools that the other classes have that just by using make you more effective. A LA jetpacking up to an elevated position is a sitting duck, a LA in an elevated position is less than just about any other class if that class is in the same or similar position. How much skill does it take to press F and have more health? How much skill does it take to throw a revive grenade or heal/revive a player? We also have to remember just how many cap points are in small indoor areas where jetpacks are more or less worthless.

A LA without C4 is often just a character in a tree or on a rooftop. If you feel that being able to go ^ is equal to or greater than the goods available to the other classes then we can agree to disagree.

Striker never could fallow your tank behind cover that is why we got a fix now striker rockets go straight to the moon thank you.

I've only been killed with C4 once while I was in a tank. You wanna know what I was doing?

I pulled an uncerted Vanguard and camped under a cliff for a few minutes, without switching to 3rd person once. I didn't even have a gunner. Frankly, I deserved to die.

I'm sad that you can't comprehend the data you try to use as your ''proof''. Comparing C4 which is on all factions to faction specific guns? Divide it by 3 and you'll have the real value you're searching for. Now go do some high school level stats before embarassing yourself some more.

It costs me 200 resources to blow up a tank. I have to be within petting distance to do it and I have to share those resources with all the other infantry consumables, of which there are many. That gets me 1 kill, maybe 2.

It costs you 450 resources to pull a tank. You can get those kills from 0-300m or more and as a dedicated tank driver you share those resources with nothing. This gets you at least 10 kills, easily 30+ if you're not stupid with it.

Meanwhile other infantry AV weapons are decimating armor columns at 600m+. They're ruining armor fights because no place is safe from them, even tanks actively engaging other tanks get harassed by them constantly. Simply put, there's no area where this AV isn't effective.

And where is C4 effective? On tanks that park themselves in infantry infested areas and tanks that camp a place for long periods of time. And that's it. The two situations tanks have no business being in.

I think as far as AV is concerned C4 is the most balanced tool in the game. And despite my LA avatar I think that's objectively true, if you disagree I'd love to know why.

And no one thinks the current Striker is any good. You were trying to compare C4 to the pre-nerf Striker, which was death to anything stupid enough to drive near the TR.

C4 is very powerful, but limited by mobility (Like a MAX). Quit wining guys, if you got C4'ed, you more than likely being stupid.

@MostlyClueless, The striker was good with Teamwork, just 1 striker is as useless as an annie...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14EZDbMolx-GzLvQFAWAKKCDEkaKaZFIMDuX0EMLGMz4/edit?pli=1#gid=0

There, I've done it for you. C4 is rank #1, #2, and #3 for vehicle kills. Next is vehicle suicide, and rounding out the top 5 is Titan AP! Gee who would've thought?

Basically you think tanks should be mobile long range artillery, not an actual tank. Your whole line of argument makes no sense. You want C4 to kill tanks because you hate OP farming, but you think tanks should sit back and do exactly that way back so even that doesn't work.

That's pretty weird. I never would have imagined that the most available (and in most cases, the only) tool available to infantry for killing vehicles would be high up on a vehicle kill list. The very notion is completely inconceivable!