[Suggestion] The Ultimate Thread Dedicated to Refurbishing TR as a Faction

I would most likely agree with you if both NC and VS didn't have faction specific anti tank secondariness for their MBT's That can hit targets from any range accurately and reliable.

The NC enforcer does 500 damage per shot wile having a 10 shot mag bringing its damage per mag to 5000 damage. On top of that it has a high velocity and no spread making it deadly to vehicles at any range. The NS Halberd only shoots a single 1000 damage round and has a longer reload speed. The Halberd is the TR's only long range anti tank weapon

The VS Saran is not as powerful as the enforcer but does have a faster rate of fire. It does 284 damage per shot and has 6 rounds in a mag. It's damage per mag is 1664. It loses accuracy after each shot but can stay perfectly accurate at long range by taking time to fire each shot.

The vulcan does shred health on tanks at point blank range (Dealing around 5000 damage in a mag with a fast fire rate) but it is almost impossible to use out side of 50 m. This does complement the prowler's speed allowing you to get close to a target before firing but as said by in the first post the prowler does not have anything to assist in this play style. Rushing into a position will most likely result in you dying to other tanks or infantry. The reason people are upset about the vulcan being nurfed to a close range weapon is because the prowler is so mis matched in design and balance. The vulcan is the least versatile out of any anti tank secondary. It fills one roll and that is it and when your MBT is trying to fill two rolls that are compleat opposites having a non versatile weapon is a large disadvantage.

Either the prowler need to be reworked with a new ability that helps it in those fast passed encounters or the vulcan needs to be reworked to be more consistent at all ranges. If that involves lowering its point blank Dominica so be it.

My solution would be to keep the rate of fire because that is what people enjoy but raise the mag size and lower the damage per shot. This will keep the fast RPM that people enjoy wile decreasing the DPS of the weapon. If you companied this with an accuracy buff then I can see the vulcan being on par with the enforcer at more ranges wile keeping it balanced and fun to use. This way it will feel much like a real mini gun with sustained fire of bullets that will shred a target over time not in a 30 round burst.

Hey I have an idea; crossbow.

The Commissar Hat just screams out "Tactical Superiority.!"

was playing NC in Miller yesterday. TR was kicking the heck out of us. don't know that TR needs any buffs.

This is the thread dedicated to refurbishing the TR, this is not a buff the TR/ make the TR OP thread. Please read the first post in full, thanks.

That never happens when im onAlmost feel trolled by Planetside right now.

There are semi auto rifles that can do this due to singlet shot mode or burst weapons. But all other factions have similar weapons with an even better accuracy.
CN heavies can snipe against sniper rifles with their own rifles.

TR is the lowest played faction overall for a reason. It is not looks or other stuff, but that their playstyle is sometimes the exact opposite of what it should be and cause it lacks some intuitive stuff that CN and Vanu have (e.g. Max Shield+ pumpgun; special rocket launcher, ...).

CN is by far the most played faction. They are outnumbering everything when they want to. It is not cause they are OP (MAXes probably) but cause they have variation, choices and cool stuff. Their weapons and combinations of upgrades make sense.

I do not feel the overall balance between factions is completely out of whack, however as a TR mainly infantry player I look at my arsenal of weapons (so many 143 damage weapons) and I can not find anything that the other factions do not have. A NC player can look to the Gauss Saw with its pin point accuracy and high damage bullets and Pheonix, the VS can look at the SVA and Orion with their x0.75 movement multiplier, the Lasher and the Lancer. While you can go into the nitty-gritty of the horizontal recoil etc(which is important for balance) they are kind of hidden attributes, what I feel is important that there is a weapon(s) that screams 'this is TR', something which the NC/VS look at and say 'oh we dont have anything like that'.

I believe the current populations reflect the current lack of variety the TR suffer from, why play TR when you get more toys with NC and VS.

Oh wow, were you on Amerish or Esamir at a low NC pop base? Cause NC has 36 % pop on Miller rofl.

A laser guided rocket

To me at least it seems that all infantry is much the same playing style and the weapons across factions don't really stand out as unique.... Any of them.
Well, sure the NC max stands out, but beside that.

I realize there's a big balance issue hidden in the stats.

But It doesn't even work on paper high rate of fire that's inaccurate over range vs NC's hard hitting and precise over range.
I suppose that would even out. If NC did not have the close quarter MAX that nullifies the above stats.
I just don't think SOE ever planned anything on paper and never will.

And yea it does seem pretty ******** to have a racer tank..... With the special ability to lock down in papertank mode.

Not seen a lockdown max in months..... That being said I rarely see ZOE maxes anymore.

Not seen a Vulcan since it got over nerfed on anything. Wish I could say the same for empire spercifigs for NC or VS.
Since these are pretty much standard out there.

I don't even know what VS lore should give them, I thought it was energy weapons? Aren't these supposed to shoot even longer and not reloading? cooldown instead? Damage loss over distance? Stuff like that?
Seems their weapons are just as unique as the TR with a very few exceptions.

non unique weapons are a blessing. The less unique the more balance. Folks get completely twisted over anything unique... Magrider... umnnn Vanguard shield.... umnnn Striker...

I don't get the point in talking about damage per mag. Extreme case: imagine a weapon with 10 dmg per bullet, 1000 rounds magazine, 500RPM -> 10000 dmg per mag, OP !

The Vulcan was too good, but now it is a bit too extremely gimped to point-blank range firing. Not 200m anymore, but I would be fine with 100 before it goes to the crapper. I also think the Vulcan got rather nerfed due to Harassers shooting tanks with it. Unlike the Prowler they can do this drive by and shoot and dust off thing.

Mobility, Speed - the TR and VS "traits" of their tanks, are quite interesting, but none of these is so strong that it can make up for an accurate and more powerful main gun with high velocity and little drop, and that's what the Vanguard has.

There are instances where a Magrider can outmaneuver an enemy tank and shoot it in the back, there are also instances where a Prowler can close in and shred a tank with the Vulcan. But that is simply not the normal case and reality of tank warfare in Planetside 2. Reality, that's where the damage shield of the Vanguard and the best main gun have the edge. If anyone would give a crap about point blank range defense, the Canister gun of the Vanguard would have some more lovers.

We don't have the highest RoF weapons. did you actually try the weapons for yourself? Highest horizontal recoil , heard of it? yep its unpredictable and you can't compensate for it.
The weapons that we have are just not as good as the ones the NC and the VS does, I never said they are unusable,just inferior.
(same goes to our max, mbt, striker and pretty much everything else)

What good do 10 more bullets give you, if you're already dead because you were outgunned?

The idea to give a short range gun to a tank that performs as artillery was just stupid... doesn't matter how you look at it. (and no, it was never too good, it was the harasser that was OP).

Here is my issue, those characteristics where created over 10 years ago, and they sound great on paper as a means to a-symmetrically balance and differentiate different factions in a competitive multi-faction FPS shooter. However, in practice weapons with high rates of Fire with large ammo capacities that allow for maximum sustained damage are generally the weapons that most players gravitate to because they are the most effective in an FPS shooter, with the exception or rather alternative choice of shotgun type weapons for CQC and other specialized weapon types. So designing one faction around those traits gives them an inherent advantage in an FPS setting.

Consistent and reliable damage is also a difficult thing to balance between factions, because consistent and reliable = easy to use, which allows for less skilled or newer players to be more effective then their counterparts, which again becomes a balance issue, see NC complaints since beta about naturally more difficult to use weapons. If about 20% of each empire at any given time is populated with low skill or new players, then the empire with the most consistent and reliable damaging weapons is going to have an advantage, because that 20% are going to be more effective, then the 20% from another faction with more difficult to use weapons.

Personally, I think all three empires need a weapons overhaul. And that all empires should basically have access to knock off versions of every other empires weapons, but they will need to more heavily cert into them, to get the same statistics.

For example, For every empire specific weapon, the other empires will have a comparable knock off weapon. However, in its basic form it is sub-par to the Empire specific weapon it is meant to be a copy of. Therefore, the Empire that owns the ES weapon doesn't need to put many if any certs into the weapon for it to reach its maximum capability, but the other two empires would need to heavily invest certs into the knock-off version to maximize and match the other empires ES weapon.

Take the Phoenix as an example. An NC player would purchase the Phoenix and not need to put any additional certs into that weapon because it is at its maximum capability. The TR & VS should have access to a knock off of the Phoenix, however it is weaker, has less range, less ammo capacity etc, etc. But if the TR or VS invest 3-4000 cert points into that weapon, then it would match the NC's Phoenix that required no additional cert investment.

Great points. I don't necessarily disagree, but feel designing weapons around these traits is difficult to balance and we pretty much had a huge balance pass, pretty much because of those traits.

TR infantry game is broke and you're all addicted now hit this glass pipe and smoke a cig.

I don't think consistent reliable damage is that difficult to balance at this point, because the developers already got 2-3 faction weapons right. Lets look at the factions. The VS have the lowest recoil weapons, have a quick reload, and there weapons also have a pretty high ROF. As long as you can aim and make use of the accuracy advantage you are given you should be a killing machine, and the quick reload speeds help the VS out even more so. I fell that the TR are not the consistent and reliable damage faction due to the horizontal recoil our guns have, while the VS with their low recoil and fast reload speeds are probably better for consistent reliable damage. Of course this may not always be the case on paper, but on the battlefield I think it pans out a little different. (though correct me if I'm wrong by saying this.)



Then you have the NC, which I believe have the most variation in weapons that fill different damage scale and different weapon niches. Overall they have a slower ROF but their first bullet shot is very accurate, they overall have harder hitting weapons, and if you can make your first shot a head shot and know how to compensate for vertical recoil by pulling your mouse down they have great mid-long range weapons followed by great shotguns and shotgun maxes for close range.

Then you have the TR, we have the highest average ROF, however by how much and does it really stand out? Secondly while our weapons are bullet hoses making them good at close range but lack luster and longer ranges consider this... Do other factions have good smg's or shotguns that also perform well at close range? The answer is yes. Then we have more bullets, cool but is it worth it at the cost of having uncompensatable side to side horizontal recoil and long reload times? I would wager it's really not worth it and we end up with weapons which can't be fully mastered, at least to the level a Gauss Saw or Orion could. It would be nice if we had more weapon alternatives, and if we could lose the extra bullets traits for some of our weapons in order to maximize on accuracy.

The TR weapons also used to be balanced around the bullet flinch mechanic at the beginning of the game, which meant if you got hit your accuracy was thrown off. This gave the TR weapons a strength because hey even if you hit the guy in the leg the flinch was going to make up for the sub par accuracy on the gun at range. Once bullet flinch was significantly reduced however, and it was a good change since many agreed it was an annoying mechanic, I don't think the TR weapons were given enough attention to think how much this change would impact them. Again I'm not saying we don't have good weapons, but I am saying we could use more accurate mid-long range LMG's or weapons with high vertical recoil with less horizontal recoil. Despite the strengths of TR weapons, I think that balancing them around uncompensatable side to side horizontal recoil was a really bad call.

All factions could use a weapons overhaul of course, I even have helped with the assistance of the Ultimate thread to refurbish the VS, but I made this thread because 1. I'm a fan of the TR, 2. No one was willing to put in the level of effort to make this quality of thread about the majority of the TR's problems, and 3. I think the TR are the faction that need its weapon's overhauled/refurbished the most and after I laid everything out on the table I hope I provided a very strong case on for why that is.


I really think the developers need to stop giving us NS weapons with more bullets and more horizontal recoil. I think if our guns are going to be balanced around recoil it needs to be vertical or at least 1 directional recoil that a professional soldier could master. It's BS that the TR after centuries of having the most reliable weapons from earth would choose the ones would horizontal recoil that no amount of training could compensate for. I think the developers also need to look into our ES weapons and think, "Is what I'm putting into the game fun and interesting, and does it have the fun factor that other VS/NC faction weapons/abilities have?" If the developers asked themselves this they would likely find the answer to be no. I mean look at the upcoming TR liberator weapon, it's basically a re-skinned Zypher Cannon which is less accurate than the normal Zypher. I'm sick and tired of being given these inaccurate NS type weapons.

The Vulcan should have a similar range to the Saron/Enforcer ML85

The Marauder should have a greater range than it does now, and should probably be made into a weapon which is not a re-skinned Fury.

The Striker needs to be given a totally new mechanic, whether giving it the ability to fire coyote missiles or making it shoulder mounted Gatling Gun fracture rocket launcher we should not have gotten an ES rocket launcher which other factions can easily copy with the Annihilator. I don't think the developers are going to give the TR access to Lancer and Phoenix NS variants, so the solution would be to make the TR weapons more fun and interesting.

Thank you for the detailed response Axiom, and I'm glad so many people can relate with what I'm saying in this thread.

oops