K/D All servers all factions.(repost from reddit).

And in the big picture that is still nothing. It is still the same numerical difference.

And it's still a large one, something we might call "statistically significant" especially given the mass of other aggregate data. That's a landslide victory in an election, or the difference between bonus payouts and layoffs.

It´s a trend that shows what the WDS already did. That the NC outperformed and this on every Server. And 3-4% can easily turn a battle

this is an astonishingly stupid attempt at an argument

so every 1000 deaths the averageWaterson VS kills 894 enemies, the average NC kills 861 enemies. Difference 33 kills. Keep in mind the data is raw k/d so the factor revive counts not as death is out of the equation.

We end up with a difference you wouldn't notice in a large 48+ vs 48+ tower fight. A single tank or c4 light assault can pick up the 33 kill difference in 2-3mins, even if 28 of them are spawn kills that ain't worth much points (HEAT/Frag/C4 into a rezz nade spot -> profit), they still count towards raw K/D.

The other interesting question is: Are these stats all-time stats? If they are than it shows even worse game balance because in the first 3-4 months NC could farm in biolabs with their maxes all day.

My main is TR but I think the devs should check what the mail problem is with the NC.

Considering that a thousand deaths can happen in a few minutes that leaves 33 guys that can turn a point. Honestly what are we talking about. Do you really want to tell me that everything is fine with the NC? Worst k/d on every Server, last at the WDS and barely wins a alert.

Do you really think this is a l2p issue and not a balancing issue?

I agree with all, except that it's trolls doing the 'cry moah' stuff. On the whole I don't believe this to be the case. Obvious examples aside, and extending this passed forum discussion and onto what carries into game, it's more 'average players' that get that impression. When people aren't that interested to really get into the stats and the huge discussions* that come from there, so all they can see is that for every 'X gun doesn't do as well as Y', they can see a 'Z outperforms Y though' response, people get the impression (as in most games) that the balance arguments are 'grass is always greener' arguments. The metric used here is a direct counter to that, and that is a remarkably helpful thing to have.

Next time you're in game and people are on the 'NC UP' 'Oh no they're not', 'Oh yes they are', kinda panto in /yell chat, try throwing the spanner in the works that on every server, across every character ever, regardless of outfits and faction pop, NC always have a lower KDR than both of the other factions. THEN you get either 'NC need to L2P - lonewolfers ha!' (trolls) or 'Wow, really? Fair enough' (average gamers that have just been educated without needing to take in more than a sentence of information).

*The huge discussions referred to I'll demonstrate with your point regarding average KPH. This is calculated by how long a weapon is out, not how long it's in your pack, and I believe continues counting up whilst you're in a vehicle. This means that an obvious (regardless of validity) counter argument to any comparison derived from KPH is 'Yeah, but Striker users have to have the Striker equipped for longer than Lancer users, because they must wait for their target to fly into range, then they have to lock, then they have to fire all 5 shots, and hold on target until those shots finally hit, thus it will be counting up hours faster than the Lancer, despite doing higher DPS.' The stat increases in validity the more similar the usage of the weapons is, of course, but it's still that same clutter that turns most people off getting involved in discussions, and would make it impossible to get the point across in a /yell discussion without jumping down 100 rabbit holes.

Another point that creates even more 'noise' in discussions stemming from KPH is relevance. Let's say we don't have this metric showing NC's underperformance, and we don't have our prior knowledge of NC consistently having the worst performing classes etc etc. The only thing we have is anecdotes, and KPH data. So we look at the 'most important' weapons to try to find some reasons. We compare starter LMGs. The SAW's KPH is lower (this is hypothetical, I don't know the current numbers) than the Orion and CARV. We champion this as the reason NC are underperforming, calling for a buff to the SAW.

The response that's unassailable is 'How much effect does that have though?' - sure, it's the main weapon used by the main class, but what about the other LMGs? We already know most NC give up on the SAW and move to more useful LMGs quite fast. Now we need all of that data too (and the same for VS and TR so we're looking at the whole picture). Let's say the picture stays the same. Fine. But now someone drops the 'MAX' bombshell, arguing that MAXs make up for a huge amount of success in infantry fights, and are probably the affecting factor in the relative performance of the LMGs. Now we're expanding the picture. What if it were the other way; NC's MAX was overperforming - is it stealing the kills from the LMG users?! Or worse... Are the factions balanced because the NC LMG is worse performing and the NC MAX is better performing? Now we're just back to the anecdote that we feel like we're at a disadvantage whilst in game.

With this metric, we have a solid case that it's not just anecdotes and whining. We are at a disadvantage. The only thing to do now is to start tweaking things to find out what balances the equation. Try out a buff to the SAW (actually a switch to the EM6 first please? ), and maybe fix the Vanguard secondary. See what the effect is. Sure, it might be the MAX that's causing the disparity, but if it's not, we'll know, and if it is, we can revert and try a change to the MAX etc. Homeorhesis in action. Let's get on it!

Whether you'd notice it in A tower fight rather misses the point.

Trying having your wage rise 3-4% below inflation for a few years, you probably won't notice it for the first year (or at least you won't realise what it is that is making you feel so short of cash), but it soon adds up.

If you can't compensate 4% it is a l2p issue. But a non existing issue. Even mirror balanced games like BF3/4 got deviations on 100% equal equipment greater than +/- 15% in K/D and Performance across the board. You can't nerf equal weapon systems.

No I don't say there isn't something wrong but it's not NC is UP or TR/VS are OP.

The issue can be brought down to one point: NC need a good outdoor AI weapon weapon like the Marauder, Light PPA, ZOE or the Infanterie skeet shooter Prowler. That's the only difference. TR and VS can efficiently engage a large number of infanterie targets in medium-long range while enjoying the mobility of a harasser / a max suite or the safety of a tank. NC can't and that's the only problem.

I play all 3 factions equally so yea i play with and against all of them.
Infanterie weapons NC is on pair, they even got 3 of my favorite guns, AC, EM6 and Jackhammer.
Max: Indoor/CQC they're kings outdoor well there is something missing, range and stopping power.
Vehicles: AT very good with the VG Shield being a "I win" button". AI well as I said they just don't have a real option for it. So I tend to use my Viper Lightning for the duty I usually get my friend to gun my PPA/Marauder Harasser and be at least twice as efficient.
Aircrafts: A upgraded reaver is as good as any other ESF. Yea it's a brick but I have no problem to 1on1 any upper class enemy esf or going 2-3 on 1 vs "bad" pilots

Maybe we are already compensating otherwise it would be a 10% difference

It is laughable how you try to argue. So we should play better than everybody else to become even?

Bunp

This is very good empirical evidence that there is something wrong with NC.

Is it the gear? Well, from experience it's definitely situational and hard to use (and our deficiencies in medium-long range MAX and vehicle AI weaponry are acknowledged by most), so it's a plausible hypothesis.

What else could it be? Overpop and the presence of particular outfits or players could explain one server, but that would balance out across all of them. Perhaps the NC attracts more players who like being the rebel and not organised military people? Perhaps the VS and TR like to gang up on the NC across all servers (this does seem to be the case on Miller)? The simplest explanation though is that our weaponry is worse – and even the last explanation option in this paragraph depends on VS and TR preferring to fight us rather than each other because they're scared of ZOE and Vulcan Harassers, which is the same as our weapons being worse.

To get it straight those 4% are irellevant. If I spawn kill a Max and engie 10x myself or 2 people do it 5x each in a row, till they respawn at a safe location and stop accepting the pointless rezz/rezz nade from the exp farming medic next to them. It doesn't make a difference in the battle.
Yet that's where most of the PPA/Marauder/HEAT prowler "farm" kills come from, killing the same 2-5 guys over and over again. Vanguards, Viper Lightnings and Halberd Harassers accomplish the same but on a lower individual kill rate.

I understand your wage argument but I'm the wrong guy for it. I work for fun, not for money

Those OP Fractures, Strikers, Vulcans, Marauders, Prowlers and Mossies aren't doing us any good it seems.

=/

You all are arguing the numbers. But you failed to answer my question.

How am I getting 2-4 times the KDR when I play non-certed VS/TR characters? Meaning no Nanoweave, no fancy guns (outside alpha squad ones), and no extra secondaries on my ESF, no ZOE or Lockdown on MAX, ect.

Until that can be answered, you're little "oh this little 3% difference isn't much" argument is HOT AIR.

My 1.8 to 2.0 session KDR rises to 2.5-4.5ish by simply not playing NC. My friend who gets 0.4-0.8 KDR (he's not a big FPS shooter), does 1.2-1.8 KDR on VS. An above average vet becomes awesome, and a noob becomes better than average... by not playing NC.

I want to hear you all explain how that is a L2P issue. Oh and before you say its a recoil control problem, our accuracy is higher on NC. So its not that.

I lol'd

This alone still has questions from me? Are you in the same situations between the play sessions? ( as in same fights, same general results?) Are you getting revived more or less on each side? with how the KD mecanics work if your getting revived less as an NC that can have an impact on your KD.

I'm not saying there is a imbalance somewhere, I'm asking what Varaibles have and can be acounted for, because just general experences can't state what the issue really is, and without knowing the issue you can properly fix it without causing even more problems in the long run.

My experences makes me think that oftain it might be a mental issue ( think how there have been people saying that VS only use stuff if its OP, well it cuts both way, if you think your UP then to fight like your UP), but as I said, it is my experence which gives very little to benifit and real balance changes.

Entertaining how many people can look at simple facts and just state that they are not there...