Nanoweave needs to be toned down

To be fair at very long range after you hit someone with a bolt action they have to be extremely bad to not be behind cover before you can shoot again.

I think the semi is better at long range because someone who is not moving you can hit them in the head wait a split second and fire again for a second head shot to kill them as you gun centers right where the first shot happens.

The only problem with semi is it can take like 5 body shots to drop a heavy with shields which is a pain in the ***

At 275m, the only targets you can reliably hit are perfectly stationary targets. And one thing not mentioned is countersniping, and how that is a viable counter if one side is pulling snipers. The notion that long range sniping is of "no danger" to oneself is based off the assumption that your enemy is completely ignorant and is content to let you farm them without countersniping.

Also, at 275m, it is near impossible, and completely impractical to use a suppressor. You really miss the point in that first paragraph. NW is forcing infils with suppressors to close range at about 50m to be effective. Which is pretty much suicide for most infiltrators.

You are ignoring literally every downside and cost that infiltrators already pay to have this ability. 100 less health, loud cloak, scope sway - all built in by the devs to balance our ability to use bolt action rifles... that don't work without being in everyone else's optimal range. These are long range weapons and should work at their intended range.

I realize I can't change your mind. Going to stop now.

So what you're saying is that you're practically useless at 275 m. Sure you can counter snipe, but that's assuming other infiltrators are at that distance. If you're both 275m away from the battle, you're out of infantry render distance from each other, assuming you're on opposite sides of the contested line.

This is the problem with 90% of the players in planetside 2, and video games in general. Rather than figuring out the role you play as an infiltrator sniper, the best range for you to be effective, and utilizing your abilities to the highest potential, you come whining on the forums about how you cannot get ohks past 70m on people wearing nanoweave. You need to adjust your playstyle to the game mechanics or you will be essentially useless.

In regards to whines about getting owned by heavies at 50m - 70m. How do you expect yourself to actually hit moving targets past that range, when you cant even do it consistently where tof + bullet drop are virtually non-existent? If you get killed at that range while chambering another round, why do you stand out in the open as you chamber another round? I don't stand in the open while reloading my mag.

When it comes down to scoping, people expect easy mode kills at risk adverse distance. You have incredibly powerful tools at your disposal, yet you neglect them. Cloaking used properly is insanely difficult to track if you use cover correctly. Toroko doesnt seem to have that big of a problem wrecking with the parallax, why cant you do the same with the rams 0.50?

I would definitely argue that sniper infiltrators have one of the highest if not the highest skill cap in the game. You need to get better at aiming, positioning, and lastly understanding the current role your class plays. Currently, if you want to get ohk's on everyone you need to be at 50-70m. Figure it out and get better. Don't blame the game mechanics because a few people get away.

And how is it viable for players to kill the infiltrator at 275 meters when you can cloak and run away??? They is no way to get a steady stream of bullets at that range to get a kill before you can escape..

You guys want your cake, (Fast reload on weak bolt action, Not showing up on the mini map (silencer))
and eat it to, (long range one shot kills)

I didn't miss the point, If you want to head shot and kill in one shot, You don't get to use the suppressor.

Yes sniper can kill each other, Then change it is so ONLY snipers die to a OSK to the head at long range. That can be a threat to each other.

Maybe if they got creative and came up with some better options people wouldn't use it....

Flak. Definitely Flak. I'm planning to throw Certs on it ASAP(After we learn more about Infiltrator's new stuff), NW just doesn't impress me enough.

seems fine to me needs a buff

cheesus christ. War game that is supposed to be raw, brutal with neverending barrage of bullets, rockets and tank shells and you complain about snipers headshotting people?
10 prowlers blasting everything in sight is brutal and unfair - try to complain and you hear "deal with it, l2p" but squishy sniper killing with a headshot is "mommy give me a passive blocking it because i don't know how to move"

If you think sniper at 275m is unfair, twitch every 3 seconds and he won't hit **** because at that range you have to be pixel perfect and the scope still drifts minimally even with hold breath - he wont manage to correct before his breath runs out. Or pull a sniper for free and own him.
You know what's really unfair? Harrasser out of nowhere with fury or some other splash farm mode **** and some imbavision mounted that nullifies already crappy cloak. That is hopelessness. Some sniper half of map away fishing for your head is a tiny annoyance. I bet my left nut that you get run over by your own teammates 50x more often than you are sniped from 200m. Get some sense of proportion.

Besides stop BSing about sniping beyond 200m. That's not a problem, nobody but greatest noobs play like that and they won't hit a barn either way because they are noobs. If you wish you can prove me wrong. Roll inf with basr, shoot only beyond 200m and show how epic your spm or kills/hr are.

The crux of the issue lies squarely in 30-100m range. By complaining about some marginal cases you do nothing but set up a strawman.

This. Nanoweave 5 is basically 28% to 40%(!!!) increase in TTK. It allows you to survive grenades and mines. That's just a mandatory upgrade for most classes and playstyles, hands down.

That's half the problem. The other half is how useless other armor upgrades are.

Flak? Problem with flak is it only really works against grenades and mines. All other sources of explosive damage in the game are simply so damaging that not even 50% reduction will help you. So when you pick Flak, you get same thing as NW but without the TTK increase...

Ammo pouch is just useless. It just is. Maybe if the game wasn't silly and actually treated mags as whole mags(so when you reload, you lose all your remaining ammo in the mag). It's only ever useful in extreme circumstances as an LA. And even then mostly on the VS side.

Grenade bandolier is also useless, because grenades are useless because they behave like rubber balls.

The shield thing is also a joke, maybe if it halved the timer(or if some classes had more shields than health), but losing 2.5 seconds out of 10 is just completely negligible.

tl;dr NW OP, instead of updating the description to the mechanics they should have updated mechanics to the description(so that it only gives 125 health at NW5 giving you one extra bullet of life, not two)

[Edit] And nobody cares about snipers. Except for snipers. But nobody cares what they think.

Iv'e been playing this game since beta and shooting a moving target isn't the easiest thing to do with a manual weapon. However far from impossible. Iv'e come to the point where I can do it almost all the time that is if the lag isn't killing my fps and I want to give away my defense(element of surprise, and distance). The true problem lies in fact that it take way to long to kill With tier 3 bolt action that 3 shots *2s= 6sec. A person with NW5 can take 3 shots at a long range. That means I have to hit 3 body-shots to kill them, I got 2 chances to mess up. This is for one guy, and half the time they get behind cover before you can even re chamber another round. The problem isn't the skill, its to equipment issued. Now if they gave us extend mag, and better ROF then TTK will be better, but whats the point of it being a bolt action in that case? You think one class complains because things seem fair? A complaint is a sign of unfairness or neglect. When I play heavy I have nothing to complain about, same with l.a, engineer, and medic, I find myself saying wow this is op. Only thing I fill is lacking in development is the infiltrator class. And that's probably why it's 1st on the list for a revamp.

mpal, don't you play on Mattherson? I'm arguing that the current mechanics are wrong, and should be changed. I'm arguing that instead of increasing your survivability as intended with NW, it additionally confers the benefit of completely negating an entire class of weapons and players. A simple solution is increasing the headshot multiplier for bolt actions, which don't change falloff, or give any benefit to missing the headshot.

As I said earlier in this thread, my playstyle is pretty much the direct counter to nanoweave. The way I have been playing all along, is one of the only remaining viable ways to play infiltrator with a bolt action. I'm very good at it, and do not need your advice on how to improve. You are welcome to look me up. Or ask Sturmgrenadier if I was having any trouble killing them this afternoon.

Since you cite torokokill, I can point you to his twitter account, where he also agrees that nanoweave has made his performance suffer, mostly due to players then injecting medkits and surviving multiple follow up bodyshots. Both of us still crush it on the field, but recognize that the mechanics are broken and very sharply bent against infiltrators.

“@torokokill: @mhigby @planetside2 Play between bolt action rifles and nanoweave. Needing 4+ body shots to kill people with a heal or shield sucks.”

There is nothing about playing infiltrator well, that is risk-averse EZ mode. Pretty much every dedicated infiltrator in this game has had to overcome bug after bug, patch after patch that benefits other classes, and continues to marginalize the infiltrator. The only thing that SOE has given us since release were SMG's and the wraith cloak. In the process, they've taken away our ability to use the signature primary weapon, the bolt action rifle, to it's intended effect. That is what I'm trying to change.

Yes I play on Mattherson. I will concede that the fall off should be increased, but I do not think making it such that a OHK is achievable at any range within render distance is a good thing. It will only increase the number of snipers who don't do anything aside from sit off at 200m+ hitting 30% of their shots on a good day.

I dont think anyone has a problem killing sg.

I cited torokokill as a guy that plays scope infiltrator at a very high level. While he obvious doesnt like the current mechanics, he does pretty damn well for himself despite the draw backs; he clearly has adjusted his gameplay to an extent. On the med kit thing, they are burning 75 infantry resources. Considering how sparse they are now that maxes are 350 inf resources, you are doing some considerable damage to them. Sure you may not get the kill that time around, but if he burns it like that he will have one less when he has to hold the point with no medics around. What do you know, you were actually useful.

Playing the infiltrator well is pretty key to my whole argument. For one you arent playing the infiltrator well at 200m+ unless you are hunting enemy snipers. NW does not come into effect at this range against other infiltrators, to my knowledge. I could be wrong on this point. It makes sense that there are game mechanics that discourage this type of gameplay against regular infantry tho (see nanoweave 5). My whole argument was that it is equally risky with an edge towards the sniper infiltrator at 50-70m. The whole point was, why do you need near immunity against infantry at 150m+ when you could barely hit said infantry at easier-to-hit distances. When I say "you" I mean plural as in all snipers that are constantly whining about NW and make up exaggerations about how fast "LR" lmgs/ARs can kill them.

I run Nanoweave because there are too many damn snipers in this game. You may not get that kill when you head shot me but the other 5 snipers shooting at me certainly will.

There are so many damn snipers in this game you cant even properly shoot from behind cover. There are so many damn snipers in this game that you have to constantly ADAD and infinite sprint. There are so many damn snipers in this game you have to ADAD while behind cover.

Snipers have always been the ***** class in every FPS. Rarely do they ever contribute. Mostly all they do is camp. All they do is make things annoying and **** up a good fire fight between cover for all the other players.

Mustarde is #8 on Mattherson FYI and they owned each other many many times.
The problem is that the neverending adjusting for the bugs, and nerftastic interactions gets old really really fast. It took infs few months to figure out how to utilize crappy cloak 'efficiently' (crappy because very far from invisibility, short, ungodly noisy) and now we have to fight against our own primary weapon sliding into obsolescence.

It does, NW5 on INF is equivalent to NW2 on other classes, though not many infs at the moment have NW5. For cert starved class with crappy xp gains that has 1860c motion scanner tool 1000c is a luxury, especially when in countersniping you get 0 effect for the first 4 levels. There is a google spreadsheet somewhere with recent statistics of classes/weapons where the gains at top BRs were something like this (iirc, should be xp/hr)
MAX ~20k
HA ~18k
ENG ~18k
CM ~17k
LA ~15k
INF ~12k.

Nanoweave doesn't discourage ****. It's a plain hp buff as advertised, nothing less, nothing more. Show me where it says explicitly that the perk is a convenient hard counter to sniper headshots.
The game certainly doesn't discourage lockon alpha strikes at 500m, AV turrets at 700m, why would it specifically discourage snipers beyond 100m?

fast forward to the end to the moment of death. Ignoring finishing lasher to the kidneys - it looks like solid 100m to me and despite 3/4 cover these lazorz vaporized the shield and cut into HP in an instant. Yep, i'd call that owning pretty hard. If that's how inf's "error" ends at 100m, how would it look at 75 or 50?

Mpal, what are your stats? Do you have a link to your profile?

The reason I ask is because you sound like someone who has little experience playing Infiltrator, and FPS games in general for that matter. If you have a problem with frequently getting headshotted by Infiltrators, you're probably a trash player who isn't equipped to discuss high-skill game balance issues.

The very fact that you think Im trash without ever playing against me says a lot about your skill level. Just any FYI, I've played cod1,2 and blops competitively. CS 1.6, and CSGO competitively.

https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428035526964751777
https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428072203513111185
https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428077650427123953

Later kid

Its not that I dont like getting HS'd by infils. In fact it rarely happens at ranges greater than 70m, I just dont want squads of infiltrators doing absolutely nothing aside from sitting on a hill 200m+ from the battle. The very fact that NW discourages this type of gameplay makes me all giddy inside.

I have plenty of experience killing infiltrators by hunting them down, doing absolutely nothing for their team aside from being a random annoyance. Ive come across nests of 6+ NC low BR snipers, doing absolutely nothing for their team. They would have been better as meat shield HAs or engies or medics.

#8 based off exp, while getting an exp boost. Cool story bro, thanks for sharing.

Learn2cloak bro. Theres a guy in my outfit that rarely, if ever plays infil, and he knows how to utilize cloak in ******* cqc. I literally lose him all the time w/ 1x red dot in bios.

Most of that lost exp is simply due to sitting way the **** back doing absolutely nothing. If you were actually doing something besides waiting for one guy to stand still at 100m+ you'd get more exp. Lastly speaking, how the hell are you correlating NW with a massive disparity in exp/hour? There are way, way more factors at play than NW. I really hope you aren't studying statistics.

Tell me where on the suit slot info it says it gives you a slight edge against other infantry who don't have nano 5? It doesnt say that, but you can draw that conclusion from being logical.

Lock on alpha strikes, seriously bro? Tell me what lock on alphas anything aside from a flash at 500m. I'd love to hear this. AV turrets against infantry is silly, I completely agree. AV mechanics and their range is a completely different topic all together.

Because those "lazorz" are charged lancers. Lancers have zero starting cof, if you rapid fire a single shot you will have cof/accuracy issues at range, but not when you take the time to charge. They hit those shots because he was standing still. Truth is, you cant be surprised when you sit in the same spot and people start to catch on. Especially considering he missed more than a few shots with them looking towards him. Lastly, when you get killed by a sniper you can see briefly the direction of the shot that killed you. I would definitely say he had a lapse of judgment during that kill streak as to when to move. Sure he missed out on a few kills because of NW, but he still effectively made them stop shooting their AV turrets/lancers at the armor at IBP. Lastly, that is one example of him dying in that way. Im sure, and if he is as good as he claims he is, he has gotten himself out of that situation more than a few times or had the foresight not to stay in the same spot the whole time.

The point that Ive been, poorly, trying to make this whole time is that you need to look at your own gameplay. You need to figure out what you did wrong and continue to do wrong, then correct those mistakes to improve. You can't come to the forums and whine about everything that seems like a small obstacle. Do you find yourself extremely frustrated at NW? Get closer and adjust your gameplay + loadouts accordingly. You will die more adjusting, but you will get the hang of it. If the devs think bolt actions need more effective range against NW, they will adjust. Until then, either find another game that you enjoy, adjust your play style + get better, or continue whining doing the same wrong thing you've always been doing/getting rolled.

The best players in this game all know that they can improve and continually try to do so. You will not get better if you blame every death on one or 2 game mechanics that makes your class or that specific fight less to your advantage.

And why should everybody else be punished because your "playstyle" is cowardly camping a rock well outside effective range of your victim weapons, without any way of retaliation?
And you want OHK vs everything on top of that. GG.

Whenever I run sniper I still OHK kill from 100m+ range on most targets. Those I don't will often be assists a few seconds later. Sniping is more about providing cover fire than insta-killing all that you see before you. However, I completely agree that the Infil class itself needs a revamp/more stuff to do.

Nanoweave - Bump to Health and thus lets you resist just about everything a bit more. Use this on my medic since I can regenerate this extra health. Otherwise, it'll help on ONE encounter if you're not restoring health. Next one will kill you. Best combined with med kits and friendly medics.

Flak - Crazy-awesome vs explosions, no help elsewhere. Rushed to get this for my engineer, as things you're repairing are usually surrounded by/are exploding. Saves me from so many prox mines and grenades, as well.

Shield Regen - Good for anyone who moves a lot. I love it for LA since I'm constantly moving in and out of fire fights. Having half your shields recharged when you would have none is great. Also use it on my Infil since trying to shoot while shields are down is a great way to die. Lets me resume fire quicker.

Ammo - Can be useful on LA or Infil as you may be far away from allies for a while. Generally not needed in squads/platoons.

Grenade - Useful for specialty grenades, such as smoke and flash. If you're certing those grenades, might as well have more to play with. I'd pass for standard grenade builds.

Munitions Pouch - More rockets, C4, mines, etc.Good if you want to kill multiple vehicles in a single life. Fine this rather lackluster.

Adrenaline Pump - LA only. Use this on a single long-range build as I'm often covering long distances. Otherwise not that helpful, but it is a cheap cert.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Why should we be punished because you want to stand a mile away and kill people with 1 shot?

A coin always has two sides.

Nests of AV campers on the other hand are just peachy, but their supposed counter has to be worthless so people can be free to farm tanks unmolested at 5x there range for 1000xp a pop, got it.

wtf are you on? torokokill is #3 58k+ kills, Mustarde is#8 50k+. Besides to be in top100, much less 10 you got to know your ****.

.... while every other dude rolls with low settings with shadows disabled and **** and sees him plain as day, of which inf has no idea.

i am not correlating, i am pointing out that INF class SUXX badly and doesn't deserve additional nerfs which is what the NW issue is.
found it
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdF8zNU9kci1ieFhyUlU3UW5zeUFzeHc&gid=33

do you accuse high BR infs of doing the same worthless camping? Because they are still trailing hard.
What about the fact that infs are limited to a third of targets (tanks/air/maxes out) while the mech xp is very nutricious, all while having next to no access to reliable support xp? Infantry kills are the only reliable source of xp, end of story.
Just recently we got 10xp for a dart costing 1860c to max, while engineers are rewarded with tons of repair xp every time someone scratches paint on their tank.

all else being equal more hp is more hp.
immunity to headshots is a unintended consequence of numbers pulled out of the devs' ***. And really how do you draw that conclusion when devs don't know their own game? NW took few months to 'fix' (where the fix is the change of description to legitimize the bug) and it was infs who recognized something is fishy with it in the first place.
What about top tier bolt actions being advertised in official SOE texts as 'kills are sure to roll in as soon as you can keep your aim true'? It sounds stronger (because it shows actual intent) than some supposedly logical conclusion of some numbers.
Either way sorry, i don't trust devs at all. They don't know what they are doing which they have shown time and time again.

ok 300, fine? still 5x better. This is not completely different topic altogether because it's a puzzle of combined arms. How else do you plan to counter AV camp of HAs and ENGs with few maxes for air denial? The only realistic counter is SNIPER. Sometimes you have to blast people from behind that rock 100m away. What then? Tickle them a bit and maybe just maybe they will stop owning allies?

Who will 'pay' inf for the 5 minute downtime that is required to get through the enemy platoon to get in the killing range? Every 10m meters you demand from inf costs him exponentially more effort.... all while he tries to counter 1. press button to spawn av turret, 2. wait few seconds 3 ??? 4. profit.

tell me what you did to adjust to nanoweave. Oh yeah, nothing. You blast the guy as you always did but it takes 2 more bullets from the neverending lmg mag for +0.2s TTK.