The NC6 Gauss SAW, T9 CARV and the Orion - Replacing myth with facts

Short and simple, the Gaus SAW is a Full auto battle rifle with a 200 round clip pretending to be a LMG.

And it fails at that, everything a Gaus SAW is good at can be done better with an acctuall battle rifle, heck, battle rifles got higher ROF and better on the move Accuracy...
Meanwhile the SAW has to much Bloom and to low ROF to be competitive in CQC and mid range against other LMGs and is absolutely useless in hipfire ranges.

Yes, it can be accurate and yes, it has the highest damage per shot.
But outside of very specific situations and ranges almost every other weapon choice will suit you better.

Most CQC weapons are capable of landing more hits much more quickly and despite their Damage per Shot disadvantage can still keep up in TTK at ranges up to 80m while still being much more competitive and much more usable in CQC


There are three kind of lies... Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.

The OP used the third one combined with his own Bias to make it seem as if the Gaus SAW is the best weapon.

The only issue is analysis of statistics. And the man who said that quote lived in the forest by himself because he thought it was noble and that he was being virtuous by being away from the virulent masses while he spewed such on them, AND he burned down 200 acres of forest.

See how bad conjecture can be?

As I've pointed out, to any logical person, properly analyzed statistics always invariably beat empirical evidence.
Logic and statistics are evidences in themselves, and damn strong ones.

Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.

You don't know what's the difference of Aim Blossom, THAT is the "pattern that alternates between left and right", and horizontal recoil. the recoil that makes the aim, not the random shoots, go to left or right when shooting.

Horizontal recoil CAN be compesate like vertical recoil.

If you paied attention in the video i do burst of 2 shoots and wait until the aim settle down.(aside the first shoot with SAW that i purposely did only one shoot to show that i'm hitting the enemy)

When you shoot a burst and don't wait until the aim settle it will get Aim blossom WHAT YOU CAN'T Compensate.

The video showed that Higher damage = Higher time to settle back.

In the mean time the bigger recoil of the SAW takes more time to the aim settle back.

While you can argue that i should have compensated the shoot for the SAW i could have done the same for GD-7F and instead of shooting 2 bullets i could have placed 5 in the enemy.

If you want to throw "but a pro could have done xxxx" in the topic i will say that a pro CAN kill a target at 100 meters with a clip of one pistol, not revolver, only doing HS.

By the way, the "Data" that you defend so much never takes player skill in the account.

PS: Statistics are evidences for who knows how to interpret it.
Since Sony, who have ppl who are PAID to interpret THESE statiscs still didn't get it right, say HI to the balanced game we have right now, i don't think you, who have acces to just a portion of the statiscs and, until where i know, don't receive a coin neither use your time to ACTUALLY interpret it know.
You are just using the "Data" the way it works better to you, not how it "should" be used.

At least he provided numbers. Numbers does not equal statistics of the type meant in the above quote. You provided nothing. OP is absolutely right.

His numbers are meaningless without a large sample of live combata statistics gatherd with all weapons at all ranges with people competent with all said weapons.

His numbers are useful in a vacuum and we can extrapolate a lot of data from it, but it's reallity we're dealing with, not a perfect testing scenario.

and I bet if said testing was to be done one would find that the Gaus SAW overal doesn't perfom much better or equall and maybe worse then the other default LMGs.

Full agreed with this post and well put together. The Saw is great at longer range, but it suffers at CQC and suffers against allot of other LMG's medium range. I don't understand why allot of TR are making out the SAW is by far the best LMG, when it's not, by a long shot, there needs to be no changes between them here, but if there was to the T9 it would have to be nerfed at CQC and buffed longer range, as it's already better than the SAW at CQC and can out do it mostly at medium range.

ITT: NC who actually play NC, correctly identify which the best NC LMG and a bunch of other people who don't play NC.

Pro tip: The best NC LMG isn't the Gauss Saw.

Left and Right random recoil is self compensating you just have to aim for center and trust the RNG.

I thought that was the reason T50 was better Carv because T50 was random recoil while Carv has a direction bias?

I have learned from years of experience not to trust all game developers with weapon balance, nor their honesty in even wanting to correct a mistake, nor that they even have a job devoted to this, which I'm actually willing to bet they do. I really have little faith in them unless they release their conferences and interpretation to me, and that I can discern they are correct. Right now YOU are going off LARGE amounts of blind faith.

If SOE actually released that analysis, they would be the best company ever to me for their willingness to inform the playerbase.

I'm actually starting to think that GamerOS is trolling. I've never heard of a thing called "Aim Blossom", and the constant misspelling makes me question his sincerity.

There is a lot of "I've been killed by the Carv therefor it is good" going on in this thread.

Here's the facts. Every single TR will tell you the Carv is garbage. The statistical data on every spreadsheet around also blatantly points out the Carv is garbage. OP's thoughtful and articulate post backed up by in game numbers says the Carv is garbage.

Anyone claiming that the Carv is a viable option in any situation is an idiot. Shotguns will always outclass a LMG in cqc and the TMG-50 reigns supreme in any other instance.

I have Auraxium with the Carv, Carv-S and the TMG-50 and I challenge anyone else to do the same before making assumptions not based in reality.

Please show us those statistics that the Carv is garbage, because all the stats and facts show otherwise, that the T9 is better than the SAW at CQC and debatable if it's better at medium range (Only not as good longer range)

CQC at its extreme may be the realm of shotguns, but i find Shotguns for general use very lacking. I can't just leave the room and still fight. I'm basically defenseless to anything past 20m. And that is not a rare thing to happen. LMG are versatile. With the close range LMG for NCm, Anchor, i can still engage targets out to 80-100m (many people dont want to believe it that its possible to do that) good enough to be a threat. Many underestimate the "fire for effect" side. They want to kill, and if half of their shots are missing they think "oh this is a waste of time" while its not. People are too conservant with their ammo sometimes. If there is an engineer in the vicinity, spam away. Thats what LMG are best for. Putting a large volume of fire down range.
With the Kobalt on my Flash or Vanguard i often fire next to cover enemies are behind, so that they get anxious to stick their head out which allows others to flank them/get closer.
With a closerange LMG i can outplay SMG and Shotguns if i play well. They are way more versatile then those. And NC dont even have the ones with the most dps.

All I can say is that I've learned from years that players themselves are not to be trusted outside of making the actual spreadsheets.
Because almost every player is slightly or full blown biased to wards something.

The faceless mooks at SOE might not have my trust either, but at least from them I can fully expect some professional integrity when it comes down to it.

And with blossom I mean CoF growth, or what ever you might call it.
Funny that you call me a troll because I disagree with you, dismiss me and attack a straw men while being cheered on by yes men instead if that's your wish.
I couldn't care less, all I know is that I disagree with your findings because my interpretation of the stats combined with my experience in the game leads me to different conclusions.

CoF growth does not affect horizontal recoil. The events are independent, one does not affect the other.
CoF is a random circle that is permanently attached to the sights, or the line from your gun to the enemy, the sights are affected by horizontal recoil. CoF does not increase recoil, CoF is a cone that your bullets will fall in. The weapons in this game are not true to the sights unlike CoD, they are like Battlefield in that they have a completely separate cone that extends from the point where your gun is aiming. Where your gun is aiming is not affected by CoF, where the bullets go is.

Sorry I ment the horizontal difference between the Carv and the SAW is hardly noticeable ( 0.050 difference )

But anyhow for testing and fair purposes I made an alt and tried it .. Both in VR and in game ..

Standing/ADS/x4 scope :

Up to 195m it's highly accurate with single shot taps , past 195m up to 200m it starts to become less accurate but was still hitting 9 out of 12 shots.

3 shot bursts work well up to 85m , between 85 > 100 it's better with a 2 shot burst, the CoF takes effect to much if try for more.

Below 50m is where it stands out .. It is lethal full auto or burst .. And CQC hip fire is fast and accurate.

My overall feelings for the gun ?

Short reload is to long .. Needs dropping from 5.4 to 4.5
It's damage drop off should be reduced a touch from 125 @65 to 135 @ 65m
Increase it's ammo pool from 300 to 400

But apart from that ingame I found it a good gun ( for my play style )

How I normally play with just Iron sights I would take it over the SAW any day

The Gun stats say its garbage for medium and long range combat. CQC is for my shotgun and everyone else's shotgun. Player stats such as score per hour and kill/deaths mean nothing for default weapons as every noob starts with them and runs around useless with them bringing the stats down in some areas and up in other areas. Here are some valid examples.

a) If your starter gun is better at CQC but bad at ranges outside of that then noobs will do better in general with it as they learn the game as most fights are CQC. (until they buy a shotgun/SMG/LMG/Rifle) This brings the over all score of a default weapon up.

b) If your starter gun is weaker in CQC then the noobs won't do so well with it till they cert into options that increase its CQC strength. This means the weapon will have a lower score even if that weapon is one of the best medium to long range weapons in the game with the best cert options. (or only requires 200-300 certs to become one of the best LMG's)

c) All that matters for score per hour on default weapons is their CQC ability. The problem is that Shotguns and to a lesser extent SMG's rule CQC. This means any player who knows to buy a shotgun with his first 1000 certs is taking out both of them players. This reduces the score of the default weapons even more making them look a lot weaker then they are in all aspects.

d) A certain faction does worse then the other two factions using exactly the same guns. (We are not talking 0.9 difference)

The above is just a few of the many factors that make judging any gun by player statistics flawed. The only stats that can be counted on is the guns stats themselves and their attachments.

For the most part the only players who care about medium and long range combat stats are min/maxers who want the very best weapon for each situation. You know? The guys here leaving walls of text saying why X TR weapons are not as accurate at range?(which is true and matters for ranged combat) We want a TR LMG that is great for ranged combat even if its bad in CQC. The TMG-50 isn't up to that spec.

However COF growth can't be compensated for with attachments or aim adjustments (all attachments decrease starting CoF but keep growth the same.(not to mention the statement had to do with the CoF growing to big to quickly in CQC so what does it have to do with recoil ADS?))
The large growth of COF on the Gaus SAW means it needs to stop firing quicker at even shorter ranges then other LMGs to reset the CoF.

It might not have strong horizontal recoil and easily controlled upwards recoil, but that doesn't stop the bullets from missing the enemy by half the screen at 100m+ after 2 bullets, if the 2nd bullet already hits due to the high first shot recoil.

The problem here is that the huge first shot recoil will most likely throw of your second shot when shooting at range and by the third/fourth shot the COF has become to big already.
Waiting for the COF to shrink again takes longer then it takes to fire a second round on most other guns.

By the time the Gaus SAW has fired, settled from the shot and can fire again most other LMGs will have all ready shot multiple times and quite likely hit multiple times already.

All in all, yes the Gaus SAW is the most accurate at it's first shot and yes it does the most damage per bullet, but its handling is never good enough to make use of this outside of single shot or ranges where you can kill people in a single burst without missing a shot, ranges where the other LMGs can often already do that from the hip... while on the move.


Personally as a HA I kind of like the gun, despite it's shortcomings, but for general purpose other LMGs are much more viable, and for single shot long range the Battle rifle is preferable.

source


Edit: Oops, I cut off the word "Ironsights" in the main title.

Well gues i've used the wrong term. Maybe Weapon bloom makes more sense.
If you don't know what's that in a short explanation.
After you shoot for some time the bullets begin to hit farther and farther of the center of the aim.

For what i've seen Planetside2 use the recoil, or at least proportional to determine the increase of the bloom.

While the recoil itself can be controled by the player the aim bloom can't.

Since PS2 use the recoil to increase the bloom this mean bigger recoil per bullet = bigger bloom in less bullets.

The SAW has a bloom that "controlled fire" allow 3 bullets without it taking effect in your aim, in the mean time the GD-7F has a bloom of 6 bullets, for what i've seen, maybe more.
167*3 = 501
100*6 = 600

And remember the time it takes for the aim settle down so you can use another burst? yeah the GD has a faster recovery on that this means he use burst more often.

I can't post the a video showing that because these 10 secs videos took 10 minutes to upload, yes my upload rate is a ****.

But try it yourself:
Take a hard hitting weapon equip a 4x on it and go full auto, pay attention how the bullets begin to fly at random places at your screen. Mark how many bullets you have used before it happens
Take a SMG, since it has less recoil per bullet, equip a 4x do that again and watch the difference.

PS: CoF Growth is another name too.

After testing All the LMG's my biggest issue is not that the Carv is crap, It's far from it but what ever TR LMG I used it was like firing the same weapon .
There doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference in how they perform, maybe because they all look and sound the same I dunno ..

IMO the problem is that while the Carv is a good weapon TR suffer from lack of variety in their LMG's ..

So yeah maybe increase the TMG's dmg and decrease it's RoF just for the simple reason of giving more options (and god make it look and sound different )