The NC faction get access to scattercannons and many variants thereof (the most hated being the hacksaw) These weapons, individually are as effective as a single infantry shotgun, combining two gives you more range and some wiggle room, it also lets you utterly devastate another MAX without reloading. All MAXes have extended Magazines available to them, however there shouldn't really be an argument that this benefits shotgun type weapons the most, I mean they're already inaccurate and have small clips, so it's the natural choice. Second all MAXes have one ability: charge, the synergy between charge and shotguns is enough to turn any infantryman green with envy, since it allows you to either A: get into CQC with your target or B: run away while reloading. I'm not saying it's worthless on TR/VS, but you can clearly see that it's favoring NC. Finally you get access to slug rounds, sacrificing some CQC for the ability to engage targets at 50 meters, if you don't believe that then here's a video and qoute from a NC player: Okay fine this is something we all know, NC faction get fully functional shotguns and they're really good at locking indoor areas down and such, so VS/TR are better outdoors and have more utility... right?.. Right? Oh snap TR/VS receive a cycler/quasar, which individually are way worse than a single carbine (just with a bigger clip) when you compare these to a LMG, then their fire rate is about 50-60% lower, with the LMG doing the same damage per shot. When you combine two of these weapons you get a crummy LMG, your fire rate is still poor (just about a single LMG when combined, individually they fire only slightly faster than a freaking shotgun) HOWEVER.. Here's the big bugbear: Unlike the NC who recieve ALL the tools for their completely ungimped shotguns, TR and VS receive: that's right, they do not receive the utility of a LMG or just a humble carbine. There is no possibility to iron sight, no forward grip, no laser dot, no scopes.. On top of that you get half the fire rate. What The F- So please enlighten me, why is it that NC should receive two fully operational shotguns with all the toys (I mean the only thing missing, is a scope for their slugs..) and have all the upgrades in their favor. While TR/VS get to play around with some ABSOLUTE TRIPE. when taking both your heavy weapons.. and replacing them with red-dot pistols makes you Significantly better, you know something has gone terribly wrong. I would personally take a single, forward grip LMG over these two things. And even then I'm just a HA with more health and no rocket launcher, self heal or a panic weapon if I'm reloading(pistol), while NC get to be two shotgun heavy assaults, with charge... By the way, I realize full and well how OP it would be if TR/VS got access to 2 fully functional LMG's with ironsight (I mean.. Imagine a TR MAX that had 2 Carvs, aiming for your FACE) Which is why either A: Nerf scattermaxes in general B: Nerf scattermax damage against other maxes C: Buff TR/VS and nerf NC until they meet in the middle. D: give TR/VS comparable weapons (two fully functional LMG's with iron sight and upgrades), then watch the forums be set on fire, as everyone whine about said MAXes breaking absolutely everything. Also just before any VS decide to embarrass themselves, our cosmos are as good if not in fact better than mercies, you get the same accuracy, only with the added bonus of a bigger clip and faster reload. DPS wise they're also pretty identical, we do slightly more dmg per bullet, they shoot slightly faster. If you do 5-6 shot bursts, those things will absolutely murder infantry. As an added bonus our MAXes are also sneaky stealth assasins unlike TR/NC (no footstep noise) and they're the smallest MAX, therefor has the smallest hitbox.
My outfit went against one camping a hack in a biolab. We both charged in with maxes and unloaded on him and he basically one hit the first max and then charged my max as I was trying to distance myself. It's just so effective in close combat that we have no counter to it. That's basically what I'd be for. If they had to reload when fighting another max it wouldn't feel as cheap.
Only one toy that I can think of, and that's the slug, which as you say, sacrifices CQC for range. Scattermax is great 1v1 up close, you're absolutely right. It's utterly devastating in that role. Takes an eon to reload mind, and - well, my max might be bugged - but once I've used the charge to get in nice and close (and hopefully not overshoot the target), it seems I can't use it again to run away whilst I'm reloading (which seems to happen very quickly with both scatter and hacksaw) I find I'm a sitting duck Is it better than the VS/TR equivalents at short range? Yes - I'd probably agree with you. Best nerf it quick!
My you dodged that question well... Please show me more of how you try and divert attention away from the facts stated in the OP. Maybe next time you would care to read the post, instead of just assuming that I'm just whining about them killing other MAXes in close range. I personally do not care that the NC faction is the only one that get shotgun MAXes... I care about the fact that they get 2 fully functional weapons, TR/VS do not. As for toys, as I stated in the OP Extended Magazine buffs a NC MAX significantly more than a TR/VS, because shotguns type weapons benefit the most from it. I would personally prefer option C: Nerf the NC by 25%, buff TR/VS by 25%, add red dot and call it a day, they'd still win CQC, but not as hard. Such a change would put both at roughly 75% weapon effectiveness. (still no iron sight tho :-/)
VS boy talking about NC being imbalanced? What a joke... TR/VS get fully functional LMGs (lol Orion). NC do not. TR/VS get fully functional ESFs. NC get a flying brick. VS gets a strafing UFO tank with an armor piercing laser that can climb any surface. NC get a slowmo brick. Granted, THIS brick is a bit more durable upfront (unlike the ESF which is a paper brick). Now stop whining about perhaps the only "good" thing about the NC (which is also situationally good at best).
The NC Max balances out the weakness of other NC weapons in CQB. If you want to nerf the NC MAX you're going to have to buff the rest of our infantry weapons. And then there'll be more crying.
a) Stop calling Scatter gun MAXs OP. Scatter gun itself isn't OP, if you're hating on hacksaws, say that. That being said, I think in terms of sustained DPS, it's safe to say that the TR and VS AI weapons deal much more consistent dmg against infantry at medium range, especially when larger numbers are present. 1v1 Hack saw destroys everything, but 5v5 I'd rather have dual Mercies or Blueshifts. Additionally, the TR's AV weapons is much better against infantry than the Falcons. And the VS AV is better at long range. They're just different. In terms of suppressing infantry, the TR MAX is the best, you can kill dozens of infantry between reloads. With the NC you're always juggling reload and risk being defenseless if someone comes around the corner, or keeping 1/2 a mag, and running out of ammo without killiing the enemy. Additionally, the medium range means that TR / VS ai weapons work against ESFs.
BWAHAHAHA well that's a laugh... I'd take the Gauss SAW over the Orion every day of the week, that thing comes with compensator and advanced foregrip, insane damage per bullet AND a 100 ammo clip. Again, typical NC, cannot answer the question and as such tries to divert the attention to something else. None of your examples are a 100% deference in effectiveness. You get 2 fully functional shotguns with the only upgrade that matter, we get 2 halves of a LMG with no upgrades available. Fun fact: NC ESF have the best afterburner speed of all 3 factions.
150 for each Scatter. Thats 300 certs into 2 shotguns to make it any use at range. That max took over 1 reload to kill the other max. Are you going to say that you can going to STAND THERE and take 1 and a bit mags from a MAX at range? Move around a bit shoot back. The video you posted isn't a true representation as the other MAX wasn't shooting back. I can show you any weapon is OP when you got a stationary target that isn't responding to getting shot. Try it against the Cycler and the Quasar and maybe then you have a stance? Shotguns only intagib a max if they are within 10m. Should I say the MAG is OP cause its got a laser of death thats impossible to see? and that it can do something my tank cannot? Guess what you see a NC MAX charging towards you? CHARGE AWAY FROM IT. I never see any NC MAX in anything but bases other then using Bursters. I do see VS and TR maxes out in the fields with their infranty. I tell you what. You get can shotguns if you want. But I want a strafing tank and a LMG/Carbine strapped to my MAX to be useful in anything more then Bases or being a Burster. OH I also want shorter reload times. Can't be fair that you reload on 0.5 secs quicker then me can it. Shotguns are Shotguns, close range. Shotguns with Slugs don't instagib at close range and a DC TR MAX with no upgrades can beat a Dual Hacksaw with Extended Mags (500 per arm) at 10m. If you added slugs (150 per arm) that 650 certs PER ARM meaning 1300 certs for BOTH ARMS including then cost for the Hacksaw (asume no SC) is 1k certs each. that 3.3k certs for dual hacksaws with extended mags with slugs. Only then are they very good beyond 10m. So you want a NC MAX to spend 3.3k (or 1.3k) certs into 2 guns and them to STILL DIE to a DC max which costs 1k certs for the 2nd. And Mercies are better then the Cycler at the NC MAXs "optimum" only costs 2k. Which is less then then NC with ****** Hacksaws and will still give them a pounding if they are at range. And the Mercies will EASILY beat a NC max beyond 10m. The one thing I will agree with is that the VS max is gimped as they don't have as good CQC weapons for the MAX as TR or NC. But thats a VS Max problem. Not a shotgun problem. OH before this "But we can only play to the strength of the NC MAX", thats how I feel with a Magrider. DEAL WITH IT. Trying to get in close to a Magrider is like trying to get away from a NC MAX. Pray they don't see you first. Fun Fact : Magrider can go over bumps with a smaller "bump" in the aiming. Making is the Best Sniper Another Fun Fact : NC ESF Has the biggest Hitbox Yet Another Fun Fact : Its called Asymmetrical Balance, you know so that we DON'T get the same thing. If you can't beat them, join them.
So you get to chose between a killing an enemy MAX in 2 seconds at up to 5 m, or in 6.5 seconds at up to 50 m. In both cases, you get a tiny magazine capacity, long reload time, and if you do chose to use slugs, you **** your damage at the 5-10 m range. Stop complaining about our MAX's.
Congratulations on presenting answers to questions not asked (and answers that have already been rebuked in other threads) Also I pity anyone using blueshifts (shows how much you know about TR/VS.. The accurate gun for VS is Cosmos, the blueshift is the least accurate of all full automatic MAX weapons with a tiny clip size, the stock quasar is better than this thing) 'they work against ESF'... XD.. Oh you're a joker! Yeah if they hover just above you maybe you can annoy them enough to move slightly.. you've still only got the effective damage of a SINGLE LMG but with much worse aim. You still fail to answer the only and most important question: WHY, should NC receive 2 fully functional shotguns, while TR/VS do NOT receive 2 fully functional.. well, any guns.. they receive 2 halves of a LMG to combine into one, which they then (unlike the shotguns) can't really upgrade, not to mention having the utility in iron sight stripped from it as well.
Awesome, he can crouch and shoot an LMG from a stationary position. Now try using that gun in close quarters whilst hipfiring...
Fun fact theres a whole other thread about that, guess what: at 30 meters the TTK for a TR/VS is longer than what a NC slug ammo MAX has at 50 meters, 'superior range indeed'. first of all: not really relevant to the topic, second that doesn't really get me the point/generator I'm fighting over now does it? But: I don't want shotguns for TR/VS.. yes shotguns are shotguns.. Did I say anything else?.. no?... Did I point out that you get 2 fully functional shotguns with all the upgrades that matter, while TR/VS receive 2 halves of a gun with none of the upgrades that matter and none of the utility? YES also 'but slugs don't work in CQC' well then it's lucky for you that you can reequip at any terminal to change back and forth depending on the situation then isn't it? NC can directly impact their killing power and engagement range, for 1000 certs? yes.. Can VS/TR do the same if they had 1000 certs to spend? no?.. well I guess that point is sorta moot then.
you have scattermaxes (best infantry CQC in the game) and one of the best medium-long range engagement LMG's, how much more does it need to be served for you on a plate? also since he didn't move enough last time here he's a bit more mobile, bunny hoping around and killing people. Hipfire does not play to the weapons strength, the thing has an advance forward grip and compensator , it's a ironsight weapon, if you want hip fire, take a shotgun.
Exactly where did he 'bunny hop around' and kill people? I saw him sitting behind cover gunning down people coming up a jump pad. That was about it. Nothing he did there couldn't've been done with a stock VS or TR LMG. Using an exceptional player who clearly scores a lot of headshots to compare weapons is like putting a $30 tennis racquet in Roger Federer's hands and putting him up against an amatuer with a $200 tennis racquet and coming to the conclusion that the $30 tennis racquet is better. And if you want to talk about hipfiring not playing to a weapons strengths, why is it that TR and VS get to hipfire their guns at ridiculous ranges whilst NC has to ADS and suffer a movement speed loss? Back to the issue at hand, which is NC MAXs, why is it unacceptable for us to have a 'better' MAX (which is still a subject for debate), whereas its completely acceptable for VS to have strafing tanks which can navigate just about any terrain whilst barely affecting their aim?
So basically we should only be slightly better in CQC and way worse at every other range? Woah, you're an expert on balance. Let me guess, magrider, scythe, orion etc are all balanced to their NC counterparts? Newsflash: Buffs and nerfs won't make you any better, you'll still get wrecked and cry for even more buffs. Edit: And he was only shot at a few times. Every weapon is capable of killing bad players completely oblivious to what is going on around them. It's funny how these videos were always dismissed when NC players made videos of themselves playing with Orions and Carvs, but now they work as evidence that NC LMGs are balanced.
I'm sorry but there is no way either a Scatter or Hacksaw equipped NC AI max could take down another max, of any type, in "one hit". So lets discount that as "you were mistaken" shall we? As for the Max charging you; it's really simple, you use charge and keep the range. Once the charge has ran down, turn around and let loose on the NC max; you will tear him apart as, as you are fully aware, neither the Scatters nor the Hacksaws have any real effect outside 10 to 15 metres.
We don't need another "OMG NC MAX SUPER-DUPER OP YOU GUYS" for every post made you know, we already have some on the front page. This post especially doesn't warrant it's own topic considering you've made it before, several times I believe (but am too apathetic to check), with slightly different wording. And the point doesn't work. Your entire argument hinges on shotguns (as an infantry weapon) being equally as versatile and effective as LMGs. And they're not. Of course people would complain if VS/TR MAXs had access to dual fully-functional LMGs, MAXs would have an effective range of 80+ metres and kill faster than any other automatic weapon in the game. They would be almost as effective as Hacksaws are at 8 metres out to 20-30 metres and maintain most of their effectiveness as far as infantry are rendering. So the NC trade all ability to engage at ranges above 12 metres for a mild extreme CQC advantage (don't want them to decisively win within their only effective range after all) or can trade that CQC advantage for slugs which will only ever be more effective than a TR or VS weapon at 50 metres or so against a stationary target. Meanwhile Heavy Cyclers now have one third the total possible (every pellet connecting every shot, no reloads) DPS of a current Scattercannon, but with eight-and-a-half times the magazine size and much higher accuracy. I like the sound of this already. With heightened accuracy from the laser sight they are now capable of engaging targets past their current effective range of 20-25 metres out to, perhaps, 30 metres? 35? At what point are all other combat based infantry considered irrelevant? Probably about that far.
