Which of these large races are you most thankful for?

I have to agree the body you selected does look very Worgen and generally like many wolf-peoples in games and art. the reason for this is the elongated lower leg. One of the key ways to identify a wolf or coyote is that elongated lower leg compared to a dog. Of course being an anthropomorphized model there is a human femur added on top of the entire apparatus in order to make it blend. The very svelt midsection is also a sort of common interpretation of many beast people because it enhances a common belief that narrow waists to shoulder ratios are more attractive, and we are (as a species) often finding ways to idealize beast peoples physically either as an ideal to strive for (a sort of primitive idealization) or as an idealized threat (swift and savage beasts who have to be physically superior in order to best us).

All of that aside though, I hope to see some great variance for the Iksar as well as the other races in body type. Sliders are of course the ultimate in options, if they have enough of them to actually alter what you want (shakes my fist at STO for not letting me build a properly barreled chest) but I would settle for a few presets (say five variations) in key categories of height, musculature, fat, frame (the base frame as opposed to layers of tissue), and maybe a head size tweak relative to the body.

On Iksar having breasts: Technically, no, most reptiles never had mammary glands (lactation actually did evolve in reptiles before Therapsids evolved into what we now consider mammals). Of course the Iksar are a magically created race and do not have to conform to any evolutionary logic and even if they have mammary glands they don't have to be in the same place. A compromise that would be somewhat legitimate would be to make the chest cavity of female Iksar a little different. I would suggest something that looks more like a (real, not platekini) plate chestpiece for a female. That is a slight protrusion in a manner suggesting breasts lay beneath but not actually showing any, and the sternum would still protrude as the peak in the centerline.Slight rounding of the pectoral muscles compared to a more angular version on the males will increase the feminine nature of the appearance without having to make actual breasts. It would also be in line to some extent with sexual dimorphism in reptiles where females often are smaller and less muscled. I do hope that such a thing won't be carried too far though as extreme sexual dimorphism is simply ridiculous in any playable race (staring at you Draenei). If anything the most distinguishable trait of Iksar males should be horns and crests, etc. and I hope to see a lot of variation there that could indicate various social statuses and family lines. I am also partial to a more craning, bird-like neck and a hunched back being available.

All I have to say, when you guys do Female Iksars design (if Iksar is a playable race even) please get rid of the frilliks...or make them optional... I like how EQ1s female Iksar looked way more to EQ2s, smaller frame, more colorful eyes, and the warpaint on their foreheads.

As far as the body types go, I hope pretty much all of those make it as options. Some of those make me think of a fresh young iksar just stepping out beyond the city walls for the first time. Others make me think a well seasoned iksar, one that has been around for a very very long time, and should be feared.

The only head art I do not care for is that Trex one in the middle, or the raptor one to its left. In my minds eye when Cazic made the Iksar it was off the basilisks, not dinosaurs

Strong jaw, thick neck, medium length thick tails. Never striked me as needing to be an overly tall race. Made more sense for Sarnaks to need the build, not Iksars.

Fell in love with the Iksar race from the day I started playing EverQuest in 2001. I cannot wait to see how they end up for this game!

(where my Iksar forum avatar option?!?!!)

That's pretty much my opinion. Reptiles more than mammals tend to bulk with age (think crocodiles) and I think the slouch adds to the menace of an older, and powerful Iksar.

Pouty-lipped female elves killed them and took their place.

I was looking around today for a post about POSTURE of avatars and could not find it again. I just want to add a bit for the good posture of avatars especially humans.

I am not in alpha I am just watching some videos and I not comfortable with the posture I am seeing for avatars.

I agree. Too much pouty lipped female elf avatars! Need more Iskar! And Dwarves! And Gnomes! And all the other races while you're at it.

Lol wut? Not even close.

Just compare:


Worgen have ugly oversized feet, silly body proportions, hunched back and fat arms which iksar concept thankfully lacks.

Just finished with looking through the concept arts , anyone else thinks that the orcs are looking way better than the ogres?

I really hope they give the ogres an overhaul (especially their bodys) or make the orcs a playable race which I would prefer.

The two models share the same features:

1. Ridiculously tiny waist approximately equal to the width of their biceps.
2. Digitegrade legs with almost the same proportions of their height. Each segment is almost exactly the same proportionate length. The angles on the Iksar model's lower legs are slightly better though.
3. Necks slightly larger than the waist.
4. Insanely large hands. In the case of the Iksar, so disproportionate to the forearm musculature as to be downright silly.
5. Overly large chest cavities that could not possibly be supported by their itty bitty waists. The Worgen's is of course even sillier.
6. Hunched backs (though the Worgen is obviously more so).
7. Disproportionately long arms.

Ultimately both models could have almost exactly the same skeleton and share the same fundamental design flaws. The Iksar model would be much easier to correct because the upper body is not twice the mass of the lower body as the Worgen is, but it still makes for a creature that would probably throw it's back out with mild exertion because the upper body has more mass than the lower body and is joined by a tiny core.

Several of the items I listed as common between the models are also not necessarily bad, just similar. The arms are not quite as disproportionately long and their length is not truly terrible since we don't want them to have totally human proportions. A large neck is okay as long as it is not twice the width of the waist. What is the purpose in being able to swallow a whole pig if it's three times the size of your belly? The hands are only so disproportionate because the arms are so thin and the waist so tiny. Correction of the waist and arms resolves that issue. The chest is fine if the waist is fixed. The hunched back is also perfectly fine as far as i am concerned. I would prefer more hunched backs as an option in the models. I love the vulture look! I would also prefer one of the more robust tails as the one on this model is far too thin to perform any function.

It may look impossible and wrong from physiological point of view, but it doesn't make it any less beautiful in people's eyes. ^^

Basicly all of the above. I don't however see Iksar realy as a Large race, and i am missing Barbarians.

But well, regardless how cool Iksar and Fire/Ice Giants would be (those would be realy awesome)
I think these races should never get priority over Trolls and Ogre's, they are essential part of the EQ (and basic D&D) world.

Beauty is a very subjective thing of course, and you are always entitled to your opinion of beauty. The model is, however, fundamentally the same cartoony style of the Worgen (and WoW in general). Since EQN is striving to regain that sense of immersion that has often been lost in MMOs, it would behoove them to not adopt a cartoon style.

Of course they could go too far in the opposite direction as well. One of the things that has always disappointed me about the Elder Scrolls series, and continues into the Online game, is the absolutely narrow average feeling of the body builds. Only with the Orc was I able to recreate a proportional chest cavity like my own (and had to max out the sliders to do it). While I would not expect to make an elf with such proportions, I would expect it from at least the Redguard and Nord.

Perhaps if this Iksar model we are debating represented the maximum chest and head size with the narrowest settings for all else it could be acceptable, as long as the NPCs didn't look so silly I would be okay with it.

Getting back onto the main topic a bit more.... I do like the more feathery and frilled looks for the Iksar. Peacockery is a must for reptilians! I think it's also obvious they are moving towards a more superficially archosaur (birds, dinosaurs, crocodiles) look. With the appearance changes I think this very thread indicates a size change from relatively humanoid size and shaped Iksar to something slightly more monstrous.

That's solely your opinion ofcourse, i don't find this style cartoony at all.