as an assassin, and having had great rangers in guild w/ me, here's my view somehow people are still looking at the 'nerfed' ranger they remember from not too long ago, I personally never saw this because the good rangers didn't lose much dps and were still formidable damage machines sadly it only takes a couple of craptastic rangers to make everyone think the whole class sucks . . and well that just isn't true rangers have better AA than we assassins (imho) our top ranger was well over 2k for the zone in freethinkers last night
People's misconceptions of a Ranger stem from EQ1, crappy players who don't understand that Ranger stands for "range", and that Rangers were "nerfed". I'm a level 70 Ranger. I did not quit after the class was supposedly nerfed. I am only one of 2 Rangers in my guild. We are both in the parser after every fight of every raid we do. No one gives either of us crap about our class (except for my Ranger turned Assassin friend :smileytongue: ). Even when I first started playing a Ranger before it was cool, I didn't get grief. It all depends on someone's experience with a class to give them an idea of what to expect. If you get comments from people, just ignore them. They obviously don't know the real power of what we can do.
Some people get the misconception that ribbing rangers should evolve into being group prejudiced against them. However there is one bright side to that. The people who are too stupid to get past the generalizations about rangers are also the people who are ********* in groups anyway. They are doing you a favor by not being in a group with you. These are the people who roll for all loot regardless of who it is needed by...they think they are so uber that when they make a mistake its your fault...and when, god forbid, you do make a mistake...these are the jerks who have to try to humiliate you for it. Be thankfull that those wipes arent interested in grouping with you. Youre better served in other groups.
Well rangers are **** plain and simple. The only time a ranger will do well is at lvl 70 with 100 AA's and be in a raid guild that will gear them. the solo and duo game for rangers is crap same with the group content as there are many classes that do the same damage but have utility and buffs to offer. SoE killed the ranger class when they brang PvP to EQ2, sadly what made the ranger class was procs based on the delay of there bow and that was taken out so rangers don't get unfair advantage in PvP. SoE realy needs to give rangers some utility and or group buffs to make up for the change they did when PvP came out that totaly gimped rangers.
are you saying that rangers can solo as well as a wizzy or necro? hmmm DPS on raid necro with lifeburn can hit easly 4k if they know there class. brigands swashy all have insane debuffs attached to there CA's and easly do the DPS of a ranger. and if there was a bug with bow delay then they would drop the delay of bow cause poison procs are still based on the weapon delay of bows wich has not changed. however they have done a lot to keep every piece of proc gear in the game to not proc on bows and SOE knows that bows proc more lol it was suposed to or they would change the delay. rangers can "make due" yes that i agree with but there is "NOTHING" a ranger dose better then any other class. we are sub par to all and ok at DPS. name one thing in this game a ranger is THE class to do it with other then pulling without line of sight.
Since you qualified your statement by disqualifying the "one thing" we can do. I guess the answer would be nothing.:smileytongue:
Please...read what I wrote, and not necessarily what you want to hear and it will make more sense. I didn't say we are perfect, nor did I say that we don't still need some work from the development team. However, you said we are '****'. We are not. You argue that wizards/necros are the kings of solo play now. That was true even in DoF when rangers were most powerful. A well played ranger can solo nearly just as good as these two classes...especially now in EoF where mobs are resisting 50% or more of magical attacks. You are oversimplifying a problem which you don't seem to fully understand. The problem was not only with bows. It was with every weapon in the game. In DoF, EVERYONE who understood the mechanic and wanted to take advantage of it tried to get their hands on the slowest weapon they could find. From dual-wield to two-handers to bows. To assume this mechanic was changed and only effected rangers would be a very wrong assumption. However, I do agree with you when you say that the mechanic is still broken, just in the opposite way as it was before. But you need to look at the broader picture to understand why this creates difficulty for SOE in balancing.. And no, I'm not a fan of SOE...they created this mess themselves and they simply don't know how to fix it. DPS. Whether in pickup group or guild raid, I still top the parse 50% of the time unless I'm afk...rarely coming in below 3rd. And I have neither the Sarnak War Bow, nor one of the t8 arrow summoning bows. I'm no uber ranger by any means. I do have a nice master catalog, but then so do the others who compete with me on the parser. To ask for more than a 50% ratio of being at the top of the dps parse would simply be asking for another KoS type of nerf. Yes there are other classes who do more dps than they should considering the utility they bring. I'm not debating that. But I will debate with you all day as long as you say that the ranger class is '****'. Message Edited by Zholain on 12-19-2006 02:01 PM
Necro DPS: 1800 - 3000 Assassin DPS: 1500 - 2500 Swashy DPS: 1500 - 2500 Brigand DPS: 1500 - 2300 Warlock PDS: 1500 - 2800 Wizard PDS: 1500 - 2800 Ranger DPS: 1500 - 2500 this is how they parse on our raids if they are in the right group makep. Rangers are "****" in my opinion because all the other classes listed that are doing around the same for DPS also bring a lot more to the raid then just there DPS. i dont know what you all parse in your guild but from what i know of the classes Rangers are short changed as to what they bring to a raid. hence i say Gimped. People don't make rangers to farm with for a reason there is little to do in this game at lvl 70 other then raid and on raids rangers have a lot less to offer then any other high DPS class. when i say GIMPED i meen that rangers are sub par to other DPS classes as all other DPS classes have more then there DPS to offer. Message Edited by Shadowbain on 12-19-2006 11:30 AM
Yay! more posts with "factual DPS numbers"! Thats what we all need! And the "why aren't farmers rangers" argument. I dont care what your dps numbers are personally. I still enjoy playing my ranger. I dont care what the farmers are using to run around farming with. I still enjoy my ranger. I dont care if the jones' class next door can do 1 more dps than me or 500 dps more than me. I still enjoy playing my ranger. One of the reasons I get in groups, get in raids, and am welcome in circles that include all other classes...is that I dont parse and whine about my character afterwards. ***Edited*** I forgot its also my sparkling personality. :smileyindifferent: I enjoy playing this game for reasons beyond what can my class do compared to other classes. If groups dont want to have a ranger with them when they lack DPS then that is their problem....I do sick DPS when I am on my game....regardless of whether Joe Dredd the Necro is outparsing me doesnt mean a thing. So...if you pass me up because you think I wont be good in your group...great...awesome...means that I dont have to be bored with the complaints about how **** rangers are compared to your uber flavor of the month dime a dozen necro or wizard. Message Edited by Saihung23 on 12-19-2006 03:07 PM
ditto. Shadowbain, dont agree with anything you wrote. Its posts like yours that perpetuate the myth rangers are ****. Even your DPS figures are wrong. Rangers were T1 DPS in KoS (after the early fix) and are even stronger now. Even with the necro's lifeburn or wizzies manaburn, they are more limited then predators. Encounters are very situational now, and DPS is shared amongst a number of classes. However, rangers, assassins and wizards (specced to non manaburners) should always finish top3 on zonewides and the order will vary from zone to zone. SOE have finally got the balance right between the DPS classes.
Well i look at it from the standpoint of raids, and im amazed that some don't understand that Rangers are sub par on raids to other DPS classes that parse the some but ALSO add good debuffs or group buffs to help others do better DPS or can rezz in combat or a hole slew of things they can add to the raid that a ranger can not. If you are trying to maximize a raid to be the best it can then Rangers dont have a place. you could sub in a necro for a ranger anyday and have better DPS plus combat rezz and have buffs. that is my point. Im not saying that rangers cant DPS at all nor am i saying they cant solo but i AM saying that there DPS is equal on raids to all other DPS classes and they get nothing ells to add to the raid when all other classes do. so they are a sub par DPS class. if you wish to prove me wrong then do so with facts, give me some DPS numbers on raids as to where your rangers are parsing compared to all other DPS classes then show me what the ranger offers over the other DPS classes on the raid. im sorry but the end game content in EQ2 is all about raiding if you want to see what the game has to offer. Compair DPS vers utility and buffs of all DPS classes and rangers will match on DPS but have no utility, buffs or good debuffs to offer. i understand that people get attached to there toons and dont want to be seen as a lesser DPS class but the fact is Rangers do less DPS then a necro and equal to the other Scout type DPS and wizard warloc but have none of the benifits the other DPS classes add to a raid. some of us play this game to be the best we can be and to bring as much as we can to the raid aspect of the game and when you watch the parse and bring as much DPS as the others but dont have all the utility or buffs or debuffs others bring you start asking yourself why you play a ranger. i am not content with the group content or solo as it has no chalange to it. i play this game to beat the raid content and little ells remotely intrests me so i only look at the raid end of the game. i have never once stated rangers are not good DPS as i do 1700 - 2500 DPS on raids when in the right group but so do all the other DPS classes in our guild but i dont have the utility or combat rezz or big bebuffs the other DPS classas have. so yes i feel rangers are less of a class on raids to the other DPS classes. When all things are Equal with DPS but other classes have more then that to offer i dont see how you can say Rangers are Equal to other classes in any way. i will agree to disagree that Rangers are a balanced class on raids sorry i dont see it.
I agree dps wise we are ok. We still lack the spike damage that some other classes get tho. Our dietys are a joke, and I'm getting sick of have max dkp, how about some gear rangers would actually want to roll on. Our utility is...well lets face it we don't have any. I still argue soe should turn our craptastic bird into a "dispatch" of deagro. But yeh our class is crazy fun, but from a raid point I don't think we really cut the mustard. Sure we can put up good numbers but a well played, well gear brig can do the same and bring debuffs that improve the entire raids dps. If soe doesn't want us atop of that dps list then I would argue a little utility isn't uncalled for. I think it's a reasonable statement to say we are subpar to some other classes in a raid. Granted there are worse examples out there, *cough*crusaders*cough*. I think soe's balance also needs to include value in raid. - Katsugen
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but what you ask for will never happen as long as there are wizards in the game. They will ALWAYS proclaim that they should be top dps...and in a sense I agree with that. But their reasoning for this is that rangers have higher survivability, and that we have just as much utility as they do. A very wrong claim, I know. But that's exactly what happened in DoF and I don't think there's anyone here who can deny SOE's love of the wizard class, and SOE listens to them very intently. You have to be realistic in your expectations, and understand that certain things just aren't going to happen. They are not going to create a class that always sits on top of the parser in every situation. And I wouldn't expect rangers to be given any sort of significant dps increase unless we give up something else, i.e. chain armor, agro control, more weapon limitations, etc. A more realistic expectation would be that SOE will make more gear available that will allow us to reach our potential with the same effort as some of the other classes....but I wouldn't even expect that in the immediate future. And I think that's something we can all agree on.
Well, after reading other threads, it's become painfully obvious to me that many Rangers do not use tier appropriate arrows and some don't use poisons. And, a very large percentage of Rangers who do use poisons only use the damage poison. Many don't even realize that they can stack all three poison types. Parsing on top is relative to the players in your group. If you only group with people who are willing to accept a Ranger who isn't going to put forth the effort to do his absolute best, you are probably always going to parse on top. Why so much Ranger hate? Because there are some truely terrible Rangers out there. The only thing you can do to make getting groups easier, is to impress the people you group with. Eventually, the word will get out. EQ2 servers has some of the lowest populations in the industry. Your reputation is what you make of it. Work to get on people's "I like to group with" lists and try to stay off the "players to avoid" lists.
You can quibble with Shadowbain's raid dps numbers all you want. And I certainly agree that raid dps is somewhat situational...you can't simply flat out dps every raid mob in the same manner or with the same results. Having said that, however, broadly speaking Shadowbain is correct about the relative weakness of rangers in high-end raids. Broadly speaking, a number of classes are approximately equal to or even exceed ranger raid dps yet all of them have substantial amounts of raid utility. Rangers, as we know, have utterly zero raid utility. Let me give an example... If a brigand is within 100-200 dps of a ranger, yet that same brigand allows every other dps class increase its dps by 100-200, then why would a raid have a ranger instead of a brigand? Now ask yourself the same question about any number of other classes. I have maintained all along that for rangers to be truly "balanced" then ranger raid dps has to be substantially superior in almost all situations to every other class. And I don't mean by a measly 200 dps or so. "Balanced" in this context means that there is a compelling reason for a raid/guild to have a ranger in a raid/guild other than their wonderful personality. There are compelling reasons to have rogues, bards, casters and healers of all varieties, etc in raids/guilds. But right now, there is no such compelling reason to have a ranger on a raid or in a guild. Until that is fixed, rangers won't be "balanced". And to fix it, we must be made the clear top dps class in the game.
I did fine at 50 AA, with t7 ammo. Rangers do need utility. Who cares if someone can hit 4k in your guild, every necromancer world wide can do it with Undead tide and Manaburn up. Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on 12-20-2006 11:01 AM
