Would it be too much to ask to make the Primitive Instinct line group wide?

[p]Veedublya wrote : but i would consider an extra 300-500 resists from 105 wis a very weak defensive buff [/p][p]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/p][p]Well considering the secondary on two of the buffs adds in only 250 ish on 1 stat group wide ....its not that weak comparitively speaking to give that much accross the board to one individual. Except of course that diminishes with particular stats that they have up high. And the last time i was checking(6 months or more) wis never gave more than {2.4 mit/per wis pt} on everything accross the board except physical.[/p][p]But that brings up another thought ... they should switch the health buff and magic buff we have ...so health goes with Physical mit and magic with elemental. Then picking wich one to not use wouldnt be that hard??? Or does another priest have that combo allready?[/p][p]Im not real familar with other preists buffs & what all stacks and what doesnt. But maybe they should take a serious look at Buffing in general between healers. Add in more buff preplaning as part of the strat...and take out some of the redundancies in group/raid... not giving us more at once ...But more diversity in buffing combinations. [/p]

[p]VW wrote: {hope you dont mind me shortening your name}[/p][p]I think they should just get rid of the magic buff attached to the mit and replace it with health, the amount of health we give to the group is beyond pitiful compared to a shammy or cleric. I know my Defiler can buff the tank around 2.5k HP and my Temp can do around 2k HP (rough estimate)... while my warden sits at almost 300 HP[/p][p]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/p][p]Aggree totally on getting rid of an almost worthless magic buff ....But are you saying to give us 2 diff health buffs?[/p][p]And compared to other priests ....even the amount combined would be pitiful ....Hence total Revampamation :XD:[/p]

[p]Why not make Primitive insticnt work like the fury buff.. they can put it on 3 targets? why not let us do that. That would be acceptable imo.[/p][p] As to giving us more boost to HP.. yea I agree. warden buffs arn't really that impressive. Like our see invis buff why not let that affect the group aswell.[/p][p] But I'm sure I'd get to eat my shoes before I see a warden spell revamp anytime soon.[/p]

Skivley101 wrote:

Sure why not? I think 2 would be fair since my temp and defiler have 3 HP buffs each

[p] AMEN![/p][p]And since the P.I. buff is a melee buff anyway, why not make it a group wide option in the Melee Spec line, like a last option down that side of the tree? [/p][p]And Group SoW option down the Movement Line of the tree? [/p]

MysidiaDrakkenbane wrote:

[p]I think it should just be a group wide buff period without having to be AA spec'd, group SoW isnt that big of a deal imo, not a long recast so doesnt take too much time to SoW an entire grp.[/p][p]I think that wardens should be for melee groups as fury's are for caster groups and i see 2 fair ways of doing that...[/p][p]1) Primitive Instinct... Should be a group buff, but cut down the skill itself from a single target +65 C/S/P to a group wide +30 C/S/P or so... +65 is overkill and i think a +30ish groupwide would be much nicer for a melee group.[/p][p]2) Aspect of the Hawk... Should be made a STR/Power buff instead of a WIS/Power buff, Furies have a INT buff since they are "caster druids", so Wardens should have a STR buff since they are "melee druids". [/p]

[p]1) These changes are never as simple as you think. Cutting down the buff by 35 points would **** the warden DPS. If they do that then they need to add a skill+ to our endline EOF melee AA because the CA's from there have a lower chance to hit than the CA's from melee classes and we don't have an offensive stance. The +65 skill mitigates that so we don't wiff like mad and if you played a melee warden pre-lvl 26 you know how frustrating the wiffs were. So if SOE lowers it group wide then they need to add a skill to our self only Crit AA at the end of EOF melee line to offset the loss from a personal perspective. I'd be fine with that.[/p][p]2) Personally I like the wisdom and so does my MT. Plus this would effect non-melee wardens too much. They don't care about strength. While I'd like to have a strength buff I don't see it happening. [/p]

[p] I know changes are not easy but its not that hard, it is do-able and isnt an unfair request.[/p][p]1) Cutting 35 to your offensive skills is not going to **** dps, +65 is way over kill. +65 to your offensive skills means you are hitting, what? 13 levels higher? That is way more than needed, even +30 is 6 levels more which isnt bad, maybe around +40 to the group would be a good number, that would increase your offensive skills by 8 levels.[/p][p]2) Not trying to attack ya on this one, but I dont know a single tank that would prefer 109 wis over 109 str, 109 wis will give the tank around 250 resists, 109 str will up their power pool and up their dps. Also, not very many raid guilds have wardens in the MT grp, most have em in the melee dps grp or OT grp. Having that str buff will have us a solid spot in the melee grp because we will actually offer some utility.[/p]

*Sigh* not this discussion again (about changing out buffs to suit the melee'ers). I know some wardens think wardens are destined to be melees and all our buffs should therefore be focused on that playstyle. Please, some of us are not melee spec'ed and that change to Aspect of the Hawk would be really bad for us. Since both the melee and the ranged warden can use the WIS why not let it stay there? Besides WIS suits the whole 'defensive' druid rather well. I don't agree wardens are 'melee' druids. As I see it we can choose between different playstyle and melee is one of them. I can understand why some would like Primitive to be a group buff. I'm just not sure I would like to pay for it by making it do less. I prefer it to be single target and with a high number. But I can see why others would prefer a smaller number and then have it group wide. I think we as a warden community should be careful about wishing for our spells to be changed to suit specific playstyles (ranged, melee, solo, raid, casual, you name it). If you raid a lot you want one thing, if you mostly play in smaller groups and more casual you want another thing.

Untrue. Hasn't worked that way since, oh, before LU13? Many moons, anyway. SoE stopped doing the math this way when raids were building main tanks around +defense and +parry and trivializing encounters due to raid mobs being completely unable to land autoattacks. My own newbie paladin was taking out green ^^^ Names with app3 skills and handcrafted gear (no app4s or imbues in the game yet) just due to his defensive stance "greying out" the mobs. Now it caps out at (your level x 1.5), so there's useful skill buffs all the way to +105. My main's a WIS-line paladin, which gives him a +34-to-everything-offensive-except-ranged skill buff. His autoattack hit rate going through Unrest as MT was 51% zonewide, with his slashing skill sitting at +28 above par. (+34 slash from self, +12 slash from a Templar, -18 for defensive stance). Going through with the same character as "backup healer", and thus in offensive stance slightly over half of the time, his autoattack hit rate went up to 61% with a skill swapping between +77 above par and +16 above par. (+34 self buff, mostly +43 offensive stance, sometimes -18 defensive stance). The first seven fights, where I'm sure I was in offense stance the whole time (but may not have always been "behind the mob" avoiding block/parry), I was 99/123 autoattack, for an 80% hit rate. (I'm leaving out potential +slash gear, since I've swapped some gear around since then, but it wouldn't have been more than another +5 worth.) So, don't discount +skill above the first 30 or 40 points. It still adds up, even to +77 and beyond.

[p]1) Prrasha answered that one nicely. [/p][p]2) Tanks need to survive as much if not more than they need DPS. All those little resist boosts add up and help. Our guild may not do things the way 'most' guilds do but we have our own style. Our MT may not use buckler line, we like warden in MT group and most of our priests are DPS specced but hey we kick major Avatar, Thex, Woushie, ect butt so whatever we do isn't holding us back. BTW since most guilds can't do those mobs/raids maybe it's good we don't do things like most guilds. :thumbup:[/p]

[p]Dang double post.[/p]

[p] I couldn't agree more. My original suggestion was to simply take our only offensive buff and change it from a single target buff to a group wide buff which I believe would provide balance and improved raid desirability while not impacting solo balance. Personally, I wouldn't want us steered more towards melee, an option I have disliked from the beginning, but rather, improve us rather than change us so that by default, we become more desirable for melee group healing.[/p][p] Improve don't change!!! [/p]

Agree. Lets leave Hawk the way it is. Not every warden is melee specced and they like hawk the way it is and many of the melee specced wardens like it that way too. I really do want to see some change to the Primal Instinct line though. I'd really like to be able to keep it on me and at least one other with the current skill levels. If SOE does make it group wide I don't mind if they tone it down as long as they add a proportionate amount of skill+ to the final AA in the EOF melee line so that we melee wardens can maintain the same level of skill buff we have when it's on us now.

[p]Ummm no....[/p][p]I made a warden to be a healer....if I want to do uber melee, I'll play my monk. Changing Aspect of the Hawk would certainly cause me to shelve my warden forever. I'd rather go back to being a fury. No offense guys but this "melee warden" thing is really getting over board. We're a priest class, not a scout or fighter. I want my wis since I actually like to HEAL in groups and raids. Devs, please don't think these people are speaking for all wardens, because they most assuredly are not. [/p]

Interesting...every raid I have ever been on on my server, guild or non guild, ALWAYS has a cleric/shaman/WARDEN in the MT group. Not sure why your experiences would be so different.

Amen Liljna....couldn't have said it better.

Arani@Crushbone wrote:

I think everyone makes a warden to be a healer And I dont know why everyone keeps bringing up the "melee warden" arguement, not once did I say i wanted this to up my dps, im not even melee spec'd!

Arani@Crushbone wrote:

[p] No but you could have said it earlier. Now the thread is derailed back to changing Hawk. [/p][p]Hawks stays the same. [/p][p]Lets get some support on Primitive Instinct line being made into a group wide buff at the same level of skill. Or if group wide version needs to be lowered then the melee warden line also gets a personal +offensive skill boost to keep their own skill at least the same.[/p]