I was just trying to offer you guys a solution to your problem by using resources we all already have. No changes are needed to the zerk class, quite frankly im tired of hearing fellow zerkers complain about how "bad" we have it. tbh, the zerk class is the best fighter class hands down, we get away with murder as far as dps goes and with group encounters we are far and above any other fighter besides maybe a paladin for aggro control, and even they need help from a good dps class for their amends. My challenge to you all is this: Before you start another post complaining about how you cant do something, check your resources ALREADY AVAILABLE TO YOU ALL before complaining about something we dont have. There are heaps of zerkers out there that have no problem tanking any encounter in the game. I don't want to hear about how they have all the l33t gear and the best raids, I do it all in kos gear and I tank kos raids without a lick of difficulty. If my guild gets to eof or i decide to join an eof raiding guild, i know i will adapt and tank those encounters too.
actually my beef is mainly with the players not our class, my server has very few talented zerkers and with that goes the overwhelming mentality that guards are the only true tank and people often forget that we are mirrored classes. zerks and guards tank equally as well with slight variances to each class.
I hear ya there Lyger that our server sucks when it comes to people's opinions of a zerk. I've been working my *** off to prove that I can tank as a well as a guard. I don't think anything is WRONG with our class. Sure there are some things that need a little polish but I make do with what we have and focus more on improving my play than complaining.
Maybe I just suck, but the highest I've ever managed to zonewide in an EoF zone was ~2.1k in MMIS, without stakes obviously. Now, there's nothing stopping a Guardian to zonewide over 2k as well. DPS gap? Not really there unless you're talking about specific AOE encounters. Only they get a melee skill buff, reinforcement, AA for the double attack which we have to get our entire set to get, reduction of reinforcement on their set pants while we get stuck with a crappy 10 health regen, AND a straight hp buff instead of our PoS health regen. How exactly is that even remotely balanced? Yippe we can spike up to 4k+ on AOE fights, and that really helps on mobs that matter because everybody knows the strat to PHH is AOEing down the pumpkins, and cmayong and avatars? Heck yeah, just use one tank, AOE down everything in the fight! I don't really think the zerker class is broken, it's just really annoying at the lack of actual AOE fights. The closest thing this expansion was probably Sariah or that named in MMIS, which are complete jokes, and you just AOE down the adds right at the start and well over half the encounter is just working on the named. Everything else is one tank on the named, another on the adds. /yawn
Lyger@Mistmoore wrote: lyger, there's a big difference in a guardian and a zerker... and a previous poster has stated a few of the reasons, and those same reasons are making the beserker class fall short these days.. even our achievements are **** compared to the guardians, makes me almost want to go back down the wisdom line to get stance mastery, if i didnt have to waste so many damned points on the other useless bullcrap in that line, i would do it!!!
I agree... I am watching other tank classes DPS climb and match mine... I am watching Inquisitors lately come really close to me with melee DPS also (CRAZY!) While I don't mind so much because my DPS isn't exactly disgusting or anything i will say I am in full DPS mode 4/4/8 STR/STA/WIS in a group usually with a Dirge and Inq and here I am watching the guardian parse right near my scores while we both use fabled SoD... and I am in more offensive gear for STR and procs etc... It's OK because a 2nd guardian on a raid was USELESS before.... but I ask you this... why have a Zerker on a raid if the Guardian can DPS at the same level and has more aggro pulling abilities? Both of our classes took it in the buttocks with the Raid wide buff recently... an of course all the plate tanks took it hard when they set up the diminishing returns on mitigation... I mean seriously was it supposed to be set so low that a fabled chain person can hit it? what's the point of wearing plate then? What I would like to see is taunts being increased to help us hold aggro as well as a guardian.... and maybe 1 "snap aggro" spell that works like an extra rescue... I think we are the only tank class that has only 1 thing to really get a mobs attention when stuff goes wrong. and of course I think both warriors need an adjustment to their raid wide buff... because ours are horrible.
WOW, Im back after 4month break & was thinking of rolling a Zerker, but after reading these posts im not so sure..hehe.
I second that Nembutal, why have a zerker on a raid if the guardian can match us or get close to our dps. That is what I have been saying to myself for a while now. I am not trying to gripe, but what separates us now that the other plate fighters that can equal or in some cases beat a zerker on dps. When I rolled my zerk that is what I expected in a zerker was better dps than our plate fighter companions. Where is that personification of unbridled aggression and fury that a zerker is suppose to be now? I think we can still dps, but now the gap between what separates zerkers from the other plate fights is now diminished plain and simple. For now I shall press on till I see a day where we will be just what we are described to be!
beserkers can still tank, but our dps has fallen off considerably, and this rolls right over into the beserkers aggro control, because beserkers lack of aggro control now comes from our lacking dps ... i think we got screwed pretty much... wasnt much wrong with this class, and now some stupid developer has messed the beserker class up.. i honestly think the developers have done now what happened to the paladins a couple years ago, basicly nerfed us to near uselessness. about the only reason now a beserker would be wanted on a raid would be the +122 strength to group, for swashies ,rangers, assasins and brigands.......
I have seen very few guardians match us in dps. I kow they're out there but on the whole more zerkers do amazing dps than guardians do. There are always exceptions and I think (hope) that it's those people behind the toon and not that we are getting screwed. I will agree though that our dps has come down compared to a few months ago and hopefully this will be fixed when ROK comes out.
Danzer@Vox wrote: point out a few examples then, they have bulking for abilities where we have recast reductions and duration enhancements, only a few examples like tower of stone and block set us apart where we can escape the death effects of UW. the main one to note is the lack of stamina/health and the lack of a self buff to attack skill so our defensive DPS takes a hige hit. the changes to their tree were to bring up their DPS to reverse the effects of the nerf on scout aggro transfers which they really needed. sure we need some work and i would love to see some of these changes reversed or corrected but you still can't deny we can do the job and do it almost equally as well. the main issue i see if it continues is zerks will no longer be a desirable class for raids, none of us want to see that happen.
Sorry for all my gripes, but Zeuhl you are correct in saying maybe the person playing to the toon has much to do with this all. After I noticed a drop in my dps (soloing) I think my depression is carrying over to my play style. My zerk still does some damage but I guess it is the fact that I notice this more in my solo play, and since I am not as excited as I once was about playing my zerk I am just lethargic somewhat. I am still raiding and trying to get those fabled weapons which should help immensely in my dps not to mention the lack of some master ca's. I will press on, just hoping that I can get a great roll on a great one hander and masters.
the changes to their tree were to bring up their DPS to reverse the effects of the nerf on scout aggro transfers which they really needed. ok lyger, then why did our dps go down? i dont want to be almost as good as a guardian... our dps should be alot better than a guardian, as thier defensive skills are better than ours.. but now the guardians offense is as good or better than the beserkers offense and the beserkers defense is falling short.. i just wish the developers could get something right for once without screwing up an entire class... seems like they do it everytime combat adjustments come around... they mess up rather quick then it takes them a year to fix thier screwups... which in my book ,is crap!
Well if they won't add more AA routes, i think there could be atleast EoF tree revamp, they did speak of it happening by end of the year.
this place is like a damn rollercoaster ride, some people still love the class and others whine and complain day after day. personally the only thing i hate is the stereotyping that we can't tank from our server's players. honestly, i don't care what anyone thinks so long as i parse in the top 5 and am still offtanking mobs or MTing them i could care less. the few and far between times when a crusader beats me on the parse i shrug it off, the 0 times a guardian has beat me on the parse, well duh... there's just too many "the glass is half empty" people around here. yup, the nerfs are damn annoying and seemingly will never end but you know how it goes, from top to the bottom is how the nerfs go in online games so we are just paying for the fun times we once had.
Well here is my take on the new AA, not just for berserkers but as a balance to the whole game. There are ALOT of classes that gain very little, and alot that gain a ton. Take rangers vs assasssin for example. Rangers have very little benefit from gaining more AA's in the KOS tree while assassins get AE auto attack. Summoners gain almost nothing in the KoS tree while mages gain a drastic DPS boost. Warriors, unfortunatly, are in the same boat. Guardians are going to get a substantial boost in DPS(addition of agi line) while berserkers will gain very little by going deeper in the current builds or expanding to agi or wis. Im sure some of you will argue otherwise but my DPS with time compression saw very little improvement, which was expected because the majority of my damage come from auto attack. Final Int line will yield about half the benefit of TC. This change will draw the DPS between the warrior class even smaller while they are left with greater tanking tools and we have... slightly more AE dps? Yes, we tank well, i am proof and possibly one of the bigest advocates for zerker MT's. But with this comming AA change i see little advantage to being a zerker over a guard. Maybe im just having a case of grass is greener, but i may be a resident in the guardian boards with this expansion.
What I am personally hoping, and yes it may be a bit of a pie in the sky thing, but that the CA upgrades from 71-80 actually add meaningful DPS, regardless of the AA boosts. That might help to balance out the fact that AA increases will mean so little. I know the beta NDA prevents any valid discussion of the numbers publicly. Hopefully they are talking about such things on the beta forums.
i would hope so, the spell upgrades are the only thing i am really praying for in repairing what we have lost. i just hope there is some knowledgable zerkers getting into beta and giving some good feedback to the devs in setting things straight.
a few simple quotes from the original book that the game came with and the original design origin for each of our classes: Berserker: "Berserkers are chatotic warriors who inflict heavy damage with all manner of weapons. They protect themselves by wearing heavy platemail armor. Their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents, to whom they show no mercy." Guardian: "Guardians can don the heaviest of armors to protect themselves in combat and aid in the defense of their allies. They stand firm against any threat and bear the brunt of attacks while felling opponents with any of a variety of weapons."
