Rather then sift through the ongoing thread on this issue, and risk having my post completely unseen, I thought I would explain it here. Firstly, lets clarify what we mean by "DPS" if you consider DPS to be purely the damage done by a class through Direct Damage (or) Area Of Effect damage spells, then we are at the bottom of that ladder. However, if that is how you define DPS of a class, then your narrow-minded and are never going to know which the best class's are because you cant see the big picture. Lets do a some simple syllogisms. Rogues have high damage special attacks. Special Attacks require large amount of power. Therefore Rogues require large amount of power. Illusionists have arguebly the best power regen spell. Power regen spells provide large amount of power. Therefore Illusionists provide large amounts of power. Rogues Require large amounts of power and Illusionists provide large amounts of power. I think you can see the connection from here. The same syllogism can be applied to Wizards as well, and really any class because the more power they have at any one point in time means the more damage they can do over the course of the fight. Let us remember the cardinal rule here, power regen is infinitly more important then max power. If a given class can unleash special attacks as fast as they repop without any fear of running out of power, then you have maximized the effiecency of that class, the only class in the game that can come close to making that happen is an Illusionist (and Coercer of course, let us not forget our dark brethren). Also, Legerity will haste melee and rogues by (currrently 50%), single target 15 min. buff. So assuming you are in the group, you can parse the dps of any melee/rogue and take between 20% and 33% (depending on other classes present and their buffs) of their dps and add it to the effective DPS of yourself, most of the time this will put you significantly higher then most melee and any caster save a wizard. Assuming you are a good Illusionist with Adept III and Master I nukes you can knock out almost 100 dps on a ^^ Herioc. With AoE attacks (on an AoE encounter) you can reach well over 100 dps. Add on DPS done via Haste and your getting close to 200 dps. But factor in your power regen and your group is doing so much more DPS as a direct result of your presence (assuming your actually casting your buffs) that an Illusionist is a most desired class to group with. Do not forget our (currently one target only??? *$%#&!) Dynamism. That adds some direct dps to one of the (previously all of the) rogues as well. Also our DoT (Wither Hope), which at 48 sec, and a much shorter recast, can (assuming your a good player) be kept on the mob 100% of the time and as a result proc over and over again extra ticks of the DoT (at 70ish dmg a tick) your racking up more DPS. I mean if you mind is limited to thinking, "our nukes sucks *$%#&! our dps sucks" then frankly you suck and need to change to a rogue or wizard. Lastly, as a good Illusionist you need to adapt to the encounter. Obviously if your doing a raid encounter that was just recently retuned by SoE for the 4563456th time and you see that certian spells are getting resisted you need to quickly adapt and in the first few minutes of the fight, figure out a system that your going to use for the rest of the fight as to what spells your going to cast when in order to maximise your DPS. I will give you all a hint though, on Darathor V2.0, hes completely immune to all our nukes, so we are basically Dismay b***h, cause that is the only spell in our entire arsenal which will land on him, and if you have experienced otherwise /tell me in game cause we need to talk. *************************************************************************************************************************EDIT******************************************************************************************************* Just snagged this off of another thread as an example of someone who considers DPS to be solely the dmg done by your single target and area target nukes, which even by definition doesnt fit DPS. I mean, if you want to argue that our nukes are weak go ahead and argue that, you wont get anywhere because our weak nukes are compensated for by our utility DPS, something which other mages dont have and in fact is that which makes us higher DPS then other mage classes. QUOTE Here are some facts for you people. It seems most people who are against us getting an increase in DPS suffer from a low level of intelligence and make god awful asumptions and counter-arguements. Myth: "OMG you can't expect us to be wizards! If you wanted to play a wizard then go make one!" reality: Many people of low intelligence post the above arguement. Nobody here is asking we get the same level of dps as a wizard so I don't understand why these clueless statements keep being paraded around by people like drakedge. We simply want DPS that is better then the scout class but since we have the most utility, we should have the weakest DPS out of all mages. Myth: "my mezzing is so uber I am a god like creature." reality: Mezzing is detrimental to 90% of groups. 2 healers in a group doing AOE damage is far better then mezzing. Check your god like additude at the door because guess what, most people finding it annoying when enchanters mezz everything! Myth: "Breeze and haste are so awsome we deserve to do almost no dps" reality: Priests have awsome heals that are ultra important for group sucsess as well as incredible buffs yet they can match or damage/outdamage us. Just because we get a couple of cool utilities doesn't justify us adding zero DPS in groups. Also, breeze and haste are cool but they aren't that great to the point of making us useless in many other ways. Myth: "We are enchanters, we are not supposed to do any DPS" reality: The devs have stated that all mages should be DPS. This is why we all wear cloth. We are very offensive, with almost no defense. This should be very obvious. Myth: "We are illusionists get it?" reality: It is obvious that we can't go by our class names. Out of all the classes, illusionists get the worst illusions in the game. So we really aren't illusionists are we? We are emergency mezz/buffers. ENDQUOTE I guarentee you this above poster, whos name I wont mention but whos post can be found currently on the same page has never ran the numbers, he has never seen what a group with and without a illusionist does in terms of DPS, he has never compared his class against a bard (who btw is the master of group DPS increase, because of haste and STR buffs, coupled with an Illusionist and you can expect to see near 1000 dps by a 6 man group). Oh and I want to enlighten him about one thing, I for one, when I tell you to go be a wizard, I am not telling you that because you want to have the highest DPS, I am telling you that because you seem to think that all the DPS of a class comes from the DD nukes. REALITY: it doesn't. Message Edited by Eater on 04-20-2005 09:56 AM
Some folks believe the Breeze line are DPS spells, because they help others retain their ability to do damage. In that case, I would propose that Heal spells are even better DPS spells. People without power are reduced to their auto-attack damage. People without health are zero DPS. I prefer to confine "Damage" spells to spells which actually cause damage. I can understand including Haste in this, as there is a measureable effect, and even a significant effect if you're in a group with significant auto-attack damage (you, a healer and four guardians comes to mind). But calling every spell that allows a party to continue doing damage to a mob risks including darn near every buff, debuff and utility spell in the game.
I think your confusing two things. The ability to do damage. The ability to do extra damage. You can go kill stuff with a healer and no illusionist and stay alive for sure, and kill really slow. You cannot go kill stuff with a illusionist and no healer, you will die for sure. (we are assuming lvl 50 mobs here, not 21). You can go kill stuff with a healer and illusionist and have uber dps. Basically you can view healing as a dps utility but that is frankly absurd, because without healing.....you die. There is a very stark difference between being able to kill mobs and being able to kill mobs quickly. Edit: also, its not a risk to include every spell as effecting DPS, why do you think these games are so hard to balance? Every spell plays a part, and the fact of the matter is, if someone wanted to they could take a group and run the numbers and find out precisily who is doing what DPS. Alot of work there, so we generalize. We take different groups and measure their DPS, to find out, bottom lines which classes are offering the greatest advantage in terms of DPS, so while a ranger might have a debuff that helps dps by 1.3 dps, we dont care, he isnt a good enough class to want in a group trying to maxmise DPS. But when a group without and enchanter is pulling 200-300 dps less then a group with, I wouldnt be complaining. Message Edited by Eater on 04-20-2005 10:22 AM
I'm not confusing anything -- I am disagreeing with your overly broad interpretation of DPS. Here is an example, within your "damage vs extra damage" framework: A party is hunting orcs. The high DPS warlock catches aggro. He would normally be dead in two rounds, but a ward prevents him from dying. Now, the party would have been able to kill the orcs anyway, but having that warlock's "extra" damage helped them kill it far more quickly. That ward spell enhanced the party's damage considerably! If this is an aggressive warlock, pushing the edge of his DPS limits, that scenario may happen every other fight (of course, he could dial back, and get less aggro -- but then, he'd be doing less damage, not extra). My overall point is this: When measuring DPS, we have to limit the discussion to spells which produce measureable damage. Otherwise, the debate gets too muddy. Even haste becomes difficult, as its value ranges from a lot (chanter, healer, guardian x4) to zero (chanter, healer, sorcerer x4). If you do not focus on things you can measure, then comparisons and balancing become nearly impossible. I'd also point out that other classes have buffs which enhance the DPS of the entire party. We're not unique in this, and in many situations, our buffs aren't the most effective ones. This is not to state that I believe Breeze line spells aren't tremendously useful. They are. Clearly, they should be considered in the overall balance of the enchanter classes. However, your theory that Breeze = DPS is just a logic game, not a serious point.
Fair enough, we can limit the spell discussion, but I have to disagree with you the breeze does not fall under consideration. The numbers speak for themselves, and I will get a parse ASAP to post here.
Parse? You're going to parse breeze? That's an oxymoron. Parses are useful, because they provide large amounts of raw data, correcting for people's assumptions and guesswork. Parsing breeze will be nothing but assigning numbers to assumptions. "I was in a group, and the warlock did X damage. If he hadn't been breezed, I think he would have done Y damage." That completely ignores all other sources of mana regen, from manastones to GEB's to racial traits and drink. I think we already know there are some encounters that are very difficult without mana regen, and that the breeze line of spells provide some of the best mana regen in the game. There's no need to stretch our imaginations with some kind of formula equating 1 pt of regen with X pts of damage. Because that number will vary from 0 to infinity, depending upon the group makeup, type of encounter, etc. You'll produce some isolated and meaningless data points.
I am going to provide a parse which demonstrates that a group without an illusionist (or coercer) does considerably less DPS then one with. "When measuring DPS, we have to limit the discussion to spells which produce measureable damage." I can measure breeze easily. I parse a group's DPS while breezed and then I parse it unbreezed, on the same encounter. (Obviouslty there will be a % error due to skill usage etc.. but such is statistics.). Now, perhaps you do not mean measureable literally and you mean it as "substantial damage". In which case, a group of parses, with an illusionist vs a group without would give some very substantial evidence that Illusioinst's are providing very fine DPS to their groups, a large part of which I believe is due to Breeze. Technically you can determine, for a given skill the amount of extra damage breeze will provide (as you said), but it wouldnt be practical in any way. We can argue all day about breeze, and its implications, but wether you consider it a source of dps or not, the bottom line is that Illusionists are well sought after members of a good Grind group, for precisily the DPS they bring to it, and as such deserve to only have our utilities reduced to compensate for any increase in raw nukage. *note* this is relative DPS to other classes, if DPS in general is considered not enough to take on certain encounters, then everything needs to be increased across the board. Message Edited by Eater on 04-20-2005 11:03 AM
Ok, that does sound interesting. You're going to parse the DPS a group does with or without an illusionist. For proper parsing, you'll have to do a LOT of that. Most folks won't accept less than several hours' continuous data as sufficient to defeat the random number generator. But if you do that, I'm quite curious as to the results. It would be even more interesting if you could compare the illusionist's value with another class. I'd love to read the difference between "five people and an illusionist" and "the same five, but with a warlock." I predict the latter group will regenerate mana more quickly. Their combats will end so much faster, they will have more out-of-combat regen. All sarcasm aside, if you do this right, the results could be really interesting.
What about our soloability? What does breeze do for our soloability? barely anything. Soloing anything sucks, it takes forever. Breeze does not help this. And breeze will only start affecting people if they start taking on multiple groups at once, when they start running out of power. 5 People vs. a single ++, nobody will run out of power, in most cases. So where does breeze add dps to that? It lowers down-time, barely since the drinks in this game are pretty *$%#&! good. Now if we're taking on a groupx2 with a single group, then sure I can see breeze increasing dps for that specific battle. However I still think that'd a Wizard would be able to augment the group's DPS probably more so than breeze+chanter would. So why don't you compare that too.
Your syllogism is not accurate. And your cardinal rule is no cardinal rule at all. What you do not take into account is that the importance of power regen is very situational. I have been in many groups where the fights have been short enough that there has never been the slightest risk that the members would run out of power during combat. And out of combat regen with good drink is not a problem at all. So how much value in dps has my power regen in this situation?? Haste doesnt have an effect on special attacks. Melee who spam theirs specials will not notice much benefit from this buff. So i am in a group with no risk to run out of power even if they chain their specials, how much dps increase you think will my haste buff provide in this situation?? Dynamism in average will broke 1x per fight in an average group. Thats at least the number i get out of my log files. Now this will boost our dps ! Unless the mob is resist most classes will be able to keep their dps constantly high in most situations. This doesnt apply for enchanter as the value of their buffs is higly situational. And in many situations they will be sub par. Just cause we we provide the potential in specific situations (for example long named or raid fights) to increase the endurance of other classes does not make us a high dps class in the other 90% of the game.
Eater sorry to say but you definitly not know game mechanic (DPS wise)... Its happens that I have main coercer lvl 50 and twink warlock lvl 34 (suprise suprise....) so I can look on situation from both side of fence.. First and foremost I'll give facts - my warlock DPS not limited by mana regeneration, they somethat limited by my manapool (not much thou) but mainly my DPS limited by ability tank hold agro. But lets assume that tank is perfect and I can go full offense... Bear in mind at lvl 34 warlock dont have (yet) RoI, GEBs, Ring of Nightblood or his prismatic weapon - only self buffs and life to mana conversion. During average fight vs. +6 lvl double arrow up mobs (nightbloods) I normally can burn over duration of fight around 50% of my power max, usually less (again bear in mind that I am nuking none stop for maximum DPS) during fight I "could" hit once life to mana conversion in such case I end up with about 70% power left. After I factor my tier 4 drink, life to mana and personal mana regeneration buff (warlocks have it too ... suprise?) I fuel from 50-70% to full power in 10-20second. Tell me how presence of enchanter will increase my DPS? ... answer - it wont only thing it do - it allow me stay full power all the time no matter what. Now lets not foget that at 34 I am not only dont have mana regeneration gear but I also dont have my best nukes... Current nukes have efficiency 10:1 (damage per mana) ... compare to enchanters 4.1:1 ... past lvl 37 efficiency become 40:1 (yes nuke cost 50 power and do 2000 damage). So as you see you power regeneration have ZERO effect on DPS... In lower lvl groups all it do - reduce downtime but again only for low lvl group Now about haste .... By your lvl (if you really lvl 50 as you claim) you should know that haste dont have what so ever effect on special and for melee 80% DPS comes from specials and 20% DPS from regular melee attack. Self haste for most tanks is around 45-50%, FBSS 20% so we are speaking about base lvl of haste 65-70% and celerity add how much? 49%? Anyway factor it in 1 equation and you'll get result everyone know already for awile maximum you can add around 5-10% DPS (which is around 20DPS total in best case scenario) So as you can see your crack and you haste add total 20DPS to group (assuming you have 5 melee) or none if you have wizards/warlocks for DPS part
I'll happily disagree w/ this statement. I believe it was true in EQ1 yet not in EQ2, due to the 2 seperate types of power regen currently in game In Combat Power Regen Out of Combat Power Regen Through my own testing months ago i found that w/ no regen buffs, no regen items, and no drink we all have a base power regen. This base power regen is a % of your total power pool. In Combat regen is approximately 1% of your power pool per tick, while Out of Combat regen is approximately 4% of your power pool per tick. (i.e. 2000 power = in combat base regen of 20, out of combat base regen of 80) So w/ out adding any other forms of regen into the equation, moving from an in combat situation to an out of combat state increases your regen roughly 4 fold. Master 1 Insight currently gives 60 power per tick, depending on the amount of power one has (>2000) out of combat regen provides an increase equal to or greater than our most potent power regen spell. Adding now the effects of drink on power regen --- according to the provisioner boards, T5 player crafted drinks provide 75 power per tick, and as we all know this regen only occurs out of combat. Out of combat regen coupled w/ proper tier'd player crafted drinks is infinitely more potent than in combat regen. I agree w/ zitha in that 90% of the time engagements w/ encounter's do not last long enough for our power regen spell lines to make a difference, and in these situations it's more important for each group member to have a max power pool great enough to be able to outlast the duration of the engagement (using every ability given to them - mindful of aggro of course). If each group member has enough max power to outlast the duration of engagements, than illusionist power regen spells are not useful at all for increasing group DPS, or group longevity....for as soon as the encounter has been destroyed and the group enters "out of combat" state, (coupled w/ the proper tier'd drink) the natural base regen + drink regen is much greater than any power regen spell. Out of combat regen in this game is amazing, and this is why Illusionist power regen lines were initially released w/ a 3 minute duration. Our regen is not needed in the out of combat state, and the game was initially designed so that we would have to use some strategy as to when and whom we buffed w/ power regen. It was unreasonable for enchanter's to have to keep 3 minute buffs up on 6 people constantly. I don't think the initial intention of SoE was to force illusionist's into so much constant buffing but rather to cast 1 or 2 breeze buffs every other fight or so. Keeping power regen up on a few people, not the whole group. In most situations "a larger power pool" > "a more potent power regen". Consequently, "a larger power pool" actually increases ones power regen already. Though the value of power regen can change based upon the group dynamic and the type of content attempted. It's actually quite amusing that power regen becomes more important in approximately the exact same instances Mezz becomes most useful. By this i mean; a standard full group of 6 attempting a Group x 2 encounter of appropriate con level a small group of 4 especially 3 attempting some Group x 1 named MoB's of appropriate con level, or relatively tough heroic con's for the small group's tank's level I find that these are the situations where illusionists really shine. Our CC is much more useful, and our power regen becomes extremely useful. Like mezz, illusionist power regen in well built 6 person groups does not provide as great of a benefit as we had all hoped it did. As most 6 person groups attempting appropriate conned heroic encounters will have a cumulative power pool large enough to pump out the required DPS to defeat the encounter, moving forward to take advantage of EQ2's extreme out of combat power regen capabilities. Likewise there is a % of EQ2 where power regen and mezz both become very useful.
Why God why?! It is very boring to buffbot then go on to toss mind numbingly boring and weak DPS at a mob. We don't even have any cool illusions or anything. The fun factor of this class is poor. I do not like your thinking. 1. Armor is DPS cause if you need less healing your priest can cast direct damage spells! 2. Rezzing is DPS cause a fallen hero brought back to life can attack a monster rather then lay in the dirt! 3. Drink is DPS cause it adds to your power pool so casters can cast more! CONSIDERING PRIESTS CAN SUMMON DRINK, REZZ AND ADD ARMOR BUFFS, SHOULD THEY EVEN BE ALLOWED ANY KIND OF DIRECT DAMAGE SPELLS? SHOULD THEY EVEN BE ALLOWED TO USE A MELEE WEAPON? AFTER ALL, JUST LIKE OUR BREEZE, THEY CAN ADD SO MUCH DPS IN OTHER WAYS!
Yes I wrote a big post and my login timed out and because when your login times out you loose everything in this window, I lost my long post. So I am going to write it again, but condensed. Yes I am level 50, theres a cool thing out there called ww.eq2players.com you should check it out sometime. I play high-end game, so that is my POV, if your 31 and argueing with me, well that means nothing because they really are 2 different worlds. So, if you feel your DPS at 31 sucks, just let it be known it gets better at 50. Alright, the reason there are three selections is beause I was changing range and the parser started up and stopped. So as you can see I was not in range of the mob for the first minute and a half which made my DPS take a bit of a hit, so assuming I had been in range the entire fight you are looking at closer to 100 dps, give or take some resists., on a level 55 mob (thats a yellow con for you non 50's out there). Rogues were 120-180, melee were 100-150 and magicians and wizards were close to 200 factoring in pets (for conjurers). Most people take offense to my considering breeze a DPS contributer, well basically, here my mentallity, if you want to know the DPS of a class, you ahve to take into consideration every little thing that will contribute towards that. Done one class at a time, and its doable. I certainly see here what I alone (not included haste or breeze or Dynamism) can do, and assuming I take whats his names rather poor estimate of a breeze/legerity DPS improvement of 20 DPS, then I am already scaring rogues. So do I complain, I sure do not., and neither should you, because this is what your looking at. Oh yea and I freakin owned the Coercer by well over 30 DPS. He musta been slacking. Also, in terms of raiding (and in a *GOOD* grind group, I.E. people who know how to burn power and thus good DPS), lets look at power regen versus max power. Guy A) 3000 POWER and 30 POWER PER TICK REGEN (30 power per 6 seconds) in combat Guy B) 2500 POWER and 90 POWER PER TICK REGEN (90 power per 6 seconds) in combat Assuming a 1 minute fight Guy A has an Effective power of 3000 + (30 * (60 / 6)) = 3300 Guy B has an Effective power of 2500 + (90 * (60 / 6)) = 3400 Assuming a 20 minute raid mob Guy A has an Effective power of 3000 + (30 * ((25 * 60) / 6) = 3000 + 7500 = 10500 Guy B has an Effective power of 2500 + (90 * ((25 * 60) / 6) = 2500 + 22500 = 25000 The longer the fight, the more useful power regen becomes. Now two illusionist, two templars two whatevers (of the same level) are not going to have a difference of power on the magnitude of 500, and certainly not more then that, so the closer they become in max power the more the one with the better regen becomes the one with the most effective power. Now I am aware your fights at level 30 or whatever might not even last a minute, but a double up lvl 50 xp mob can take < 1 minute with only the most skilled group. And on a named or raid mob which there are a butload of its gonna take way longer then a minute, so if your going to base your entire toon on xp mobs, go ahead, but its a bad idea. In a 1 minute fight neither guy is gonna burn 3.3k power, but heavens forbid something goes awry and the fight is now 3 minutes long, you get adds whatever, something keeps you in combat, guy B is gonna have pwoer while guy A wont. WHY? because of the power regen. Go ahead max your power, and when you cant handle a tough situation because your OOP, tell em its cause max power is so much better then regen. When you are out of power and wishing you could drop that 90 power skill, enjoy waiting 18 seconds instead of 6. I will always concede at lower levels your prolly not gonna run out of power, but when your in the high-end game (and that is where you end up eventually), power regen is what matters not max power. Oh and for raiding in-combat is what you want For grinding, in-combat is helpful, out of combat is equally helpful because if your in a good grind group, there is no downtime Anyhow, chew on that for awhile Edit: oh yea, and what does power regen do for soloing, I am not even going to Dignify this question with an answer. Ok...I will, When i soloed for fun, I almost always ran out of power, maybe I sucked at soloing maybe not, but I sure as heck always made sure i was breezed and power regen buffed best I could because every ounce of power I had for that fight could determine whether I died or not. Edit 2: Its unforunate that this has deteriotated to me explaining end-game DPS and Power regen, but I guess I should have mentioned in my initial post, that I am an end-gamer, so this is what applys there. Message Edited by Eater on 04-20-2005 11:22 PM Message Edited by Eater on 04-21-2005 12:38 AM
Mind if I choose the figures? Guy A has power 100,000 regen 10 Guy B has power 1000 regen 100 Assuming a 1 minute fight Guy A has an Effective power of 100,000 + (10 * (60 / 6)) = 100,100 Guy B has an Effective power of 1000 + (100 * (60 / 6)) = 2000 Assuming a 20 minute raid mob Guy A has an Effective power of 100,000 + (10 * ((20 * 60) / 6) = 100,000 + 2000 = 102,000 Guy B has an Effective power of 1000 + (100 * ((20 * 60) / 6) = 1000 + 20,000 = 21,000 We can all pull figures out of the hat to show this one way or another. There is no point in stating one or the other is more important. They are both important in different circumstances. Saying one is always better than the other is nonsense. Add to which stating that something is a cardinal rule and then showing an artificial example which at best applies to a dozen fights in the game makes your rule seem more than a little silly. As I understand it you are actually saying that regen is more important than pool on very long fights. So I guess the corollary is that it is less important on the other 99.9% of fights. Which means that for myself and over 90% of enchanters pool > regen.
I decided to provide one example why even in a raid regen is not necessarily greater than pool size. Assume a mob with 250K health and 10K per tick regen. Further you can rustle up exactly 10 DPS. To make things simple we will assume that the rest of the raid does only a tiny DPS such that if the DPS classes can get the mob close to zero health it is dead. The DPS classes we will average out as doing 2000 damage each per tick and using 200 power each to do this. Okay 2 cases... Case 1 the DPS have pool 2,000 and in combat regen 100 each. Case 2 the DPS have pool 4,000 and in combat regen 50 each. Which if any kill the mob ? In case 1 allowing for the regen the DPS go OOP after 19 ticks and thereafter do half DPS. Thats 380,000 damage followed by 10K DPS. After 19 ticks the mob effectively has ( 250,000 + 19 * 10,000 ) - 380,000 hp. That is 60K hp so oops no good. In case 2 the DPS go OOP after 26 ticks and thereafter do a quarter of their DPS. Thats 520,000 damage followed by 5K DPS. The mob after 26 ticks has ( 250,000 + 26 * 10,000 ) - 520,000 = DEAD. So even for raiders regen is not everything. There will be mobs which particular raid groups have to kill fast or they will never die. There will be others that must be killed fast because if they are not then the healers will go OOP. In both cases pool MAY be greater than regen. Incidentally, for those that do not see it. In case 2 the DPS people did 20,000 per tick; end of fight. regen for next. In case 1 the mob not only did not die but the DPS people started at 20,000 per tick and dies away to 10,000 per tick. In case 2, if people get back to full power in less then 26 ticks and kill another mob the same way then their DPS will be greater than10K per tick. What importance does this have? Well consider a chain pulling group. Their DPS is limited by their in combat regen. Pull mobs that use up power too fast and they cannot keep up. A group that pauses between pulls is limited by a mixture of thei in combat regen and their out of combat regen. The bigger their pools the longer they can stay in continuous combat. The larger their out of combat regen the faster they are ready for more.
Eater SS post of Statalyzer shows a fight starting at 12:44:12 and ending at 12:50:47. If I do my math right that's 6 minutes 35seconds or 395 seconds. During that time he/she did 805+4,034+20,120 damage for a total of 24,959. 24,959 / 395 seconds is 63.18 DPS. Meanwhile (but we can't see it on the SS) he's claiming. So the Illusionist did 1/2 to 1/3 of the damage of a rogue. So the Illusionist did 30% of the damage of a wizard. So the Illusionist did about 40'ish% to 60'ish% of the damage of a tank In my opinion this is a pretty good example of why Illusionists need DPS improvements. We should be coming in about 140 DPS for this fight. That's still 60 DPS less then a wizard, yet better then some rogues, worse then others. Better then most all tanks. The perfect place to be. Message Edited by KaltenAlThor on 04-21-2005 07:00 AM
Eater I am playing lvl 50 coercer with legenendary/heritage gear with fair share of raiding and I been lvl 50 for months... Lets start look on practical pircture not on theoretical shall we? Warlock lvl 50 with mostly Adept 3 and few Masters 1 do on epic mob 502DPS SUSTEINED, few warlocks claimed that they hit mark around 700 (very special circumstances needless to say but none the less susteined DPS was that high).. Zerks that are TANKS per se sustein closer to 350 DPS, SK in DPS mode sustein 200DPS and now look at your 63-80DPS depending on how you calculate it, well as a coercer with halth Adept 3 and halth Master 1 offensive spells I can more or less relaible in DPS mode sustein 90-100DPS TOP (and that's pushing very hard) SK in TANK mode sustein 132-160DPS depending on fight, I dont want even start about Zerks or Brawlers - we FAR behind em\ Seen we reached consensus that power rengeneration dont do a jack for DPS you can safely assume that DPS of coercer is 1/5 of DPS warlock and about 1/2 DPS of tank... same goes for illusionist Enchanters to be "in game" or at least counts as DPS class need to score closer to 250-300DPS susteined DPS and you do 1/5-1/3 of it
Gee Eater, thanks for proving that we need a DPS boost. Our DPS is even worse then I thought. p.s. Since drink regens power, do you go around claiming drinks are DPS? :smileywink:
Ok Encanta, at least I was being realistic here, good luck obtaining 100,000 max power, i dont know what game your playing, but its not EQ2.
