What are Enchanters expected to do in groups/raids?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Lovestar, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Quick question then - I have heard that coercer do same with melee DPS as Illy do with mage DPS... Group wide Velocity should add DPS nicely?
  2. Gnomad_Madgon Active Member

  3. Ucala Well-Known Member

    really in the endgame now, you are probably best doing a raid with 4 illies. and no coercers.
    unless the fight has a known power drain.

    illies probably dps more, give the groups more dps.
  4. Rondo9 Active Member

    I'm sure some assassin's/T1 dps would disagree with you, I know our assassin has a hell of the time with agro without link. But yes coercer are really not needed in a raid and with the amount of double cast that can be obtained illy's arent far behind.
  5. Ucala Well-Known Member

    in non endgame guilds that might be true. but in endgame I am sure a MT could hold without a coercer and just a bunch of syngerism
  6. Koko Well-Known Member

    Two white adornments >> coercer class. ='(
    The detaunt positional proc can never trigger as AAs one shot DPS.
    Power regen skills, in general, are lackluster compared to consumable items.
    Their one redeeming quality, coercive shout, is limited when compared with fighter threat generation tools (e.g. grave sacrament).

    It becomes difficult to justify running a coercer over a secondary (or tertiary) fighter. More damage, more utility, easier to coordinate (i.e. I need threat I hit button vs. I need threat I tell you to hit button). For the record, I also dislike illusionists.
  7. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Wow this a really sad picture .. so basically coercer in the end game degraded to mana-**** with occasional coercive shout for raids ... I assume thou that coercer still shine as a solo class in the end game? (providing he can find decent nuking pet and have master+ level of charm)
  8. Gregore Active Member

    Still out parsing Illys on most fights. Parses all over the place due to mimicry targets and having to rebuff for deaths and such, but regularly parsing between 10 and 20 million in AOM/RC/Fabled raid zones. 23 mil was my best parse to date, that I'm aware of. Don't have a parser, so dependent on other raiders to post the parses in raid chat. I like using rangers and our swashy MA for my mimicry target. They're less spike damage than the mages, and requires less coordination. My mimicry sends them a tell when I hit it. Set up for forced spell/range with warped screw earring for more spell WPN damage. Have just over 50% doublecast and flurry with current gear. I've been averaging 5th or 6th on the parse for a while now, while still bringing all the utility of a Swiss Army knife!
  9. Stabaholic Active Member

    Mimicry is OP as hell right now. I would recommend you use it on the briggy at the beginning of the fight. They spike super hard in the first 15 seconds because they usually pop their temps during the countdown to pull. If a dirge has the bow it's a good secondary after 20 seconds. Dirges and brigs parses always go up the longer the fight lasts so they are great mimicry targets for consistent parses. But rangers will give the best bang for your buck.
  10. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    How about warlocks? or you have to be in same group for mimic?
    Lare likes this.
  11. dirgenoobforreal Well-Known Member

    In my opinion Illys have been rendered "useless" if you look at the role they were intended to have.

    They were supposed to buff individual mages and priests and making sure they would not run out of power.
    At the same time they were supposed to control the fight with their various mesm and CC.

    Both of these things are pretty much gone. Hardly anyone uses CC anymore, no one really ever runs out of mana and Savante, Manatap, Absorb magic are on our hotbars, but they are used extremely rarely.

    In my opinion enchanters are one of those "meh" classes right now. They have too look at them, just as they announced they are looking into beastlords. Right now we are just a buffbot, with passives, a few spells and then we do as much damage as possible and don't worry much about power management at all

    Chanters should be fighting the BLUE bars (both on bosses and group members) and helping improving the raids DPS, not having big DPS numbers or trying to kill stuff as fast as possible

    Controlling the flow of the fight with our CC would also be a welcome change.
  12. Lare Active Member

    just took the dust of my coercer and geared it over the last week. They have changed since the last time I raided on it. Guess most classes have.

    Kinda hard for me to get groups at the moment so have been doing the AS zones on alts to level greens. finding they can mass pull most of the stuff and one shot it even in crap gear. kinda been fun just doing that,

    With their 2 new fast casting aoe nukes I can aoe faster than my alt warlock unless I have increments. Been doing some nice 40 to 50m parses with the coercer on the trash. ( I know bored!)

    That said

    my main warlock kinda pointless to do the zones as everything melts.

    In raids

    I noticed a significant difference in Pulling agro without the PL. I still tend to pull it even on singles (with it) but we have enough deagro's to manage but it does make a difference.

    With Mimicry targets it really comes down to skill of the target and knowing how they dps during the fight. But the numbers ive seen some of the chanters rip off on those mass AoE fights keeps things interesting!

    The role of chanters has changed and coercer are less needed especially closer to the end expansion when fights are knows and its just a DPS fest.

    Gone are the days when it was the difference between a good coercer dual mana flowing 2 groups while power feeding the main tank continously while dpsing and trying to ward your pet so it doesn't die to the AOE or ward the shaman.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  13. Kraeref Well-Known Member

    If there is a good dirge with vc in a group and a good mage in a raid for mimicry coercers pull dps equal to illys or even outparse them. And not only their counterparts but other t2 classes.
    And even without a dirge coercers can deliver good damage in all endgame fights in this expac. And I don't even talk about blinding shock.
    So dear all. Please don't dismiss coercers that easily.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  14. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    So guys - can anyone post decent set for AA for coercer (double cast specs)?
  15. Kraeref Well-Known Member

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  16. Malachy Well-Known Member

    You have passive buffs. Honestly they aren't every good thanks to ABSURDLY high gear stats. Unless they adjust buffs to be of consequence compared to gear stats, we're talking less than 5% benefit in dps.

    If coercer, you actively manipulate power if there's a need, stun mobs if healers need help and dps.
    If illy, Time Warp, perhaps manaflow one member, stun mobs if healers need help and dps.

    It's the class all the auto-follow AFK'rs love to play since we really aren't expected to do anything. The difference between an amazing chanter and a very bad one is hardly noticeable in 99% of game content.
  17. Azhurial New Member

    This is a great example of why chanters are fine atm, there are so many lazy badies that play them people just assume they are a bad class. People need to learn how to push buttons instead of /afk
  18. heebu Member



    Flurry 65 DC 50 Hybrid setting

  19. Carynn Well-Known Member

    1+M points of damage > 0 points of damage. So even if the class doesn't out parse other classes, as long as the chanter is playing and not /afk, it's worthwhile. Plus, if you like the class, it's fun to play no matter how well or not well you do.
  20. Azian Well-Known Member

    All I can say is that my experience is pretty much polar opposite to this ^^ unless you are maybe referring to the TLE server. Chanter passive buffs are pretty lackluster these days on live with a few exceptions. Not pushing buttons a chanter would be terrible...TERRIBLE. However, actively played and with a good mimic target (yes, it's part of their package these days so it should be maximized) chanters can do very solid dps in their own right. IMO Chanters haven't been remotely close to a "buff bot" since KoS and the first AA tree. They are very busy casters (not saying hard, but busy).
    Lare likes this.