What are Enchanters expected to do in groups/raids?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Lovestar, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. Lovestar Active Member

    I think I've got a handle on what people are expecting when any other class is taken to groups:
    • All Fighters: You will Tank. Don't argue, just get moving and hold aggro.
    • All Priests: You will Heal. If you contribute some nice DPS, even better, but you're there to Heal. Don't argue.
    • Predators: Blow stuff up to an extreme degree.
    • Rogues: Hurt stuff (?)
    • Bards: Hurt stuff while providing powerful buffs everyone wants
    • Summoners: Blow stuff up while your pet blows stuff up even more, for a combined extreme degree of stuff-blowing-up.
    • Sorcerers: Blow stuff up to an extreme degree.
    I don't quite "get" Enchanters' role, though. They seem to have a kind-of scattered / disjointed mix of abilities:
    • Some damage spells
    • A lot of CC
    • A lot of Threat control
    • A lot of Power management
    • A pet
    • Some strong ally-enhancing buffs
    • An AA line that makes them sort-of Melee DPS (?)
    I have gathered from Google that once upon a time, Enchanters were there as a "support" class controlling mobs / etc. But also that the current game (like most MMOs) has mostly moved away from that role.

    Sooooo... what do Enchanters do now? Like, if someone's making a PUG and they recruit an Enchanter, what are they expecting from you?

    Is it just DPS, like the other Mages? Or is it more like a Bard, where you spend your time hurting stuff, but you're really there because of the buffs you provide?
  2. Kraeref Well-Known Member

    Provide buffs, charm in some heroics, powerfeed if needed and dps if you can, mezz or stun if a fight requires, interrupt if needed but all in all chanters are not really neccessary at all in raids or groups. Which is really sad b/c I love to play my two chanters :)
  3. Regolas Well-Known Member

    It's like a bard. You're really there for the buffs you provide that make others better. Good dps is a definite plus though.

    I'm not really sure how much "extra" the buffs provide to a group and whether that is worth sacrificing at least 50% of the dps from one toon (ie if you took a T1 dps class instead, they generally can do at least double the dps of a good enchanter, excluding charm pets). I guess each class gains different amounts.

    Lets say a T1 dps is averaging 2m dps and a good chanter is doing 1m, that means your other 5 classes need to average an extra 200k from chanter buffs to make it worthwhile taking them over the dps class. I doubt anyone thinks that deeply about it and requests one in the group due to mentality conditioning that you need the holy trinity of tank, healer and utility.

    But having a chanter does give a little more versatility. Power feed especially.
  4. Kurei Hitaka Well-Known Member

    To be fair though, if we start going w/ that kind of logic, every group is going to be a tank, a healer, and 4 sins :p
    Kraeref likes this.
  5. Malleria Well-Known Member

    Chanters give buffs, dps, power feed. Their buffs haven't held up as well as bards, but still useful. Power feed hasn't been as useful lately as it has in the past. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a few power draining fights in the next expac.
  6. Kurei Hitaka Well-Known Member

    Kinda hoping we get a lot more CC needing fights as well lol. My illy is still about 80% from 95 because I don't see much of a reason to play it personally, when my brig's all geared up and stuff :/. CC would be the dealbreaker for me though.
  7. Elite Active Member

    It's really a shame because Chanters used to play an integral role in a balanced group/raid.
  8. Kurei Hitaka Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I remember back in RoK and I think it was...TSO? We almost always needed one or two chanters b/c some fights, even group ones, practically demanded it. Lots of power drain and CC intensive stuff back then.

    Oh well, at least if the priest is stifled, Illy can cure them....XD
  9. Galorif New Member

    In my honest opinion... Anyone, in raid, that sacrifices a chanter for 1 more t1 dps is neglecting the power feed.
    I've been in fights where raids were saved by chanters and dirges (sorry troubs). Yeah chanters are not t1 dps, but what they offer is greater than t1 dps.
    gingham likes this.
  10. silamdarr Member

    They still do... They improve the DPS output of their groups by quite a bit. Compare a group with an enchanter and set that group up without one and see the difference in their DPS output.

    Plus, there are quite a few raid mechanics in certain fights that make enchanters a must. They are the only class that can realistically power feed a group on fights where power drains and managing power is a priority.
    gingham and Panick like this.
  11. Ucala0 New Member

    it's quite strange really.
    I have been in groups with a chanter and groups without a chanter. (I am the chanter when I am in groups with a chanter).
    chanters don't really have to powerfeed 99% of the time anymore, but their buffs keep your power in the 90-100% range on their own. and when you are in groups without chanters you can really see the difference most times about how much power you actually use :p
    Kraeref likes this.
  12. Lare Active Member

    Both enchanter classes brings buffs to the GRP like a bard however they are completely different.

    The Illy is more focused for mage grps and makes a significant difference to a loc or wizards parse.

    Time Warp, EV are just 2 abilities and buffs that they bring. Their job is to make the mage dps look good while doing damage themselves.

    Coercer, has hate management and power regen and tend to end up in a melee grp, They are the best in game most of the time for power regen.

    They do have EV and other buffs that help the grp and can dps.

    Their job is to bring power, hate transfer and stability to the grp.

    Both classes are utility like a bard but different.

    I would hate to raid without my illy or troub in grp they make a significant difference to parsing well.
  13. Lovestar Active Member

    TY for all the detailed replies guys, very educational. Definitely understand the design of these 2 classes a lot more now. ^.^
  14. Cleaner Active Member

    just an example from what i have seen
    We have 2 raid teams a Main Raid team and a lower enlisted raid team
    the ungeared or "enlisted" raid team is where i noticed the biggest difference as they only have potent / fabled gear.

    The Main Raid team has alot of Clickys that substitute those buffs so the difference is not as noticeable without the buffs.
    the mage group itself (worst group setup ever i know)

    Single target fight

    Necro------2.6 MiL
    Necro------4 MiL

    Grand Total of =14MIL

    Now with one Necro Swaped out for Illy -SAME FIGHT, Same Gear.

    Warlock 3.9 Mil
    Wizard 3.2 Mil
    Conj 2.8 Mil
    Illy 1.1 Mil
    Necro with TC---5.8 MiL

    Grand Total =16 MIL

    Now with a Troubadour and ILLY Same Fight Same Gear- Single Target

    Warlock (UT) 4.3 MiL
    Wizard (TC) 3.4 MIL
    ConJ 3.2 MIL
    illy 1.2 MiL
    Trouby 1.8MiL
    Necro (Buffed) 5.6 MIL

    Total= 19.5 MIL
    Key is knowing who gets what buffs
    the Warlock ALWAYS gets UT
    Wizzard SHOULD always get TC
    Conj will get buffed from bard and illys other buffs
    Necro Depending on gear and how they reforge (Melee) will get EV, and Synergism.
    The group must know how to use Temp buffs and Timewarp rotations as well.
    Best case senario is when wizard and warlocks increments are up Troub warms up VC's timewarp and ET goes active.
    SO you see here with the lesser geared folks there is alot more noticeable difference.
    so yea if someone wont drop a 2-3mil dps for an illy they are an idiot.
    Panick and Mitten like this.
  15. Azian Well-Known Member

    Third example is missing heals.

    Edit to add an off topic question. Are you often finding the necro at the top single target? A necro is my newest alt and I do find it quite solid on single target (although I suck at AE fights.)
  16. Morfydd Active Member

    As the immortal Goldfinger said, "No, Mr. Enchanter, I expect you to die!"

    Sorry - have always wanted to use that line...

    I remember the old days back in EQ1 - a group without an enchanter or a shaman was severely gimped and would find high level fights very challenging. Enchanters ruled the groups in those days - cc, power feed, and a slow almost as good as a shaman's made them highly sought after. They were such a pain to solo level - the supply was not very great. If you got one in your group, you went for the highest level content the group could handle and you didn't leave the group until the Enchanter did.
  17. Lovestar Active Member

    Very interesting. So an Enchanter is about sacrificing some of their own potential to increase everyone else's by much more than the personal loss.

    Not for someone who wants to be a meter-topping superhero or blow things up, but good for someone who likes the reward / challenge of properly managing everyone else's performance and keeping the group in good shape while everyone else does their thing.

    Kind of a Healer, but instead of restoring Health bars, they "heal" DPS meters, Threat positions, and Power bars.

    Plus strong CC if / when it's ever needed.
  18. Morfydd Active Member

    Very nice summary, Lovestar. Enchanters are nice - they just aren't the gods they once were in old style EQ1.
  19. Gregore Active Member

    My best toon is a coercer, Gregore on Guk. I casually raid twice a week with him and am usually 4th or 5th on the parse with average parses over 2mil. I also regen power, drastically control hate management, provide a group wide multi-attack/CB buff, provide one lucky group member with my EV buff, and bring 4 more groupwide buffs with 4 of the 5 purple runes I'm currently rocking on this toon. I can also stun and mez if needed and snap agro if things go south. I bring a lot to raids when I play this toon.
    Alenna likes this.
  20. arturos Active Member

    I have on many occasions with my coercer been the lynch pin that pushes my guilds raid train forward in quite a few fights in TOV raid content. with the ability to mez some mobs added in the ability to assist tanks with holding agro and the power feeds. Lastly the ability to interrupt raid mobs on a consistent basis. Are we the kaboom in the raid no are we the stability? perhaps. But we can be the reason that a raid force progresses. If you find yourself not being that reason, study your class tinker with an encounter learn to be.