WARLOCK'S GRAB YOUR ANKLES.... here comes another mass-nerf from the Devs!

So several threads have been started about the up and coming LU 24...

What makes me sad is all the freakin fan boys trying to make the best of another pounding on Warlocks by the devs, sticking their noses right up in there so they are as brown as possible.

Devastion Line - First the multiple nerfs to the stun duraiton, now the complete removal NOT to mention they ninja'd the target limit when KOS came out and never had the balls to own up to it... (and this being the only encoutner AE in the game with a limit)

Gas Cloud Line - Stun has been nerfed down to 1.5 seconds, ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? How many spells are we able to toss in 1.5secs? Jack and Crap come to mind...

Interfernce Line - Take special notice that Wizards are getting an "aggro reducation" and Warlocks are getting a "SLIGHT encounter agro reduction" nevermind the fact that the vast flipping majority of taunts in the game are single target with lower recast times..

Rift - The moajority of end game group encoutners have 3 mobs in them... so lets compare this to the wizards 13-14K x3 to our 3-4k x3, yet another example of devs not realizing how the games content severely limits AE effectiveness. Well now the knock down effect is being made worthless as well....

Dark Siphoning Line - 3s reduction... are you kidding me? Its still worthless!!! A summoner can summon hearts/shards to 24 people in the raid, which they can use three times each... and they NEVER have to stop to cast this during a fight. So lets do the math 24x3x... 6x... err nevermind the number is over 10 so I doubt the Devs could comprehend it anyhow.

So Lets talk about Wizard Spells that arn't getting touched:

Nimbus Aurora - Wizards get a MEZ which isn't being touched in the control LU.
Ice Nova - The stun component of this spell is not being removed!!!

This isn't to mention the vast difference in group buffs, debuffs, etc...etc.....etc

The fact is the last time a Dev even posted in the Warlock forums was Blackguard telling us our Dark Broodlings had been fixed, and even then he was wrong they went on being broken for a few more months. I honestly don't think there is even a Dev assigned to work on Warlocks as there are Devs assigned to work on other classes, and if there is the poor bastard is either stuck with us AND the class he /she wants to be working on, or he/she is completely lazy and can't be bothered to read the forums of the class he/she is working on to get an idea of how BADLY they are messing up. Should I mention the complete lack of a Warlock Class hat as dropped loot? Just another small example... Or that we can't even get posts stickied in our forums.... Or... Nevermind....

So what should we do? We should complain, it works for the other classes.... they Devs have shown a clear history that complaining is the only way to get noticed and the more aggresive and the more offense the complaints the more attention a class gets, just look at Enchanters and all the complaining they did about being worthless on raids (which any Enchanter who couldn't figure out what to do on a raid cause they couldn't stun/mez mobs needs to go play WoW because they are obviously not very bright.) What else should we do? We should work to educate or shut the fan boys up who want to come in here and play like everything is alright... that the constant nerfs are fine and good for us, that want to pretend like we are getting any attention as a class.....

Now I realize this post is a "tad" hostile, buts thats the point. Apparently the Devs can't be bothered to respond to any post that resembles civility.... so maybe a post calling them out for the complete inattention to Warlocks will work.



Message Edited by Daelomdel on 05-15-2006 10:44 AM

So you are proposing that wizards should be nerfed as well ? The root nerf we are getting
is major enough already without you warlocks calling for more :smileymad:

Um yeah and we getting the same nerfs to our roots as well. But yes having stun on deva/apoc is nice and helps like it does on your ice comet if they nerf one they should nerf the other.

Read it again please, at no point in the OP's statement does it say that wizards should be nerfed because we have been. All that is happening is a comparison between Wizard and Warlock spells that are meant to be our equals and which have been nerfed and which haven't. FYI our roots have been hit just as hard as wizards roots.

Warlocks get shafted harder than any other class in terms of nerfs and we are in no way over powered. SOE have made a couple of home runs with the Nerf bat at our expense since LU13, half of them they have never owned up to or where in the update notes we just found them when we played. I dread every LU nowadays and search for the words saying "Warlock Changes". Our stuns made up for our lack of utility compared to other high end DPS classes and could often save a group by keeping the mobs stunned for 5 or 6 seconds so the healers could catch up.

I fully agree with the OP, the Devs need to give us an answer to all the large questions that have been asked on the boards in the past months or they at least needs to tell us what the plan is for us. No reply from Devs in months is very bad and just shows how ignored we are, when we post about these issues in the combat forums or others they either get closed or moved and no one looks at them still.


Comparison...(Not a comparison calling for nerfs or anything, just to show how much attention other classes get where we get none)
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=18819

Recently in the SK forums there was a complaint about a couple of items that drop in PoA called Blade of the Deathknight and shield of the Deathknight. A Dev responded and the items had their names changed due to them having very cool names for what where not very good items. The Dev said that he would change the names so that they could be saved for future better items that maybe even SK only.

We are not asking for that much attention to our boards but one reply every so often surley wouldn't be too much to ask for...
Message Edited by Soul_Dreamer on 05-15-2006 09:08 AM

WWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

Someone lock this monkey-crap crybaby thread.

Hehe so next thing, Warlock AoE should be nerfed so that it is not better than Wizards. And then wizards DD nerfed so its not better than warlocks. Then Conjurer pets hould be nerfed again because they are still better than Sorcerer pets, and then the now nerfed Warlock/Wizard DPS should be nerfed more since its still better than Summoners .... Lol - this sort of reasoning just leads to watered down classes. :smileymad:
Feel free to point out unfair nerfs, which I believe the stun removal from your AoEs is but don't point fingers on other classes pls.

Problem here for all classes is the Devs decided a blanket nerf on all control abilities was the quick fix without actualy looking at each classes specific needs IE Sorcerers needing there stuns to keep mobs off them while rooting. I'm going out on a big limb here and hoping that the Devs will see that the majority of the community is upset about these upcoming changes and reverse or revise them in a manner consistant with each classes needs. If the summoner/ranger communities can make enough noise months back about the changes they had comming to push them back and have them reworked. I would surely think the masses of several classes vs enchanters would bare the same results problem is most of the SoE staff has been busy at E3 and not attending to real game issues as of late.

Why the hell do people get mad they are getting nerfed and then try to pass the nerfing off onto other classes? SoE needs to find a way to balance the game without pissing everyone off every patch imo. Patchs are usually something I look forward too on Daoc and Wow, why is it I want to cry whenever SoE schedules one? Somethings broke there and it isn't a class balance issue ...

If the nerfing of control abilities is subjectively applied based upon "class need", perception for many will be that SOE "hates" class A or favors class B. Particularly for non-members of the less-nerfed classes. I suspect this would be worse than the blanket nerf, as at least the blanket nerf is mostly consistent. Pretty much every class with control abilities is just as attached to their abilities and can justify their need for them, and would be just as outraged to see some other class less nerfed than them. I suspect it would be a disaster.
This way, no one is really happy, but most people are equally unhappy. It is about the only way they COULD do such a nerf, in my opinion.
Still sucks for several of my classes, of course.

LOL, someone other than players has to actually read this board for that to happen
Oh well I just bought TES IV Oblivion. That should keep me busy for a couple of months while everything is being changed, adjusted and then changed again.

I really hope they up the deagro on interference, because the current value is pathetic. But rather I would see it being made a spell that CHANGES our position in agro by a certain amount of places, like 3-5

Every day someone compares us to wizards... conjurors.. their mom's best friend... come on already. It's getting rediculous. State the problem, discuss a fix and leave the others out of it. The Devs aren't going to care about the whinning of what we don't get that others do. If you want wizard/conjuror/moms best friend skills and spells then reroll one of those.
We have problems yes... game breaking no...

Be a Warlock...

10 LU's since LU13 and we are served more nerfs. These threads rarely go far because they eventually always turn into a finger pointing session of where the nerf bat should swing next. It is unfortunate, because there are always 1 or 2 posts with good info and suggestions that get lost in the ensuing flamefest. It is a fact of gaming that some people honestly DO know how to play their class better than others of the same class. Call it skill, talent, whatever. People have their own way of playing the class. Nobody would agree on a set way. Some nerfs may completely hose one players' playstyle, while others give it a /shrug and a /yawn.

So here we have another lineup of changes (read: nerfs) and the usual stuff starts up. The Doom and Gloomers come out and scream that the sky is falling and the class is unplayable. The Finger Pointers call for nerfs to other classes so everyone suffers equally. Throw in the folks that claim you are all noobs, we are still Gods among men, stop the crying. While each of these folks may have both valid and silly points, none are 100% correct and none are 100% wrong.

These threads descend to the pit of flamefests because of one thing. Total and complete lack of communication from the Development Team on why these changes are necessary. I don't typically read many other class forums, but this one has, historically speaking, received practically zero response to issues raised by players. In the absence of that communication, players choose to hand out their interpretation of the reasons and the flames start to rise.

Since no member of the Development Team has had the temerity to come forward and state the reasons for these changes, we are left to draw our own conclusions.

Not that anyone of importance will see this list, I have a few questions (some already asked) for the Development Team:

Is this set of changes aimed at fixing the long-broken chanters?

Where IS the Warlock-only hat besides Relic and Hoo-loh? (Grand Dracomancer does not count, it's Socerer only, the lone item in T7 that IS Sorcerer only)

Will we ever get effective AE aggro control? (beyond NOT casting and/or stuffing a troub and pally in our pocket)

Will the nearly useless hp/pwr debuff, AE mana drain, and teleport spells ever be looked at to be made somewhat useful?

Is it REMOTELY possible to address any of these issues for warlocks without a swing of the nerf bat to other classes?

Oh well, it's worth a shot. I do like being a Warlock. I know many of you do also. Cheers.

1) how many people actually use the stun effect on Apocalypse as a stun? I know i sure as hell dont. Doesn't even effect epics anyways. So to me I will see 0 difference in the spell.
2) Nebula line.....the spell owned pre-combat revamps when it could stun epics...now that it cannot I use the spell as purely damage. So once again not effected by it.
3) Vulian Interference....haven't seen the stats on the deaggro....gonna log into test to check out how much it does. If its anything less than 700 it needs to be bumped up.

too lazy to read the rest of the post or what anyone else had to say....dont really care for that matter. These are my opinions and how they do not really effect me at all.

The nerf to the duration of the stun in the Nebula Line is what has me the most concerned over these updates. I use that spell every fight and I feel it is an essential part of our spell list. I can't count the times it has saved me soloing or in granting that extra time for my group to get back in the fight. And that was all due to the stun effect.
The rest of the changes that affect our abilities don't really bother me that much.
I have always felt like warlocks got the short end of the sorceror stick with Rift vs. Ice Comet and Evac vs. well...uhm...something, but that's not in anyway meant to be a "call to nerf" for the wizard. Bottom line is that it was something I just chalked up to a flaw in the class design on the part of the dev team and I have worked within what was available.
I have been happy with my warlock so far (Been playing him since LU13). I hope they leave this one spell line alone in what goes live. Otherwise, I think that the way I play the class will be less viable and fun.
just my two cents......

just had enough of constant messing around with my characters, i'm too old for this. perhaps youngsters dont mind much.

ever evolving/changing game should not mean changes to fundamental things, you already forced me to relearn warlock after LU13, now again...

/byebye
Message Edited by Astery on 05-16-2006 06:45 AM

Let me be frank - if you play a Wizard and you are in here complaing about posts Warlocks have made please [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!! And go troll your own forums...

The simple fact is this is the Warlock forums and the only place we have to voice our concerns.... what I find extremely interesting is all the Wizards that want to say "Stop comparing the two classes" yet here they are reading the Warlock forums and trolling. Wizards and Warlocks are suppose to be similiar like ALL the other "twin classes" in the game. There is suppose to be give and take and right now there is only Warlocks getting constantly pounded by the Devs. So like I said before if you don't play a Warlock [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and go troll your own forums.

The intention of my post was to call attention to the fact that Warlocks are getting pounding in the rear again, after the months of stealth nerfs, after months of Devs ignoring these forums, that eventually we as Warlocks are going to have to say WTH (what the heck) are you DEVS doing!?!


So....

WTH (what the heck) ARE YOU DEVS DOING!?!?!

My biggest gripe is that warlocks were not even mentioned in the recent annoucement by Lockeye. He is not stupid, he specifically mentioned summoners when referring to both conjurors and necromancers and only wizards when referring to sorcerers. This is even worse than the removal of the stun from apoc as it feels they are not even putting warlocks in the picture. Warlocks are feeling left out in the cold from the recent announcement.
Btw Xede, the removal of the stun from apoc and the reduction from nebula does not affect me much either as I probably raid 99% of the time (the other 1% I am farming nil crystals >_<) But not everyone in this game raids and the removal of the stun from 3s to 0 and on nebula from 4s to 1.5s is a huge blow for soloers and groupers. The usefulness of that 5.5s stun difference is tenfold from buying enough time to finish the mob/allow tank to regain aggro to saving your life.

Xede not everyone here RAIDS... im a raider and i solo alot as well, so hell yeah im pissed about the stun on apocalypse being nerfed and the stun on nebula being cut by 75%...

No offense to the wizard class but it is CLEAR from Lockeye's statement that there is a clear bias between the warlock and wizard class ( again i say Lockeye is not stupid , if he meant to say sorceror in his statement instead of Wizard the he would of say Sorceror instead of saying Wizard 4-5 times while saying Summoner 4-5 times as well )

Also even thou alot of wizard stuns got halved in duration NONE of your stuns were removed and your mez as left intact ( i dont care if they dont "work etc " its the principle that they didnt remove yours while they did our's that shows clear bias , because believe me someone took the time to look over our spells since they did some major changes to them as like the recast on nebula being shortened for the 75% stun reduction and the complete removal of the stun componant from apocalypse as well at the nerf ot the knockdown effect of rift )

so lets keep tabs...

Wizard = halved stuns, worse end of group root..

Warlocks = 2 spells had stun componant COMPLETLY removed, another one was reduced by 75%

wow thats fair indeed

WTG SoE

ps im not asking for wizards to be nerfed down somemore just trying to point out SoE playing favorites on classes