Sigh...have I chosen another screwed up class again? I had similar issues when playing a Droid Engineer in Star Wars Galaxies. I mastered the class only to find most of the droid items you could create were broken or not implemented yet. It was weks and weeks before anything was done to rectify things and then it was too little too late. Do SOE EVER learn from their mistakes? When their games come out of beta I do not expect to find myself encountering issues due to unfinished or broken content and untested/unbalanced spells. I bought this game out of beta and I'm not here to spend my subsciprtion money partaking in an "extended beta". I'm at level 22 Warlock and things are turning sour already. Time to place my pre-order for World of Warcraft on Amazon UK ready for when my free month play is up I think. See you all there. Hopefully Blizzard will provide a fresh approach to MMO gaming. SOE can't seem to shake themselves free of the errors they make and are criticised for in their past games. Innovation is what we need, not renovation of the same old same old with prettier graphics That said I must say job well done to the audio, 3D visuals and art departments on EQ2. Job well done there - very impressive. Pity about the flawed gameplay mechanics seemingly screwing it all up for many
Yea, it was really nice to log on and recieve sapping salvo. I played all day and was able to blast that, and nill one right after another. I was not really sure what game I was playing since I was doing "nuker" damage and was having a great time playing. Everything was cool, I still thought nill should have an upgrade to it's damage because of it being our second best nuke and well, just gimped to hell. I logged back in yesterday and tried to solo a blue mob in rivervale and just about got owned with salvo being on the same timer. Now, I have yet another spell that will sit in my book and never get used, and it's a good spell too. I finished up the writ I was working on and started an assasin alt to try to cheer me up. It worked.
Personally I would like to see more parses from people. I find it hard to take opinions at face value without at least SOME effort to substantiate those claims or without at least seeing that the person is basing their argument on real data rather than what they've gleaned from friends or message boards. I parse every fight and my average DPS when combining my logs at the end of each night is always above 70dps at lvl 40 using adept 3 Nil Distortion, Adept 3 Dark Pyre, Master I Steal Breath, and now our upgraded Noxious Bolt (I forget the name) that I chose as trait/whatever. I combined my log file from the last 3 days. The only person that has gone above my DPS was a level 40 wizard whos average dps from last nights group was 73dps. He also was using adept 3's What I am NOT certain of is if he was using the Icespear nuke that was just put on the same timer as his BoFs, if so then his DPS was inflated. Now unless EQcompanion is missing some area of damage like poisons from rogues etc then I really don't see the trend that people are screaming about of us not being able to keep up in DPS. Do things really get drastically different after lvl 40? I would really like to hear of some parsing done by people who ARE above lvl 40. And not just parses from Burst DPS or small samples. You need to use parsed log files covering periods of hours and combined to average out special timed abilities like the Assassin's Condemning Blade which at lvl 41 will be an added 1-1.5k of damage (on a 5 minute timer), which can be abused to inflate a parse if one was so inclined. P.S. My max hit so far is 748 with a dirge in my group using Nil Distortion. Dark Pyre adept 3 hits solidly in the 250's range and doesn't seem to have as big of a damage variance as our distortion lines. It can also hit up to 300 at lvl 40 and that's a big damage add considering how quickly you can chain it in. Sometimes I hit with Adept 3 Nil Distortion consecutively for low 400's. THAT shouldn't be happening imo, the damage variance on Nil Distortion is too large, it needs to have more cost-certainty and if there truly is a needed damage upping to our class I would rather have it in this way than a raised max hit cap. Message Edited by Kaziq on 01-08-2005 12:09 PM
I don't mind being two shot by orange ^^ or even yellow ^^ mob. I just think we should have damage that offsets our inability to take damage. It doesn't appear this is the case. At any level, why grp a pure damage dealer that can't surive aggro when you can have another class fit the role that can also take damage. I already see that as a problem when getting groups at level 25ish. I may be way off base, but I seem to notice it when "lfg".
Please add your support to this thread: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=15753&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 Edit: Can't get the link to actually link. Cut&Paste =) Message Edited by flesh on 01-11-2005 03:27 PM
I don't want Warlock to be the FOTM class like SWG became...On the other hand, I would like to be effective in combat with our nukes...
I've posted this in a few other threads, but I'm not sure if you guys have been checking those boards. I feel I am in a better position than many to discuss about the shortcomings of the warlock class and felt the need to have my thoughts shared: I haven't logged or parsed anything. I don't know what my DPS is. What I DO KNOW is that my main is a level 50 warlock. I have been level 50 for a week or so and feel that I can be of assistance for getting the sorcerer classes (wiz/warlock) fixed. Although some of you may feel insulted from some of the things I'm about to say... I'm not here to make a feel good post. I'm not here to be in the million wizard march that wants to nerf other classes and uberfy our class. I'm here because I want the game to be balanced. I want to have fun playing the game and I want to feel like I contribute to my main group and guild events. The truth is that the level 23 Wizard and Warlock DD spells, Dark Distortion and Ball of Fire (I think?) cap out in damage at level 32. The next DD spell the classes get is at level 37. Any wizard or warlock lower than level 37 complaining about their DPS is muttering utter BS. Nothing in the low level to early mid level game is broken or unbalanced. You guys are choke artists trying to get the class more strength than it should have for balance reasons. Simple as that. Its at level 37 that the problems begin. At level 37, the new DD spell (Nil Distortion and Ball of Flames) does less damage than its previous spell in the line (Dark Distortion and Ball of Fire). It costs more mana, is on the same recast timer, and does LESS damage. Ok, so the reasoning behind that is that the spell is orange and you need to level up more to get the damage to improve right? Anyone who had that train of thought is flat out ignorant. Fighter and scout abilities don't do less damage than previous ones just because they're orange, why should ours? You're using a level 23 DD spell for 14 levels, get a new one, and it does less damage... because its orange? Your DD spell damage has been capped since level 32 when the spells skill level maxes out. Thats 5 levels without a DPS increase for your main DD line, and now your new one does less damage than the level 23 one. You think about it. So now I've played it off, kept with my main group, gained a few more levels... say I'm about level 42. Nil Distortion is still doing less damage, or maybe roughly equal damage, to Dark Distortion... for over 1/3 more power cost. I am now level 42 using a level 23 DD spell. I am closing on 50% of my characters total life where I've been using the same spell for my main source of damage. Level some more, get to level 48. The pet spell Netheros is broken, does not attack or cast or do anything to be blunt. It costs mana and a nil crystal to cast... and it sits there looking goofy. Test out Nil Distortion again, oh wow! It does about 5-10% more damage for 30% more mana cost (130 compared to 181 power cost). So now I am level 48 and I am still using a level 23 DD spell as my main source of damage due to efficiency reasons because even though the level 37 DD does slightly more damage (and I is blue con now btw, not orange anymore) it is terribly inefficient with mana to even bother. Jumping ahead to level 50, my DPS goes up probably at least 20% because the level 50 DD is on a different spell timer than the previous level 23/37 DD spells. The problem is, it still only does as much damage as I expected the level 37 DD to do at level 50, and it costs tons of mana and is on an insanely long recast timer. Sure it helps some because at this point the level 23 DD seems to take almost no mana to cast, but its no where near "balanced". 20% DPS increase from level 32 to 50 is what you consider "balanced" for a DPS class? The fact is, wizard and warlock DPS simply does not improve from level 32 until level 50. That is 18 levels before any improvement in DPS whatsoever. Zip, Zero, None. Nada. No DPS increase at all. I guess you could count using the level 37 DD spells for slightly more damage a small increase... but what you add in DPS you lose in efficiency. In my opinion is that in an efficient group, the extra mana costs would end up lowering your DPS soon enough. Now lets add to these facts some others. I'm not sure how this effects wizards, but for warlocks things get even worse. Sure our DPS doesnt increase for 18 levels, and our level 48 pet spell is broken.... but we do not have evac, the adept for our level 50 DD does not drop in the game as far as I'm concerned (everyone knows that Ice Comet drops), the highest sage on my server isn't even level 30 yet (I've never seen one at least) because the tradeskill is nearly impossible to level, and level 50 group 2x encounters drop equipment for level 42 characters. Bracelets in Runnyeye off single group encounters in the mid 30s drop level 44 required items. WHAT IS SOE THINKING? Grey mobs in a dungeon we hunted in over 15 levels ago drop higher level items than in Permafrost and Solusek's Eye? All I can possibly think of to say is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? Nothing is wrong with wizards before level 37. Its after that the problems start. I have my friends and guild members to thank for making it as far as I have. God knows what its going to be like in the next month before SOE realizes how badly wizards and warlocks are in the higher levels and actually take action to improve it. Godspeed to all of you still trying to level and get groups until then, you're going to need all the help you can get. Yuengling Lager of Invictus Level 50 Warlock Innothule Server
Your post makes the problems very clear. Thanks for taking the time to write all that out. What would be your personal suggestions for fixing it? Just increase damage on Nil Distortion? What about the Blaze and Suffocating Breath line? Does the Blaze line end after the horrifically useless Hemia's? Does the Suffocating Breath upgrade scale appropriately? I'm only 26 myself but there's no way I'm going to focus on levelling my Warlock if this is what I've got to look forward to. Why does Dark Disortion cap out at level 32? That means we have 5 levels with zero improvements to our dps without taking into account the level 37+ problems... How much damage does Noxious Bolt do? Is Dark Emanations just an upgrade to Incinerate? It just seems to me we need more clearly defined spell lines. I'm not really sure what upgrades or doesn't stack with what just looking at the OGaming spell list.
Yup I hit 37 This morning. Was very disapointed to see my shiny new Nil Distortion Adept I doing much much much less damage than Dark Dist Adept III and Bellegere's. Its rediculous that i'll have to wait until the high mid 40's for it to out damage a lvl 30 and 33 spell
Spell Name Min Dmg Max Dmg Hits Total Avg All Time High Dark Emanations 45 80 1017 50844 49.99 81 Incinerate 14 30 609 13992 22.98 30 Steal Breath 72 104 1117 100816 90.26 104 Dark Distortion 170 618 666 307818 462.19 618 Suffocating Breath 53 287 681 132818 195.03 287 Noxious Bolt 79 184 435 60641 139.40 185 Aura of Darkness 70 88 16 1243 77.69 88 Frozen Manacles 61 85 7 481 68.71 85 Everything at Adept1, Dark Distortion at Adept3, Steal Breath at Master1. Started parsing I think for a 2 or 3 days in Rivervale, lvl 36. Blaze line ended when you became a Warlock I think. And no, Dark E is not an upgrade for Incinerate, they stack. Was grouped in RV with a 37 warlock who has the Nil Dis Adept 3. Not much difference in damage and through total damage done (I dont trust dps, just looked at total damage done), I do slightly more if not comparable damage. Which is kinda screwed up when ya see Nil Dis Ad3 and Dark Dis Ad3 doing the same average damage. *sigh* Message Edited by DarkSyphon on 01-13-2005 07:30 AM
OK... I have a 36 Warlock, and i feel like commenting... Prior to getting to lvl 23 i was really worried that i chose the wrong profession, Wizard seemed to be the big DD one. When i hit lvl 23, i had Adept1 DarkDistortion waiting for me, and slapped it on some Mobs and was doing really nice damage. Late 20's Wizards were hitting on average much higher than my Dark Distortion, however they had very few debuffs and Dots. When i slapped my Debuffs and Dots on the mob and started nuking, i was doing LOADS more dmg to the mobs than the Wizard who was getting resists frequently. After that big patch, i was slightly annoyed that : - All my HP > MP conversions are on the same timer - Bellengeres Sapping Salvo does more dmg than Dark Dist but are on the same timer + doesn't count for Highest Magical Hit on EQ2Players.com What i notice now : - Warlocks use a hell of alot of Power, to just to say match the dmg output of a Wizard using less Power. - Warlocks when fully debuffed the mob will get sufficiently less resists than a Wizard will. - Warlocks kill named mobs easier in group situations than Wizards. What i am looking forward to : - Nil Distortion ... - The Group Mob to Power Conversion Spell So in short, Wizards do big damage, but are resisted more frequently. They use less Power per Damage inflicted, however they need to fire more times due to Resists which just about comes on par with the Warlock needing to debuff and apply dots in terms of Power and Dmg.
Read it and weep, there is nothing to debate anymore. Feel free to stick your head in the sand and pretend this doesn't exist. I've discovered the real problem with the tier2 and later spells (for all classes.) It obviously affects the casters most since they don't get increases from weapons like the melee classes do. Still it's a problem for everyone. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=17531 Message Edited by killzone on 01-13-2005 08:31 AM
Deja vu... I really thought i'd left this all behind when i quit EQ1. I played a high end shadowknight for 4 years and class balancing was what ultimately caused me to stop playing. I wanted to create a character in EQ2 that would be exempt from this, be fun to play, and ultimately scale well in power. I've recently levelled my Warlock to 24 and it seems to me, i've reached a pinnacle of power, as all I have to look forward to now is a copy and paste of spells I already own. I really didn't want to make a negative post, the reason why all of us chose this class was based on the potential we saw in it. I'm really tempted to shelve the warlock until this extended beta is over, or start a guardian or assassin.
All I have said was 1. People have been complaning since lvl 20....true. 2. I am happy with my Warlock....true. Something wrong with stating that?
Whats also true is that you haven't reached a high enough level to be experiencing or make valid comments on the problems those of us with sincere arguments are complaining about.
The only complaints at level 20 were from before they fixed dark distortion. During beta they balanced Ball of Fire AFTER it was already copied to Ball of Flames. Apparently they didn't fix dark distortion. All that complaining as you call it went away. There is a difference between complaining and pointing out errors. I suppose if we all lived in your world we would all be driving cars with different size wheels and doors which don't fit properly. But hey, I'm happy with my lopsided car so don't you complain about it.
Well, thats were your wrong, *I* am totally happy with my KIA, I know one day, maybe we would get a BMW. But for now, its better then catching the bus. The thing is, SOE knows whats going down......they just dont care to fix it. I do also how that someday they *fix* us. But, In the mean time I will try to look on the bright side and hope for the best. I really really hate thinking "hmm maybe I should reroll" "hmm maybe I should ditch my warlock and make another character" ya know? I have always loved this class and always will, even if it has "4 diffrent wheels" . Message Edited by WaachBack on 01-13-2005 02:14 PM
This is an extremely precise post from someone's who been there and done that...tks Male I am closing in on 40 and getting anxiety attacks from what I've been reading ! I dont know if it will take them long to give us some help...but I hope the mods or devs have read this and are looking into the situation.
