Ward of Elements (a little feedback)

Noaani wrote:

Noaani, you as always thinking you know everything, Digg was a challenge b/cos his script didnt work, you couldnt be rezzed if you died, unkillable = challenge no?
and before he got changed 2-3 times there was a huge dps requirement for the fight, meaning it was totally gear related, not so any more. they just need to down tune the last few mobs and the zone will be perfect for its intended audience.
yes yes you are totally right man, im just some idiot that parroted stuff id been told /rolls eyes. not even worth my time to explain to you. id suggest you try and speak to some people that raided with me in my guild, or when i was a raid leader before you spout some more dribble.

They've already nerfed WoE numerous times since it was patched in.

EasternKing wrote:

Seriously... huh?
Whats the dps requirement to kill aiden with only 3 adds durring his flyout sequence?
I'll give you a hint, its less than what the fire elemental requires...
You speak about alot of things in absolutes that are simply not absolute.

Gage wrote:

that is true, just need to fix aiden now and it will be fine.

EasternKing wrote:

The idea with that is, don't die.
To any raid with gear above T2 shard gear, he was easy the day he was released. If anything, it was easier then than it is now, as then, all you needed to worry about was the snake, both the badger and mushroom were easily ignored. Its a pain to do now without doing both the snake and badger, though not at all hard to do them both.
The "huge DPS requirement" for this fight, in the form he was on the day it hit live, was a massive 25k.
As to speaking to people in your guild, I don't need to. You had trouble trying to figure out Digg, nothing they could say would tell me any more than that.

Noaani wrote:

can you read english?
Diggs script did not work, i cannot say that any clearer to you, the snake did nothing, if you died you got a perma effect on you preventing you from being rezzed, you died instantly if you got rezzed. ie it did not work.
as for ther 25k dont talk rubbish now it may be 25k when it was first added it was well above that amount, we both know it, do i need to go find the posts in this thread and the other quoting 40-60k dps?
yeah man u got me i couldnt even work out how to kill a bugged mob that was unkillable, i must suck so hard. keep talking clown.

I actually liked the effect where you can't res. The script is actually super easy once you figure it out therefore the hardest part is not being an idiot and getting yourself killed. Too bad they took that out and now t3h suck can kill him.
Digg was a test of skill and the casual players will need to step up a lil for fat lewtz

EasternKing wrote:

have you tried aiden now since they changed the adds from ^^^ to ^^ like i suggested? And they also made it so you dont have to bounce from tornato to tornato?
I honestly think the encounter is exactly where it should be for t2/heroic/WOE progressing raidforce. It will still be quite a challenge for this type of raidforce but if they get the rock blocking down and can stop at least 3 portals they should be able to do it.
We went in there last night with x4 TSO instance raid gear and mythicals and we didnt even worry too much about blocking portals and we were able to do it. We blocked 1 portal or none most of the time. If we concentrated on blocking portals more it would have been a complete cakewalk. And it SHOULD be for a raidforce with our type of gear/experiance if we followed the script 100% correctly.
The only thing i may suggest for the lower end geared players to have an easier time is to give them a bit more time to kill the adds b4 aiden comes back (or make them depop). But honestly right now i think it is totally doable as long as they all put on their A game and get at least 3 portals blocked every time. Also stopping healers from being able to get ported might help.

EasternKing wrote:

The script DID work.
The only big problem with Dig on immediate release was that -IF- you died, you couldnt be rezzed during the fight.
But that was very easily avoided by NOT DYING.

Using the snake DID work at release. Just the proc didn't last very long.
However, your asinine claims that Digg was unkillable are completely wrong. May have been unkillable to your avatar-geared **** toon, but he sure as heck wasnt unkillable to my non-avatar geared groups.

Noaani wrote:

Actually when it was first released the snake was broken and didn't always work. We had a few people go in and do over 50k dps on him and it still healed up even with people doing the snake.

EasternKing wrote:

You needed to work on your placement.
Or you sould just blame the script I guess...

Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:

We had a pull where the snake did nothing, then we put it in the propper place and the mob died.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

No, I'm sorry, its not about be being a parse queen. I've done this zone both as a Mystic and an Illusionist, and I've always thought that this fight was the worst, most boring, uninteresting, and STUPID fight in the zone. Its not challenging at all. Its just obnoxious, and as far as I can tell, mostly punishes mages. We had 2 wizards, an illy and a coercer, a shadow knight and pally, 2 bards and 4 healers in our raid last night. You know who topped the parse in that fight? The Shadow Knight. You know what he parsed? 2100. You know what the wizards parsed? 4th with 1900, and 5th with 1300 (he died a few times...). There is something really really really wrong with that.
I'm not asking that it be made easier, because its not a difficult fight. Its just counter-productive how they decided to add difficulty by punishing players. I absolutely detest that method of difficulty. The problem with this fight is that there is no way to remove this difficulty like there is in other fights (ie. the elemental detrimental on switchmaster which can be cured to remove the damage penalty). It is just there, and we have to just deal with it.
In a raid that an average of 50k dps on all the other nameds up to Captain Grush, to get their dps nerfed to 15k is STUPID. We even did 35k dps on Aiden, and people are ported away in that fight! There is no way around this dps punishment, and it unfairly punishes one set of dps over another (casters over melee). This isn't a case of an obstacle that can be overcome, it is an obstacle that you have to stand there and wait for 10+ minutes for it to just fall over and die out of sheer boredom. I can't even imagine how long this fight would take for the raids that are puting out 15-25k average on the first three nameds.
P.S. Once again, Atan, I must remind you that I am more than entitled to state my opinion here without you cyber-stalking me to tell me I'm wrong.

Malachani wrote:

The fight is mildly frustrating but I don't mind it too much.
Look at the encounter though, the adds have a constant resistance to magic damage, the name himself has a buff that fluctuates wildly.
Put your melee on the adds, and the casters on the name. When he fluctuates there is a short period where some magic types hit very high. Also he switches from being divine resistant, to heat resistant, to poison resistant, etc. Utilizing iceshape, and other similar abilities for this fight when he's on the right resistances will affect your mage parses. Of course mages waiting for their resistant type to be beneficial for their dps runs will affect it.
And, don't flatter yourself, I'm not stalking you, I've just been very active in these threads Also, I don't think I ever said you were 'wrong'. I'm only offering my opinion as well.
All in all, I think the zone was just designed with as many different styles of encounters as possible, and I think it adds nice flavor and variety to the zone.

Malachani wrote:

It's a long fight but there's nothing wrong with it. Why do you care where the damage comes from as long as you kill it and get the loot? If they give him 10x as many hps and took away the resistances would it make you happy to see larger numbers on the graphs in ACT?
This is hardly the first mob that restricts DPS on him. At least on Captain Crunch you can try to go all out with your dps. Other fights (like Nexona or the x2 crab in Mara) that try to limit DPS have a lot more nasty side effects if you go nuts with your DPS.

Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:

No I wouldn't be happy if he had 10 times more hps, because it would still be a horribly boring mob that offers no challenge except if you can stay awake for the 10-15 minutes it takes to kill him. I don't mind long fights, mind you, as long as its an ENGAGING long fight (like Nexona). A just plain endurance fight, where all you do for 15 minutes is spam your spells/CA's/heals if need be is not a challenge, its not fun, its boring.
There is no side effect for going nuts on your dps with Captain Grush. I mean you simply can't. It is a punishment put on the raid that CANNOT be overcome in any way. Nerfing dps has been in scripts before, like Switchmaster, but it can be cured off. And its not a case of limiting dps to prevent failure conditions, as you can't ramp up the dps to cause them even if you wanted to. Its a simply heavy-handed way to make an "endurance fight" that amounts to making it a horribly horribly boring and uninteresting fight.

Noaani wrote:

It could have been composition too. As I'm sure you're aware, the snake gave a buff for a melee proc only which counteracted the snake's healing by 5%. So the more melee heavy you were, the more odds are of 20 procs to reduce healing to zero, and if a group was caster heavy or whatever or didn't have people that could proc fast they might get 4-5 procs during the duration and not really notice the healing being cut down by 20-25%.
As I'm sure you're aware, since it only took me a single pull to figure that out and adjust accordingly.

Apos wrote:

This could only be attributed to lack of understanding/figuring out the encounter. If everyone other than the people getting the badger/snake (and potentially your healers, if your badger fetcher isn't on to it) are meleeing the name, then you have enough meleeswings to do what is needed. To make it easier, everyone needs to be in melee range of this mob so they should have been melee'ing reguardless.

Malachani wrote:

How else would you go about making an endurance fight?
This zone is a test of almost every facet of a raid. You need strong AE hate/DPS, you need strong single target DPS, you need people to follow a script, you need people to understand positioning, you need resists, you need people to think on their feet. This mob is about not losing concerntration, or the ability to stick to a task for an extended period of time without failing too much at it (for an appropriatly geared raid, a TSO raid geared raid need not pay any attention to this fight at all tbh).
As a pure DPS though, this fight is actually kinda fun. Its basically like a giant training dummy, where I can go absolutly nuts. The fact that the numbers I get at the end are lower than what I normally get is insignificant.

Noaani wrote:

Well sure, but melee classes would proc it faster, so he'd heal less, so you wouldn't need as much dps. Of course everyone should have been auto attacking, but the rate they got onto the named was important, so it was dumb to not go for as much procs as you could get as fast as you could get them.