Ward of Elements (a little feedback)

ARCHIVED-Malachani · Apr 19, 2009

Noaani wrote:

“Malachani wrote:

“Its a simply heavy-handed way to make an "endurance fight" that amounts to making it a horribly horribly boring and uninteresting fight.”

How else would you go about making an endurance fight?
This zone is a test of almost every facet of a raid. You need strong AE hate/DPS, you need strong single target DPS, you need people to follow a script, you need people to understand positioning, you need resists, you need people to think on their feet. This mob is about not losing concerntration, or the ability to stick to a task for an extended period of time without failing too much at it (for an appropriatly geared raid, a TSO raid geared raid need not pay any attention to this fight at all tbh).”

Are we talking about the same mob? Because the extent of "positioning" is just keeping the squishies far away, there is no script whatsoever with this mob unless you count a brief respite in crappy dps a script, and I'm not sure what thinking is required other than concentrating on not falling asleep during this snooze fest.

ARCHIVED-Noaani · Apr 19, 2009

Malachani wrote:

“Noaani wrote:

“Malachani wrote:

“Its a simply heavy-handed way to make an "endurance fight" that amounts to making it a horribly horribly boring and uninteresting fight.”

How else would you go about making an endurance fight?
This zone is a test of almost every facet of a raid. You need strong AE hate/DPS, you need strong single target DPS, you need people to follow a script, you need people to understand positioning, you need resists, you need people to think on their feet. This mob is about not losing concerntration, or the ability to stick to a task for an extended period of time without failing too much at it (for an appropriatly geared raid, a TSO raid geared raid need not pay any attention to this fight at all tbh).”

Are we talking about the same mob? Because the extent of "positioning" is just keeping the squishies far away, there is no script whatsoever with this mob unless you count a brief respite in crappy dps a script, and I'm not sure what thinking is required other than concentrating on not falling asleep during this snooze fest.”

Reading ftw.

ARCHIVED-Yimway · Apr 20, 2009

Apos wrote:

“Noaani wrote:

“This could only be attributed to lack of understanding/figuring out the encounter. If everyone other than the people getting the badger/snake (and potentially your healers, if your badger fetcher isn't on to it) are meleeing the name, then you have enough meleeswings to do what is needed. To make it easier, everyone needs to be in melee range of this mob so they should have been melee'ing reguardless.”

Well sure, but melee classes would proc it faster, so he'd heal less, so you wouldn't need as much dps. Of course everyone should have been auto attacking, but the rate they got onto the named was important, so it was dumb to not go for as much procs as you could get as fast as you could get them.”

Caster heavy is not a problem as long as everyone is meleeing. Did this last night on my dirge and the only melee in raid was zerker, dirge, ranger. Still would get 8-10 ticks of the 'snake' on Digg.
We failed 2x on fights that each lasted over 20 mins each. Then we switched the totem placer to someone that understood instructions and followed them correctly and it died in about a 7 min fight.

ARCHIVED-urgthock · Apr 20, 2009

Well, we did this encounter yesterday afternoon and after 30 mins of fighting Digg (3 times) we gave up. We managed to slowly whittle him down to 60 2-3 times each fight but everytime he called for snake, he would just slowly heal up to about 75-78 percent and start calling for mushroom again (even with EVERYONE autoattacking to try to get the snake proc on him asap). I am starting to think we may be positioning the totems incorrectly since only the mushroom totem seemed to actually effect him. No one could seem to get hits on him without getting the arcane reactive on them when we were in the badger phase and the snake totem never seemed to do anything at all... This is a very frustrating fight. Anyone have any suggestions on where to place these totems to actually get them to work? Badger was placed at his feet, mushroom was placed about 1 foot to his left and snake was also place about 1 foot to his left. Thank you in advance for any advice.

ARCHIVED-Yimway · Apr 20, 2009

urgthock wrote:

“Well, we did this encounter yesterday afternoon and after 30 mins of fighting Digg (3 times) we gave up. We managed to slowly whittle him down to 60 2-3 times each fight but everytime he called for snake, he would just slowly heal up to about 75-78 percent and start calling for mushroom again (even with EVERYONE autoattacking to try to get the snake proc on him asap). I am starting to think we may be positioning the totems incorrectly since only the mushroom totem seemed to actually effect him. No one could seem to get hits on him without getting the arcane reactive on them when we were in the badger phase and the snake totem never seemed to do anything at all... This is a very frustrating fight. Anyone have any suggestions on where to place these totems to actually get them to work? Badger was placed at his feet, mushroom was placed about 1 foot to his left and snake was also place about 1 foot to his left. Thank you in advance for any advice.”

This is just my perceived effects of the totems.
Badger - Removes the reactive damage component of the elemental stiffle. With the badger placed you can attack him down thru the badger phase. Without the bader placed you take ~2k damage every time you hit him. Toggling attacks on and off, and using 'big attacks' only is the key to this phase. There is no data point to know if badger is placed right or not. It is important to do as much dps as your healers can keep up with on you taking the penalty to get this phase down quickly. I've been in groups where we only had 1 badger call, and others that took 8. Just depends on the makeup of your raid, and if you have spike dps or spam dps classes.
He will constantly call badger until his health drops below 80, and which point he will call mushroom.
Mushroom - About 5-8s after he calls mushroom a non-curable noxious will hit the raid party. It will tick for moderate damage with a higher final hit on expiration. If the mushroom is placed properly, there is an icon in your effects window that will show up when you proc the 'protection of the mushroom'. When you proc it, the uncurable noxious is removed. This is a simple dps phase providing you are getting the totem
He will constantly call mushroom between 60-80 health, once below 60 he will call snake.
Snake - Snake when placed properly will put a red skull like poison icon in your maintained window, and any autoattack swing will add the debuff to Digg. Each count of the debuff lowers Digg's healing ability by 5%, You should be able to get 8-12 ticks of that on him durring the heal phase. You must dps as hard as possible in this phase to out pace his heal. If the snake totem is not placed properly he will quickly heal back over 60% and go back to mushroom. You will know if the totem is placed properly by watching your maintained bar.
Once below 40% he switched totems more rapidly. I've not identified if it follows a set patern at every 5% or 10%, from 40 to 0. I've just not paid that much attention. Just follow the same standard procedure as he calls the different things from 40 to 0.
Its key to grasp that the totems are providing YOUR raid buffs, not that the totems are debuffing digg. This should help you in choosing how to position your raid force and what to do with totems.
Now, with all that I shared here, even if something I've observed isn't 100% accurate, I don't think anyone should have too much trouble reading this and getting the encounter done.

ARCHIVED-urgthock · Apr 20, 2009

Atan@Unrest wrote:

“urgthock wrote:

“Well, we did this encounter yesterday afternoon and after 30 mins of fighting Digg (3 times) we gave up. We managed to slowly whittle him down to 60 2-3 times each fight but everytime he called for snake, he would just slowly heal up to about 75-78 percent and start calling for mushroom again (even with EVERYONE autoattacking to try to get the snake proc on him asap). I am starting to think we may be positioning the totems incorrectly since only the mushroom totem seemed to actually effect him. No one could seem to get hits on him without getting the arcane reactive on them when we were in the badger phase and the snake totem never seemed to do anything at all... This is a very frustrating fight. Anyone have any suggestions on where to place these totems to actually get them to work? Badger was placed at his feet, mushroom was placed about 1 foot to his left and snake was also place about 1 foot to his left. Thank you in advance for any advice.”

This is just my perceived effects of the totems.
Badger - Removes the reactive damage component of the elemental stiffle. With the badger placed you can attack him down thru the badger phase. Without the bader placed you take ~2k damage every time you hit him. Toggling attacks on and off, and using 'big attacks' only is the key to this phase. There is no data point to know if badger is placed right or not. It is important to do as much dps as your healers can keep up with on you taking the penalty to get this phase down quickly. I've been in groups where we only had 1 badger call, and others that took 8. Just depends on the makeup of your raid, and if you have spike dps or spam dps classes.
He will constantly call badger until his health drops below 80, and which point he will call mushroom.
Mushroom - About 5-8s after he calls mushroom a non-curable noxious will hit the raid party. It will tick for moderate damage with a higher final hit on expiration. If the mushroom is placed properly, there is an icon in your effects window that will show up when you proc the 'protection of the mushroom'. When you proc it, the uncurable noxious is removed. This is a simple dps phase providing you are getting the totem
He will constantly call mushroom between 60-80 health, once below 60 he will call snake.
Snake - Snake when placed properly will put a red skull like poison icon in your maintained window, and any autoattack swing will add the debuff to Digg. Each count of the debuff lowers Digg's healing ability by 5%, You should be able to get 8-12 ticks of that on him durring the heal phase. You must dps as hard as possible in this phase to out pace his heal. If the snake totem is not placed properly he will quickly heal back over 60% and go back to mushroom. You will know if the totem is placed properly by watching your maintained bar.
Once below 40% he switched totems more rapidly. I've not identified if it follows a set patern at every 5% or 10%, from 40 to 0. I've just not paid that much attention. Just follow the same standard procedure as he calls the different things from 40 to 0.
Its key to grasp that the totems are providing YOUR raid buffs, not that the totems are debuffing digg. This should help you in choosing how to position your raid force and what to do with totems.
Now, with all that I shared here, even if something I've observed isn't 100% accurate, I don't think anyone should have too much trouble reading this and getting the encounter done.”

Thanks again Atan. Hopefully we can get this fight down soon and move on to the other mobs we will be stuck on for a while. LOL

ARCHIVED-Yimway · Apr 20, 2009

urgthock wrote:

“Thanks again Atan. Hopefully we can get this fight down soon and move on to the other mobs we will be stuck on for a while. LOL”

Heh, np. Progression is fun that way.
Dunno if its something to look forward to or not, but zoned in to the x4 with just the 2 groups that just finished it and got disco off trash fabled loot.
The x4 trash are easily killed by 2 groups that can beat WoE.

ARCHIVED-DrkOmen · Apr 20, 2009

For Digg, here's a tip.
As Atan said the toems give your raid a buff, but only if the members of your raid are close to the totem after its placed. So no need to place it "on him" or at his feet, they dont even have to be looking at him.

ARCHIVED-Thunndar316 · Apr 22, 2009

Atan@Unrest wrote:

“This is just my perceived effects of the totems.
Badger - Removes the reactive damage component of the elemental stiffle. With the badger placed you can attack him down thru the badger phase. Without the bader placed you take ~2k damage every time you hit him. Toggling attacks on and off, and using 'big attacks' only is the key to this phase. There is no data point to know if badger is placed right or not. It is important to do as much dps as your healers can keep up with on you taking the penalty to get this phase down quickly. I've been in groups where we only had 1 badger call, and others that took 8. Just depends on the makeup of your raid, and if you have spike dps or spam dps classes.
He will constantly call badger until his health drops below 80, and which point he will call mushroom.
Mushroom - About 5-8s after he calls mushroom a non-curable noxious will hit the raid party. It will tick for moderate damage with a higher final hit on expiration. If the mushroom is placed properly, there is an icon in your effects window that will show up when you proc the 'protection of the mushroom'. When you proc it, the uncurable noxious is removed. This is a simple dps phase providing you are getting the totem
He will constantly call mushroom between 60-80 health, once below 60 he will call snake.
Snake - Snake when placed properly will put a red skull like poison icon in your maintained window, and any autoattack swing will add the debuff to Digg. Each count of the debuff lowers Digg's healing ability by 5%, You should be able to get 8-12 ticks of that on him durring the heal phase. You must dps as hard as possible in this phase to out pace his heal. If the snake totem is not placed properly he will quickly heal back over 60% and go back to mushroom. You will know if the totem is placed properly by watching your maintained bar.
Once below 40% he switched totems more rapidly. I've not identified if it follows a set patern at every 5% or 10%, from 40 to 0. I've just not paid that much attention. Just follow the same standard procedure as he calls the different things from 40 to 0.
Its key to grasp that the totems are providing YOUR raid buffs, not that the totems are debuffing digg. This should help you in choosing how to position your raid force and what to do with totems.
Now, with all that I shared here, even if something I've observed isn't 100% accurate, I don't think anyone should have too much trouble reading this and getting the encounter done.”

This is like trying to study for finals or something. Gives me a damned headache to even look at that ridiculous list of information needed to win the encounter.
I just want to play the damn game and have fun. Is this mind numbing garbage really fun for you people?

ARCHIVED-Noaani · Apr 22, 2009

Atan@Unrest wrote:

“Why exactly?
So the fight takes just as long but you still keep your parse spot?
Beyond that, I'm just not seeing why, so educate me please.”

I usually still top the parse on this fight, the reason I want to see the change I mentioned is so that I can use this mob as a gear test.
I would treat it basically like a giant training dummy, allowing for raid buffs and debuffs.

ARCHIVED-Nebbeny · Apr 22, 2009

Thunndar316 wrote:

“This is like trying to study for finals or something. Gives me a damned headache to even look at that ridiculous list of information needed to win the encounter.
I just want to play the damn game and have fun. Is this mind numbing garbage really fun for you people?”

I also want to play the damn game and have fun. To me "Tank and spank" isn't the meaning of fun, challenge is fun for me. Whether intellectual challenge, your skill at playing the game challenge or simply making it harder on yourself for more reward.
While Atan's posts have been VERY helpful, there is still alot you have to figure out for youselves and planning in the zone that requires thought. I've really enjoyed playing through this zone and look forward to doing so again! (Just cleared it last night for the first time, our guilds MT is very happy with his new shoulders which were also disco on the server heh)

ARCHIVED-Noaani · Apr 22, 2009

Thunndar316 wrote:

“Atan@Unrest wrote:

“This is just my perceived effects of the totems.
Badger - Removes the reactive damage component of the elemental stiffle. With the badger placed you can attack him down thru the badger phase. Without the bader placed you take ~2k damage every time you hit him. Toggling attacks on and off, and using 'big attacks' only is the key to this phase. There is no data point to know if badger is placed right or not. It is important to do as much dps as your healers can keep up with on you taking the penalty to get this phase down quickly. I've been in groups where we only had 1 badger call, and others that took 8. Just depends on the makeup of your raid, and if you have spike dps or spam dps classes.
He will constantly call badger until his health drops below 80, and which point he will call mushroom.
Mushroom - About 5-8s after he calls mushroom a non-curable noxious will hit the raid party. It will tick for moderate damage with a higher final hit on expiration. If the mushroom is placed properly, there is an icon in your effects window that will show up when you proc the 'protection of the mushroom'. When you proc it, the uncurable noxious is removed. This is a simple dps phase providing you are getting the totem
He will constantly call mushroom between 60-80 health, once below 60 he will call snake.
Snake - Snake when placed properly will put a red skull like poison icon in your maintained window, and any autoattack swing will add the debuff to Digg. Each count of the debuff lowers Digg's healing ability by 5%, You should be able to get 8-12 ticks of that on him durring the heal phase. You must dps as hard as possible in this phase to out pace his heal. If the snake totem is not placed properly he will quickly heal back over 60% and go back to mushroom. You will know if the totem is placed properly by watching your maintained bar.
Once below 40% he switched totems more rapidly. I've not identified if it follows a set patern at every 5% or 10%, from 40 to 0. I've just not paid that much attention. Just follow the same standard procedure as he calls the different things from 40 to 0.
Its key to grasp that the totems are providing YOUR raid buffs, not that the totems are debuffing digg. This should help you in choosing how to position your raid force and what to do with totems.
Now, with all that I shared here, even if something I've observed isn't 100% accurate, I don't think anyone should have too much trouble reading this and getting the encounter done.”

This is like trying to study for finals or something. Gives me a damned headache to even look at that ridiculous list of information needed to win the encounter.
I just want to play the damn game and have fun. Is this mind numbing garbage really fun for you people?”

Yes it is.
I'll shorten it for you though... when the mob calls badger, mushroom or snake, grab the appropriate item and place it at your raid.
Simple, isn't it?

ARCHIVED-Yimway · Apr 23, 2009

Noaani wrote:

“Atan@Unrest wrote:

“Why exactly?
So the fight takes just as long but you still keep your parse spot?
Beyond that, I'm just not seeing why, so educate me please.”

I usually still top the parse on this fight, the reason I want to see the change I mentioned is so that I can use this mob as a gear test.
I would treat it basically like a giant training dummy, allowing for raid buffs and debuffs.”

OK yeah, some mob somewhere like that would be nice.

ARCHIVED-Yimway · Apr 23, 2009

Nebbeny wrote:

“While Atan's posts have been VERY helpful, there is still alot you have to figure out for youselves and planning in the zone that requires thought. I've really enjoyed playing through this zone and look forward to doing so again! (Just cleared it last night for the first time, our guilds MT is very happy with his new shoulders which were also disco on the server heh)”

Gratz guys.
I don't normally post strat information on content so fresh, but in the case of this highly scripted zone being attempted by more casual less raid experienced players, I've posted data on specific tips those casual folks have had trouble with. The zone should be challenging and fun to give you a taste of what doing the x4 stuff is like.
I really enjoy WoE, and I highly recommend it to anyone.

ARCHIVED-Kiara · Apr 23, 2009

Let's try to keep on topic please.
If anyone really feels the need to debate points of logic, send a PM.
Thank you.

ARCHIVED-Gungo · Apr 23, 2009

Noaani wrote:

“Malachani wrote:

“Its a simply heavy-handed way to make an "endurance fight" that amounts to making it a horribly horribly boring and uninteresting fight.”

How else would you go about making an endurance fight?
This zone is a test of almost every facet of a raid. You need strong AE hate/DPS, you need strong single target DPS, you need people to follow a script, you need people to understand positioning, you need resists, you need people to think on their feet. This mob is about not losing concerntration, or the ability to stick to a task for an extended period of time without failing too much at it (for an appropriatly geared raid, a TSO raid geared raid need not pay any attention to this fight at all tbh).
As a pure DPS though, this fight is actually kinda fun. Its basically like a giant training dummy, where I can go absolutly nuts. The fact that the numbers I get at the end are lower than what I normally get is insignificant.”

I would make it so that one add takes 25% less melee dps and one add takes 25% less magic damage.
I would fix it so that the encounter doesnt leash so easily and that you need to seperate the adds from the named.
While any add is alive the named takes 75% less damage.
When the adds are near the named they take 75% less damage overall.
You have to sperate the 2 adds from the named.
In addition each add will mem wipe every ~45secs to the person tanking the named.
So basically if you have all the adds and named bunched up the ecnounter is exactly the same as it is now and is a pure endurance fight.

If you seperate the adds from the named at least 10m then you can kill the adds quicker and then the named. Still an endurance fight but less fluff and a bit more skilled.

ARCHIVED-Thunndar316 · Apr 23, 2009

Atan@Unrest wrote:

“Nebbeny wrote:

“While Atan's posts have been VERY helpful, there is still alot you have to figure out for youselves and planning in the zone that requires thought. I've really enjoyed playing through this zone and look forward to doing so again! (Just cleared it last night for the first time, our guilds MT is very happy with his new shoulders which were also disco on the server heh)”

Gratz guys.
I don't normally post strat information on content so fresh, but in the case of this highly scripted zone being attempted by more casual less raid experienced players, I've posted data on specific tips those casual folks have had trouble with. The zone should be challenging and fun to give you a taste of what doing the x4 stuff is like.
I really enjoy WoE, and I highly recommend it to anyone.”

Don't think I will persue the X4 anymore. This kind of gameplay is not fun at all. Id rather play Tetris on the gameboy

ARCHIVED-Thunndar316 · Apr 23, 2009

Noaani wrote:

“Thunndar316 wrote:

“Atan@Unrest wrote:

“This is just my perceived effects of the totems.
Badger - Removes the reactive damage component of the elemental stiffle. With the badger placed you can attack him down thru the badger phase. Without the bader placed you take ~2k damage every time you hit him. Toggling attacks on and off, and using 'big attacks' only is the key to this phase. There is no data point to know if badger is placed right or not. It is important to do as much dps as your healers can keep up with on you taking the penalty to get this phase down quickly. I've been in groups where we only had 1 badger call, and others that took 8. Just depends on the makeup of your raid, and if you have spike dps or spam dps classes.
He will constantly call badger until his health drops below 80, and which point he will call mushroom.
Mushroom - About 5-8s after he calls mushroom a non-curable noxious will hit the raid party. It will tick for moderate damage with a higher final hit on expiration. If the mushroom is placed properly, there is an icon in your effects window that will show up when you proc the 'protection of the mushroom'. When you proc it, the uncurable noxious is removed. This is a simple dps phase providing you are getting the totem
He will constantly call mushroom between 60-80 health, once below 60 he will call snake.
Snake - Snake when placed properly will put a red skull like poison icon in your maintained window, and any autoattack swing will add the debuff to Digg. Each count of the debuff lowers Digg's healing ability by 5%, You should be able to get 8-12 ticks of that on him durring the heal phase. You must dps as hard as possible in this phase to out pace his heal. If the snake totem is not placed properly he will quickly heal back over 60% and go back to mushroom. You will know if the totem is placed properly by watching your maintained bar.
Once below 40% he switched totems more rapidly. I've not identified if it follows a set patern at every 5% or 10%, from 40 to 0. I've just not paid that much attention. Just follow the same standard procedure as he calls the different things from 40 to 0.
Its key to grasp that the totems are providing YOUR raid buffs, not that the totems are debuffing digg. This should help you in choosing how to position your raid force and what to do with totems.
Now, with all that I shared here, even if something I've observed isn't 100% accurate, I don't think anyone should have too much trouble reading this and getting the encounter done.”

This is like trying to study for finals or something. Gives me a damned headache to even look at that ridiculous list of information needed to win the encounter.
I just want to play the damn game and have fun. Is this mind numbing garbage really fun for you people?”

Yes it is.
I'll shorten it for you though... when the mob calls badger, mushroom or snake, grab the appropriate item and place it at your raid.
Simple, isn't it?”

Yes it has always been my dream of playing in an Epic battle where we are moving house items.

ARCHIVED-Lleren · Apr 23, 2009

I guess you hate the seige quipment in a few other games as well then? I think they meant for Diggs to be funny, not as quite tough for many as he ended up.
The designers are looking for ways of making these fights fun(tm) and interesting(tm), not boring(tm)

ARCHIVED-Malachani · Apr 23, 2009

Gungo wrote:

“Noaani wrote:

“Malachani wrote:

“Its a simply heavy-handed way to make an "endurance fight" that amounts to making it a horribly horribly boring and uninteresting fight.”

How else would you go about making an endurance fight?
This zone is a test of almost every facet of a raid. You need strong AE hate/DPS, you need strong single target DPS, you need people to follow a script, you need people to understand positioning, you need resists, you need people to think on their feet. This mob is about not losing concerntration, or the ability to stick to a task for an extended period of time without failing too much at it (for an appropriatly geared raid, a TSO raid geared raid need not pay any attention to this fight at all tbh).
As a pure DPS though, this fight is actually kinda fun. Its basically like a giant training dummy, where I can go absolutly nuts. The fact that the numbers I get at the end are lower than what I normally get is insignificant.”

I would make it so that one add takes 25% less melee dps and one add takes 25% less magic damage.
I would fix it so that the encounter doesnt leash so easily and that you need to seperate the adds from the named.
While any add is alive the named takes 75% less damage.
When the adds are near the named they take 75% less damage overall.
You have to sperate the 2 adds from the named.
In addition each add will mem wipe every ~45secs to the person tanking the named.
So basically if you have all the adds and named bunched up the ecnounter is exactly the same as it is now and is a pure endurance fight.

If you seperate the adds from the named at least 10m then you can kill the adds quicker and then the named. Still an endurance fight but less fluff and a bit more skilled.”

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ WINNER!!!!!!!
Perfect fix for this fight to make it a much more enjoyable fight.

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