Lest people forget, there's a reason there is a mitigation cap. It doesn't matter if you can combine X+Y+Z to reach it, or can reach it using only X+Y, or can sustain reaching the cap 50% or 100% of the time. The cap is there to prevent players from being able to completely trivialize an encounter, ala Pre-LU13. So stop worrying about how easily you can reach the cap or for how long you can maintain it. The combat mechanics are built around the fact that reaching the cap is possible, and encounters designed with this in mind.
Not sure I completely understand your question. My interpretation of your question is 'How do you know the true raw base value *of a CA* is not recieving bonus based on level. If my understanding of your question is correct, it's easy to highlight that CA's modify raw values and have no bonuses. Now, as a Lvl 60 Berseker stripped down, my mitigation value shows different values. One time I stripped down and it showed 40. Another time I stripped down, it showed 57. Obviously their calculations for mitigation seem to be bugged out when your nekid, probably due to some calculation with traits in regards to bonuses vs certain damage type, i.e crushing. Regardless of whatever value it was showing, when I cast my Wall of Rage(Adept1) with 660 mitigation, my mitigation % shown in game was 11%. 660/6000 = 11.0% Now, if there had been some type of bonus, I should have seen it, since I'm 60 and the spell is 55. Now, if your refering to *armor*, you can easily see that when you equip an item, your raw mitigation value goes up exactly the amount shown on the item. However, the percentage will change based on the quality. Here is a post that clearly highlights what happens to armor quality bonuses when you level: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=47459#M47459 Message Edited by Tuddar on 11-15-2005 04:31 AM
No offense -Aonein- , but it seems you havent done ANY raiding post expansion. Please refrain from commenting on stuff you have no idea and wont have any idea for another 4-5 months. I see you talking a lot of bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on these forums and in game , stuff you just making up trying to look like you have any idea what you are talking about.
Florin no sig i take it? Hmm i wonder who you could be to know me in game..... Ok for starters we raid every night when possible, and our Guardians dont even use their Wall line which is identical to ours because you obviously have no clue how easy it is to reach max mitigation raid buffed, and im suppose to be the one who has no clue Florin here remember....... Not really sure what im making up when Tuddar clearly pointed out that both Pin and myself both have a point, it did you fail to read that? Message Edited by -Aonein- on 11-15-2005 11:26 PM
Sorry i should of made myself a little more clear Tuddar, i mean when i run the claculation the same way you did im getting a 0.xxxxx number, so how do you know that its the raw value of the armors mitigation, reguardless what level you are, like you said 5500 mitigation at 55 would be 100%, 6000 at 60 = 100% etc etc, so i was wondering seeing for example 3088/5500 = 0.5214 your coming up with 52.14%. 700/5500 = 0.1272 where you have 12.72%. I guess what i am asking you is why are you removing the 0. and just saying that it is 52.14% or 12.72% when the decimal point is in the 0.5214 or 0.1272.
So how can a spell be overpowered if "is so easy to hit the cap" on mittigation? Useless should be your term, as you can say is not even used due to the fact you can get to the 80% even without it. And pls, raiding Coldtooth every night doesnt count as raid expirience. When you will grow up and start the real raiding, you will see the real use of this spell. Sometime the group setup wont let you go full mittigation. Then you will need this. Last night, i was at 5500 mittigation using this in Living Tomb raid instance. And it is a must. Lv 63^^^ x 4 snake hits between 4-6 k through 80% mittigation. Normal default piercing attack. You NEED those 36 sec of boosted mittigation so your raid has enough time to apply the debuffs. It might seem overpowered at your lv 55, fighting lv 55 mobs, but pls dont be short sighted. The game doesnt end at lv 55. the spells dont grow with level anymore.
So you guys are still only raiding Gates? You tried God King or has your guild even started progress on Access to the Inner Tomb yet? Has your guild started working on how to pop the Twin Dragons and or even tested them yet? Have you cleared out lockjaws lair? I can honestly say about the only mob i havent seen us do DoF is Terrorantula as yet. Not sure why we havent tried him because im not a raid leader...........but i will say he has been beat on our server. Anyway, from the very first post i posted i was never refering to a raid point of view, its been small group all the way. Florin i never said it wasnt a useful CA, i suggested that it may be overpowering and if anyone has followed SoE's adjustment history should of learned by now at least that anything can be changed for no reason at all when and where they want, so all im saying is just dont rely on it too much seeing as it is atm, we tank almost identically as a Guardian give or take a few defense and do DPS like a Monk. Tell me you dont think thats intended do you? What i dont understand is why are poeple still saying that Berserkers cant tank? You have got to be kidding me. Anyways, ill just hold off for awhile till i upgrade this too lvl 55 Adept III Wall of Rage and just stick with Wall of Wrath Apprentice ! seeing thats all i need right now, when i do use it that is which is hardly ever. Didnt need it before, no other Berserkers who knew how to tank didnt need it before, and Guardians didnt need it before also. Dont see why we need it know seeing as we are almost flagged for Inner Tomb now and we got this far with out it.
Aonein, your thinking is really beyond me. You claim that Wall line of CA is "way overpowered" even at app1 quality then make another claim that it will not be used on raid. If my logic is correct, you are saying that the useless Wall line of CA is "way overpowered than intended", therefore it will be adjusted in the future. :smileyvery-happy:
Ummm yes in a small group point of view its pretty strong CA and has the potential to be nerfed, in a riad point of view is basically useless seeing that with correct group set ups its not even needed. Unless you feel its needed to snare mobs movement speed then sure, what ever floats your boat. Like Pin pointed out a few posts back that this puts us on par with guardians tanking and he is 100% correct, it does, but now we do Monk style DPS and tank like a Guardian, intended? So let me ask this, if there is the possibility of a future nerf, and we had a choice, what would you chose, lose DPS to keep our Wall line mitigation or lose some mitigation of Wall line to keep DPS? Simple question, no thought required or very little at least.
Okay Taemek, as you only seem capable of writing down inaccurate numbers, with no understanding of what they mean, or their effect, I'll try to take you through it from the top. As Tuddar mentioned, mitigation values and mitigation percentages are not wholly meaningful. You cannot base many arguments on those values alone - you must also consider the level of your equipment and mobs you are fighting. In the old system it was simple. Take the mitigation value on your equipment or buff and divide by the level of the opponent you are facing. So a Cobalt BP would have been 403/60 = 6.7% mitigation against a level 60 mob, and Wall of Rage (Adept III) would have been 770/55 = 14% against a level 55 mob. But now there is an additional factor applied, comparing the level of your armour against the level of the opponent. For example, a full set of cobalt armour will provide you with roughly 2700 mitigation. This mitigation is from level 50 armour, which is good at protecting you against opponents you would face around level 50. Specifically, it will protect in roughly the same manner against opponents around level 57 (i.e. 2700/57 = 47.3%). Opponents lower than this face higher than expected mitigation, opponents higher than this face lower than expected mitigation. (Note that this is not based on your level, but is based on the level of your armour). Now notice that you do not get information back from the UI about mitigation versus different opponents - only a percentage against opponents of your level, so you don't see this effect unless you change your level. Right now, you're still sat in the sweet spot for your cobalt armour (actually receiving a small bonus to mitigation against level 55 opponents). When you are 60, you'll see the mitigation percentage versus a level 60 opponent (10 levels above your armour) and you'll see an approximate 6% penalty. And this becomes a ~20% penalty for level 65 opponents, etc. Similar modifications apply for mitigation buffs, i.e. mitigation buffs use the average level-based modifier from your armour when displaying their protection (it uses no modifier when naked). So, with all that laid out, I'll tell you that despite your cobalt set and App I T5 mitigation buffs providing you enough protection against level 55 solo Xp mobs, you will see much less protection as you gain levels and fight higher-level content. And those level 60 tank friends of yours who are seeing periods of "capped" 80% mitigation in their persona windows while raiding and claim they do not need another mitigation buff because it's useless clearly don't realise that 80% versus level 60 is only ~60% against a level 65, and down to ~40% against higher (as well as the mobs having harder base hits due to their level). Oh... also note that exactly the same system goes for resists (as they're just mitigation versus magical attacks) - low level resist gear is not adequate against high level mobs.
No, I said that our mitigation buffing is on par with Guardians - and it should be. While tanking, Guardians also have: more HP; more defense buffs; additional damage-absorbtion abilities; better single-target aggro gaining abililty; better aggro-building ability while defensive. While tanking, Berserkers have: more HP regen; better dps (particularly while offensive); better AE aggro gaining ability; And other little differences here and there. But no, DPS does not need to be traded-off against mitigation for the two classes to be well-balanced
Well Pin just goes to show you dont know everything my friend. Only two guilds have killed God King on our server and The Brotherhood is one and we got the server first for him. So yeah all our raiding in Silent city x4 / x2 zone, plus Gates, plus working on Inner Temple access plus also working on Twin Dragons must be a complete illusion and im dreaming.......:smileyindifferent: So good luck to you if you ever see inside the Inner Temple Pin, nice explanation on how the new mitigation values work now though since LU#13.
Edit: And although I don't doubt your guild is working on those epic storylines and raid zones, that does not mean YOU have been. Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on 11-15-2005 05:42 PM
Let me guess, because im level 55? Oh i see, no one would take a Berserker thats level 55 on a raid would they Pin? Did i mention i also have a level 55 Illusionist that i use when there are no Illusionists online for raids also? Plus my wife is a level 56 Templar which level difference has no meaning on a raid when you are a healer class? Oh thats right, you have to be max level before you can go and raid anything in this game, god forbid if people take anyone under max level on a raid, that must be insane......:smileyindifferent: ANWAYS Pin, no point in arguing with you, the thread is going off into the forest now, ill countine to wait to see where Wall line goes because thats simply my choice. End of story.
Anyway Pin i give up, if any thread in the game could derailed id have to pick this one. Fabricating things? Please......havent fabricated one thing in this thread, maybe misunderstood how the way mitigation bonus worked on gear was caculated after LU#13, but thats about as far as it goes.
As I said, please stop posting things which are obvious lies and exaggerations. And if you cannot put across a clear argument without doing so, honestly, it would serve you better to stop posting in these threads at all.
To step away from the flame war for a moment, I have a question that this quote reminded me of. The 80% 'capped' mitigation is obviously against a mob of equal level. But does having a higher mitigation (even though the % displayed will not exceed 80) affect your mitigation against higher lvl mobs? For example: At lvl 60, 4800 mitigation is the 'cap' against a lvl 60 mob... but would having 5000+ mitigation still have added effect against higher lvl mobs? Is the actual cap based on mob level or player level?
