With all this chatter about how nerfed we got, why is nobody saying anything about the Wall of (Fury/Wrath/Rage) changes? Am I wrong in saying it's a huge improvement? No, seriously... am i missing something? I only have Wall or Wrath (Apprentice IV), but it adds close to 500 mitigation.. and it stacks with Anarchy. I can only imagine (since I haven't seen it posted) how much Wall of Rage (Adept III) adds. IMO, the spell isn't worthless anymore. We now have the self-mitigation buff everyone was crying for when the CU hit. Am I wrong in saying that I'd trade the old 40 agility for the new 500 mitigation anyday?
I agree the only thing i'm really not happy about at the moment (besides the obvious neft to our offensive stance) is the total loss of our berserk animation...yes they completely removed it from the game.
The old "Wall" line decreased your attack speed I believe? Is this still the case? I agree that the mitigation seems much better than the extra AGI. I never used the spell before, but I may have to give it some use now.
Adept3 is 770 mitigation, which is huge. 60 agility is almost meaningless for a mitigation tank under the new system, but being able to maintain (almost constantly) over 5k mitigation is very useful.
Yes, it still decreases your attack speed (by 14% I think). Not a bad tradeoff at all if you need the mitigation though.
i absolutely love what they have done with wall of rage sometimes when xping we get a little crazy on our chain pulls and get up too 20 mobs at some points on us at once.........man i cast chaos , wall of rage, subdued rage, and insolnet gibe...........i reach over and turn up my speakers and i swear i feel like a world war 2 tank and i begin to roar...........i then go into my ae ca's and i just look up and thank god im a berserker
Im waiting to see what happens to this CA before i blow a Rare in it, its way more powerful then intended i believe seeing i can get 71.8% solo and maxed out at 80% duo on a constant basis toggling between Chaos and just Wall of Wrath at Apprentice I ( level 41 CA.) and i dont even have the lvl 54 one made up yet which is why im waiting to see what they do to it to see if the change they do eventually make to it is worthy of a rare. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 11-13-2005 10:48 PM
I do not agree that this CA is more powerful than intended. It is just right. We got toned down in dps and get a boost in defence on the wall line. At my current level 29, it works perfectly. My mitigation does not even come remotely close to 80% when using it. Spare a thought for us that is not 50++ yet and still working out way up. Just be happy that the Dev make a positive change to a CA to allow zerker to tank better. A lot of people think that bruiser/monk makes a better tank. When zerker get a CA to boost mitigation, you come here and call it "way more powerful than intended". Your coment is like calling a major nerf on a useful CA. Have you actually tested how effective with/without wall on when MTing?
You mean you can get to 71.8% solo for 30secs out of every 90secs. During that time, you have debuffed attack rating, attack speed and movement speed. And while duo, if you are cycling between Chaos and Wall of Wrath, you can have 1 up for 60secs out of every 90secs (not a constant basis), and you do NOT have 80% mitigation in any duo while only having 1 of those buffs up. But if you want to **** along using App I spells from the previous tier, that's your choice.
Like i said, im waiting to see if its worth wasting a rare on in the event SoE deem it over powering and change it, we didnt need the extra mitigation before they made it mitigation, cant see any reason or havent come up against any mobs where i have needed it as yet, providing i havent done much raid tanking since DoF, but Paladins dont get no uber 30 second mitigation buff like these and they tank raid material just fine and group material as well. We took a hit to our DPS, our you kidding me? Have you tried dual weilding any sort of decent dual weilds lately? Surely you guys have come to terms with SoE changing what we think is a positive change by now when they want and how they want to the way they see fit? Ill be holding off for a month or two to see how it goes, then i will upgrade it how i see fit, not because every other Berserker on the block is doing it.
Ummm Pin, let me put this in simple terms cause i really really can not be bothered with you to be honest. 700 mitigation = 16% mitigation. Chaos at Adept III is close to 600 to crushing and 454 to slashing and piercing but seeing as the mitigation number is not broken down into 3 parts like Avoidance is its safe to say that we dont know if the number values even change a thing except total overall mitigation % value. Wall of Wrath ( level 44 ) at Apprentice 1 is 361 mitigation. Wall of Rage ( level 55 ) at Adept III is 780 mitigation. Porcupine is a little over 1 min cast timer for over 1k mitigation, Templars have a ability to heal you and add another 700+ mitigation upon death at Adept III, Visions of Madness reguardless of being on a 30 min timer brings you back to life with 1k hp or so plus the Templars ability to cast a heal on you upon death for 1k or so as well plus the 700 mitigation from that, plus 780 from Wall of Rage. Now add into this equation ALL the buffs that now stack from lest say a Fury + Templar.......hmmmmm. Hell lets just remove the Fury and add the Templars buffs.........:smileyindifferent: With just Chaos adept III unbuffed solo is just 66.7%, with Wall of Wrath at Apprentice 1 thats right read this part clearly, at apprentice 1 no buffs solo, my mitigation is 71.8% with Templar buffs, maxed out, if i was to get my lvl 55 Wall of Rage upgraded too Adept III, i would easily max out mitigation solo. Put a Templar in a group with me, and i max out Mitigation just using Chaos at 78.7% ( well not so much maxed but close enough once a mage class joins the group that has a few hundred extra mitigation like Conjourers for example ). Templar has all Adept III buffs. Once thats about to wear off, Fury casts Porcupine, one thats about to wear off Wall of Rage, then restart the little cycle all over again. Hell it doesnt even have to be a Fury, it can be any other Preist class seeing as all buffs stack now providing its not two of the same class and i can easily max out my mitigation on a CONSTANT basis with out even using this ability. So it reduces attack speed every 1 and a half mins for 36 seconds, big deal, none of the other mitigation buffs do that ie: Chaos, Porcupine etc etc, in most groups you wouldnt even need this spell, and with our Berserk buffs we are realistically only losing 10%, Decreased attack rating? Sorry i must of missed that, care to fill us in on where it says that Pin, i see decrease movement speed which doesnt mean jack when in combat unless your trying to run away which it is easily swtiched off if thats the case, Decrease attackspeed, dont see nothing in there about decreasing attack ratings. As i said, we didnt need the buff before hand, we tanked just fine with out it and i havent needed it yet, i said needed it, but i have used it, and yes it makes a massive difference, its the type of difference that when put into the right use is very over powering. Might be worth getting it addresed now before every other tank class jumps down our throats and gets it nerfed into obvilion before people start blowing it out of proportion on how the ability acually works. Anyways, Pin will pull out the EQ2 tech hand book on this one no doubt, but ill still wait to see what happens with it. If anything, its a good back up tool in the event you have a boat load of adds, hit this plus Gibe, plus VoM, plus the buff from Templar, plus Porcupine, plus some Mages get buffs that add to mitigation now also and your all set, wouldnt even need this ability to be honest. There are smart players and lazy players. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 11-15-2005 03:01 AM
:smileyvery-happy: My numbers were out by what Pin? 10 at the most? and how much does 10 mitigation acually effect the overall mitigation %, 0.2%? By the way, notice i said close too 600 mitigation on Chaos seeing i wasnt logged in and couldnt remeber exact numbers. The rest of the information is entirely correct Pin, not sure why or how you get 700 mitigation = 12% but for me when i remove my BP and Legs at 55, i lose 15.9% mitigation. Watching it right now change as i remove the gear. Exactally right Pin, im still using Unflinching Will, im glad you picked that up which basically means i have yet to get Courageous Will Adept III and Wall of Rage Adept III. Now i hate to burst your bubble Pin, but why would i use Unflinching Will and Wall of Wrath at level 60 when there is upgrades to the spell which easily put me at 80% capped with a Templar in the group reguardless of the downtime on the spell itself, thats 60 seconds of maxed out mitigation which i noticed in this whole argument of yours you failed to mention that the Wall line is a 60 second recast timer meaning that yes, its not a 60 second cycle, its a 30 second cycle over a 60 second period. Meaning that in every 60 second period you are without the buffs for 30 seconds, not 60 like you try to state. Templar + Berserker + Fury is not duo? Glad you pointed that out, wait a sec, did i say it was a duo? Trying to twist things yet again Pin? It was a example at how easily it is to maintain maxed out Mitigation Pin and reguardless of the Fury recast timer on porcupine seeing that without the Porcupine its 30 second cycle as it is. If the fight looks Iffy cast VoM + Faithful Salvation and watch you be raised from the dead with max HP regen, 2k hp and maxed out mitigation, i wonder if any other tank class gets that type of survivability............:smileyindifferent: By the way Pin, none of your numbers line up with the numbers i get, for starters, Wall of Wrath 60 seconds reuse timer, not 90 seconds. Like i said above it works out to be a 30 second cycle, not 60. Chaos is 90 seconds. At lvl 60 With Adept III Rage + Choas Adept III + Courageous Will Adept III = 4700 mitigation / 77% mitigation Solo give or take a few percent dpeneding on quaility of gear. In this case it was a mix of Cobalt + T6 fabled which is easily obtainable without a raid as long as you are high enough level to do the group instances on a daily basis to farm the T6 fabled. A small word on attack rating, your factoring in the debuff from our Defensive stance when we are talking about the Wall line, besides, when fighting Orange mobs it doesnt matter what you can buff your skills too, your still going to miss them alot due to them being desinged that way with LU#13, i tested this on mobs that were one level above yellow in Pillars with Unbridled Fury Adept III going, i cant even kill them and had to run them off. Yellow cons NP, killed them not a problem, these are the solo Sabertooths with no arrows down or up. By the way i was lvl 54 when i attempted that. Thing i find most interesting about all this Pin is, you class using Defensive stance and not being able to use Unbridled Fury two types of decreasements when the both dont even stack, so realistically its ethier a increase or a decrease, not two decreasements. For the record Pin, Guardians got the same upgrade to their Wall line also, not real sure how you think this put us on par with Guardians when they also recieved the same upgrade............:smileyindifferent: Oh since you like to derail stuff, here you forgot about some buffs, what about subdued rage, there is another decreasement. Anyway Pin, your always 100% correct no matter what people put on the table for you, so what ever man, ill keep on waiting for a month or so, im not going anywhere and like i said, i didnt need this buff to tank before the changes, and i havent needed it yet, the Berserkers we have that MT for our raids didnt need this buff to tank raid material before the changes and they hardly even use it now, the only reason i see it useful for is agro generation when you get a massive boat load of adds to help Gibe seeing as the movement speed is acually a area of effect. How many fights do you fight that have a boat load of unlinked encounters now days?
With all due respect, Guardians can achieve higher self Mit, and sustained, than Zerks, considering our aggro mamangement is shocking compared to Pallies and Guards (oh lord, I'd trade my left nut for an aggro drain), I dont see how being able to burst buff our mit is an issue, I raid tank a lot and I can tell you for the 45 odd seconds you have no burst buff avaialble you feel a lot of pain, and if you don't have a fury popping Porcupine up on you your gonna get spanked and hard (try raiding without TeamSpeak and co ordinating buffs, yer right). I feel that the current round of changes is a step in the right direction, we have been defined as a tank, pure and simple, that being the case we need more tank like ablities, cry nerf or over power all you like but I've been a Zerk since the 9th of Novenber and seen our class change many times, I have never been a whinger nor do I have anything negative to say about my class because I like being a Zerk, if you hate these changes go roll a Bruiser and try to tank a raid mob thats level 67, one shot and down goes the Brawler barr none. We are a hybrid class guys, you can't have your cake and eat it too... And for a long time we ate everyones cake
Templar + Berserker + Fury is not duo? Glad you pointed that out, wait a sec, did i say it was a duo? As you claimed you could be at capped mitigation constantly as a duo, then stated you required the 3 people... Again your reading comprehension ability fails you Pin, never said it was a duo and i explained why i mentioned the Fury which you failed to copy / paste in there as well. I think his reading comprehension is fine, since you said this towards the start of the thread: I'm waiting to see what happens to this CA before i blow a Rare in it, its way more powerful then intended i believe seeing i can get 71.8% solo and maxed out at 80% duo on a constant basis toggling between Chaos and just Wall of Wrath at Apprentice I ( level 41 CA.) and i dont even have the lvl 54 one made up yet which is why im waiting to see what they do to it to see if the change they do eventually make to it is worthy of a rare.
Some excellent points Tuddar, one question though. When i run my numbers through that same system you suggested for raw mitigation value, im getting a 0.5614 for example for the 3088/5500 one, same for 700/5500 = 0.1272, so how are you sure that its giving you a true raw base value with no mitigation bonus based on level?
