Upcoming Necro NERF -- Test Update 19a -- Dumbfire pets back to taking AoE dmg

This is the wrong nerf. I can see that the intention might have been simply to scale back the damage from our dumbfires a bit. But the way this has been done specifically reduces the effectiveness of summoners on raids, hardly at all anywhere else. I don't understand the wish to penalize raiders but not casual players.

Just to play Devils Advocate - maybe raid situations were the only places they saw up overpowered, in long fights where power pools can be drained and power effeciency is key. Perhaps they felt the power/dps ratio on the dumbfires were too high when they were up for thier full duration in raids.
I know if I die on a raid, the first thing I cast when I get back up is my dumbfires, so they can start chomping at mobs while I get a new pet out to drain for power to get back into the fray.

Excellent analysis! Thanks for the graph (ironically the Necro nerfs are the result of too accurate / widespread necro parse's, but I digress)

Thats what I was saying in my post... AT BEST (even if you 'joust' perfectly) you will end up loosing 50% of the DPS you currently get from Dumbfirepets.

For 'average' joe 6-pack, it will be more like 75% of your dumbfire DPS, since there is a 30s timer on their AoE cast, and a 15s casting timer on the pets.... you ONLY loose 50% if you happen to predict their AoE perfectly and FINISH casting just after he casts (and not START casting after he casts the AoE)

Anyway, the worst part is that SO MANY Necros took the dogs for lvl 52 training spell, so we are getting a pretty big nerf to a very late master 2 level spell, MAINLY against raid mobs, which was supposed to be our specialty.

Talk about a triple ouch.





Message Edited by Gargamel on 01-13-200602:40 PM

Actually I'm currently thinking its a result of a 'new feature' and subsequent 'bug'.
Specifically... mobs that use 'dumbfire' pets (continuing with the quasi-dumbfire pets they gave most classes)

I'm betting they could not figure a way to flag those to take AoE dmg, while leaving the summoner pets as needing to be specifically targeted.

It would be so typically SoE to just remove the 'immunity' from everything as a 'fix'.

All conjecture of course.... but as far as 'too good in raids', its been stated since BEFORE release that was a class defining characteristic. Everything shows we are a weaker class than other DPS roles with lower lvl mobs (green/blue), or large groups where the Warlock rules. We were supposed to be masters of power, with higher regen and lich and sphiphon and all. Always talking about how are class defiing was better in long raid fights where we had more power to spend and more time for our single target DoTs and pets to reach their full potential. Potential that is more or less 'wasted' on the wrong type of fight.

Anyway, just my 2c why I don't think that is the original cause of all this.



Message Edited by Gargamel on 01-13-200602:37 PM

This is why I play World of Warcraft now most of the time

Totally agree with the concerns. I have no idea what percentage of my damage is down to pets, only in the late 30's myself. Still serious cause for worry.

Eirgorn - mind if I ask what parser that is, or how you put that spreadsheet together? I've been shopping around, and although I've tried EQCompanion (0.798), it won't run the log file without numerous errors.

Sure, its the Advanced Combat Tracker found here: http://home.maine.rr.com/eqaditu/ACT/
I was using EQC up until a couple weeks ago when I started using ACT and haven't looked back since. It is excellent for both real time and off line parsing complete with mob resists and pretty charts!

first the elimination of the ward.
then the pet mitagation.
then the lich nerf.
then the dumbfire pets made weaker.

each time we say "its just a small thing"

but it all adds up....

little by little......

Our dumbfire pets so far as I could see they do near zero dps on most lv 65(orange com) mobs on raids when normal pets ad3 can hit mobs(unless some oen is immune to some kind damage that pet can do) when my master I swarm pets gets full resists.
I will give you an exemple, that queen named at SC raid, she is real weak to noxious damage, my pet normal ad3 scout pet can do hell a lot dps on her(until she aoes again in liek 25 secs and bye bye pet ,eh) but for some reason the dogs/stench are 100pct resisted.
My point is with this post, if they will make these dumbfire pets on the target of named mob s AoEs then I want at last my stench of the grave to be a normal dot as it was before DoF expansion, it was our BEST dot(ok ok, it was single target and stench can aoe dps).
I belive that many ppl complains about dumbfire pets raise a lot lag on raid encounter mobs and making those pets vunerable to aoe would reduce lag but I belive it is still not the solution to fix this .If they THINK these pets are THAT high dps to be nefred then agai ncheck the dps they do on orange com fights !!
Why not go nerf rangers that are way doing a lot more dps the all the mages (I can barely do on every fight more dps then a ranger with uber gear for just a few fights on raids).
Yah nerf ranger/assassin and upgrade sorcerors and leave the summoners alone.
Anyways to end my post I would like to say that at the end we will get used to the changes but revamp on spells to change dps is coming almost every month now, Come on, put an end on this !

Allowen
necromancer of MM server
Lords of the triple moons guild

BQ is crush immune. Dogs are doing 100% crush damage. So simple.

Stench hits for disease.... It only has problems on disease immune mobs.

Sorry if I did not make myself clear with my previous post , I meant to say that on orange mobs lv 65+ my dumbfire pets dont do a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit on mobs(does not matter if mob is weak to WAHT EVER ATTACK), it is all miss attacks and resists, even when mob is weak to noxious and so I hit with spells np and so my normal pets the swarm pets still get resists and mine are master I lv .

But if you did not notice 100pct resists of your swarm pets on nameds and common mobs on raids orange com plus then check it agai nand you will see.
I sent soem bug reports a long time ago and again but still not fixed and so other necros I know that noticed the same problem and sent feedback/bug reports.

Allowen
necromancer of MM server
Lords of the triple moons guild

100% resists? ...... man what the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are u talking about..... ive never had any resist problems with swarm pets and orange epic mobs.....

What I "blame" for this is SOE's lack of creativity in making raid encounters challenging. Substantially the only way they seem to be able to make raids hard these days is by putting aoe's on epic encounters. On the one hand, it's an easily-tuneable attribute of the encounter. Want to make the encounter harder? Up the total aoe damage. Want to make it easier -- lower the damage. When a damage-dealing entity is not affected by the aoe's, said tuning does not affect them. If my theory is correct, brigands better watch their backs.

100% resists? On orange? 65lvl+ you mean? Would I surprise you If i tell that my swarm pets have same miss rate on orange mobs (even 68lvl) as all other melee classes? They doing 0 damage ONLY on immune mobs. And please, dont force me to post parse results here.

Simple logic for all you necros out there,

The devs will have two options:
A) Allow dumbfire pets of any class be immune to AOE damage from foes, but restrict the pets by not allowing them the group's beneficial buffs/heals
- or -
B) Allow dumbire pets to be targeted by AOE damage from foes, and allow group's beneficial buffs/heals to effect pets (including pet buffs)
- but never -
C) Allow dumbire pets to be targeted by AOE damage from foes, but not allow group's beneficial buffs/heals to effect pets (this is a double standerd, pets can not recive the negative effects ment for the group w/out being able to recieve the possitive effects ment for the group)

If they choose option B, they could change the pet defensive stance to provide one free Stoneskin every 30 seconds, and this would effect all of your pets, so your dumbfire pets could recive a "free hit" from an AOE attack every 30 seconds, but deal less damage since they also undergo the defensive stance's penalties.
I dont mind if dumbfire pets can be killed by AOE, so long as we have a means of protecting them, and if the group then has the ability to increase their offensive and defense though buffs. Also, if our pet heal healed ALL of our pets (and if the pet-stoneskin buff conjurors recive also effected all minons), this change would be easier to bare.

Currently on test they are hitable by AEs but don't receive group buffs....

Then this is a travesty on logic...
LU19b better enable them to receive group buffs or make them immune to AOE damage.
I’m not going to play a game with double standards...
Ether they are pets and there for recive aoe damage and group beneficial spells or they are dots, curable but not able to be killed via indirect AOE attacks.
The devs CAN NOT make them subjected to AOE w/out giving us the ability to bloister our pets with group buffs.
Simple logic, they are my minon and get my buffs as well as my groups, or they are my uncontrolable damage tools that do not recive my help, nor are hindered by mobs that are not directly focusing on them.

They can, Eyes_of_Truth. Please keep in mind: They're amateures, and all of them.

Wouldn't matter so much if they didn't transfer hate to you.