Hello Troubadors! We have finally completed the first draft of our Troubador revamp and would like to get your feedback on these ideas. Our primary goal is to give Troubadors more options during combat that can have a clear effect on the fight. Viewed individually, some of the changes may be considered minor, but we hope all these small and moderate changes will add up to a much more dynamic and interesting class. Countersong no longer has an immunity timer. It now lasts for 12 seconds, does not dispel when an ability is used and reduces the target's AE Auto Attack Chance by up to 100% as well as ability damage. We really like the potential Countersong has to make an obvious difference in group and raid content, and we're trying yet another implementation to see if it can reach that potential more often. One note: Potency is currently calculated at the beginning of the cast, so if you wait until you see a casting bar to use Countersong, it will not take effect on that ability. Vexing Verses now also deals minor damage and reduces the target's casting speed by up to 32%. Breathtaking Bellow can no longer be resisted. Its radius has been increased to 15 meters. Demoralizing Processional now also reduces the target encounter's primary attributes in addition to its offensive skills. Enhance: Demoralizing Processional now also improves the attribute reduction. We made some minor changes here so that these abilities have more effect. It is difficult to tell exactly how much effect attribute debuffs have, but at least now Demoralizing Processional will always make some difference. Sandra's Deafening Strike now restores some of the power it drained to the Troubador. Tap Essence now affects the encounter and the group. The damage have been reduced. Painful Lamentations has had its damage increased. Thunderous Overture is now a PBAoE that affects up to 8 targets. The reuse has been increased to 10 seconds. Perfect Shrill has had its damage increased. We wanted to give the class a little more control over power as well as obviously mixing in new encounter and area of effect abilities. Rather than going over all the numbers here, let's wait until they make it to test and see how they play out there. Some individual spells are going to do less DPS in some situations, but others were buffed to more than compensate. Enhance: Rejuvenating Celebration now also improves the maximum health granted by Rejuvenating Celebration. Raxxyl's Rousing Tune now also improves agility. Jester's Cap no longer has an immunity timer. Some minor buff changes. More control with Jester's Cap instead of having immunity timers dictate the target. Demoralization is now "Abhorrent Verse." Abhorrent Verse transfers 50% of the threat from the Troubador's group to the target for a short time. This does not transfer threat from fighters. Hopefully this new advancement will give you another way to make a definite impact on the group or raid, should you choose to pick it up.
finally, a blue aoe. countersong change looks nice, cant really comment on the rest without seeing numbers on test. Breathtaking Bellow could use some damage, imo, as its still not worth casting even if its unresistable
Xelgad wrote: I presume this isn't affected by the 50% hate transferral cap (Abhorrent Verse as described affords 300% hate transferral) and that the target is "raid friend"? If so, sounds like a nice bit of extra utility.
Xelgad wrote: Since you can't use Countersong against an AE that is already being cast and AE timers often fluctuate more than 12 sec either way, the short duration makes it rather hard to get anything useful out of the ability on raids. I think turning Countersong into a small (say, 5% - 10%) but maintainable Potency debuff would be much better.
Nice changes for a start. However going to have to seriously /hate all over PBAoE if its troub only since every "bard" in general has been asking for blue AEs since god knows how long. Give them SDA built into a CA, similar to how Rhythm blade currently works.
It sounds like some really good stuff in theory. Will have to see how it all plays out in action. Hopefully it'll even get me wanting to play my troub again! The blue AoE and the change to JCap are pure win!
JCap immunity removal is dumb. I believe it's there so troubs don't pick their two favorite targets and continually cast it on them. Now instead of it being rotated around 8 targets, it'll be locked on two. And those two are like to be scouts, because mages are all capped on cast/recovery/reuse, so I can basically say bye to ever seeing it as a mage. Raxxyl's change is also meh, but I can see the reasoning since mage groups usually include a scout dps now. I'd say to balance it out you should drop the AGI amount on their self buff to the same amount that dirges get. Also, to the guy saying AOEs aren't static, only two (three) T9 raid mobs I can recall that have AOEs that aren't on static timers and speed up the longer you fight. Mosassus in Underfoot Depths and the spider (both modes) in Sullon's Spire.
Can you make Chaos Anthem debuff something other than WIS? STA would be AWESOME. The only time that's any good is if you are fighting a healer mob. How often does that happen?
If you are going to remove the jcap immunity timer, why not just cut the abilities in half...25 reuse, 7.5 cast speed, 7.5 recovery, 5 CB...and make it a static group buff.
I never really have any power issues unless the mob has a power drain ability. What would be really nice, Engergizing Balad groupwide instead of adding a power restoration to Sandra's Deafening Strike. Dirges get a groupwide rez, so why not?
Karnos@Guk wrote: I one point i thought certain abilities could overcap and the cap for hate transfers was 50% flat. But now I wonder if the 50% transfer cap only means 50% transfer cap PER PERSON.
Trynt wrote: I understand it can be used raidwide, but this will change that. It removes the silliness of removing the immunity. If you remove the timer, it will just be two people getting it anyway. Why not just give it to the group and call it a day?
cool changes so far but could you give troubs some sort of melee skill/accuracy buff? or maybe make them a totaly range class by giving them some sort of bonus for using a bow like rangers get, of course on a smaller scale. i think making dirge melee with all the scouts/tanks and troubs ranged with all the mages would work. one last thing.. is there anyway you could come up with a way to make troubadors better equiped for 6 man group buffing? i mean they do a good job of buffing the mages but their tank buffs are pretty useless compared to dirges. i think making dirge and troub tank buffs equal but different would be cool, i see you're tying to do that with the hate transfer but i think there's room a another one or two. also the accuracy buff i mention should be for the troub only not the group members since that would be taking away from the dirges role. ps. don't EVER give dirges an AOE! just for the lulz..
why is removing the immunity silly? every one is rocking enough reuse to pretty much render the spell almost useless other then the 10% cb and recovery(for some classes). yes classes with 85%+ reuse should not take priority over classes with 30% reuse, it would be silly.
tfetterman wrote: Because then you would be taking away another "thing to do" during groups/raids for Troubadors. The problem with Bards is, they're getting to be dull to play. They have very little to actually do during a group/raid. It's mostly buff/debuff, then DPS. There isn't really anything "heroic" or critical that bards get to do DURING a group/raid that influences the success of the group/raid. Bards should be instrumental (pun intended) in how the fight is going, with some crazy abilities to turn the tide. Instead they've become a DPS scout class with a few buffs/debuffs. I suggested in another thread some cool ideas that could be done for bards (and I've added a few): Grant another player a special ability (heal, taunt, de-taunt, 15% Crit/Crit Mit buff, Intercept-like ability) Swap agro with the tank (would then need to give troubs a rescue-like ability) Swap health between the bard and a groupmate. Reduce the damage of the next AoE by 30% Extend the range of a groupmate's weapons for a short time Change the damage output type of a groupmate to spell damage, elemental, noxious, or melee damage There are so many possible things that could be done that wouldn't be overpowered yet would make bards more interesting, and valuable to certain types of tanks, healers, etc. And so you don't think I am talking out of my {donkey}, I have a 90 dirge that I have done *some* grouping/raiding with.
