Bah why am I even debating this Troll, oh yeah because he occludes the facts with retoric like Slick Willie. :roll: causing the fiction to be believed as fact.
[p]Is he a Troll? or just better at playing a monk than you? I have no problems having a monk as my groups MT....."want a fast as possible instance clear?" ------> get a brawler or zerker to MT. Generally because offensive tanks they play that way (certainly the experience i get when using my swashie)!! Offensive melee classes appreciate that mentality and get this if you do have a swashie in group its the offensive tanks that benefit MOST from his debuffs! That plus a master 1 hate transfer ----- AoE agro control solved. IMHO a monk benefits way more than a guard from having a 6 man swashie in group.[/p][p]Each situation is different - each class mix is different ---> some better, some worse. Now quit the whinning before my migraine gets worse! Suggest sensible minor improvements rather than ridiculous changes, we ARE NOT broken. Personally i'm angling for a group Avoidance buff and faster timer on an AoE taunt. [/p]
[p]Troll because he is intentionlally trying to start and argument, or at the very least how it appears to be, especially with elitist Phrases like "Roll a Diffrent Class" instead of asking for my current classs to be brought up to par. It seems that a lot of plate tanks feel threatened if we want to join them as Tanks.[/p][p]You are a rarity then, and Berzerkers have the edge on DPS and avoidance as well as the Mit when Avoidance fails. You can't have six swashies in the same group as a Monk, five maybe but you still need a healer and an Enchanter to keep it up.[/p][p]BTW, I have, in several Threads, and the changes I and many others have advocated have not been overpowering. [/p][p]As for your Migrain take Excedrine that does wonders for me. [/p]
[p]Haha, a troll? You mean my point of view is different from yours? You mean that just because I don't want to join the group of moaning little spoilt kids that want their class to be the best at everything. You think that makes me a troll? I think not.[/p][p]What you people, in your little greed infested fury for every buff in the game, fail to acknowledge is that devs CAN'T just give a class that extra avoidance buff, or that extra 500 hps becasue it directly affects the abilities and usefulness of other classes in the game.[/p][p]If a brawler could tank every single raid mob then why would anyone need a guardian for or a zerker? If we could out DPS scouts then what would we need a swashie for?[/p][p]Monks CAN tank, monks CAN DPS, monks HAVE utility. If you don't know how to use them then it's your fault not the games.[/p][p]Yes we need brought in to line with bruisers a bit but whining about wanting to be able to be raid tanks and be uber DPSers "at the same time" is just pathetically childish. Hundreds of posts moaning about how bad we are, shocking![/p][p]One other thing posted a couple of threads up about "so many people on here seeking changes". I can assure you there are thousands and countless more just playing the class and enjoying it that are on here ******** and moaning about how pathetic THEY ARE at playing the class.[/p]
I'm sorry, but when the game came out the rangers weren't meant to be a dps class either. Not like they are now anyway.
I'm pretty sure some of the other Monks have their hard numbers to back up their claims why don't you gather yours as well and then they and you can compare notes.
It is not your view is different, it is because you are throwing stuff from your back bottom. None should take you seriously.
You pull this one from the same book as the "you shoulda rolled a warrior if you wanted to tank epics"? Why exactly would people not want to use guardians or zerkers anymore if brawlers could? You realize that this old "retort" was based around the fact that Brawlers did more DPS than the other Fighters... the full line was "Why use another tank when the Brawler could tank it and do more DPS". This is no longer the case, and this tired old line is just as worthless as an argument. You might want to research a little before parroting things like this. When the game was first in beta, Heroic Opportunities were going to have a much larger effect in combat, and scout were supposed to have an integral part of it. In the last month of Beta, they decided to can the complex levels of it, dumbed it down to what it is now, and made scouts "melee" DPS. Predators have always been DPS, both Assassin and Ranger. Like all classes in this game, their level of power has gone down and up and down again as things were added, fixed, and nerfed. Before the big Proc nerf, Rangers were the highest DPS potential in the game, and now they float around the same level as the other high DPS oriented classes. But really, right from the day the game became Live, Rangers have been a DPS class. Brawlers on the other hand were designed from the beginning as Tanks, if tanks of a different method. The higher DPS was their way of holding aggro, and this fluctuated just like the DPS of Rangers and every other class. When KoS rolled around, and Taunts became more and more useless in keeping aggro... ALL Fighters obtained a boost to DPS to hold aggro. The idea that "Brawlers used DPS to hold aggro, so they have less taunts", is from an era before everyone started doing it. I'm repeating Gaige here, but all the changes made to the Brawler class have been towards making them a Tank class... with nerfing the overabundance of DPS back when we were too close to the DPS classes.. to giving and improving the Deflection score to make Brawlers "the avoidance tank". Only recently have Brawlers lagged behind. No, we haven't had a role change... no major bonuses to DPS to make us a DPS option eschewing all Tank benefits... but neither have we had the changes needed to keep us up with the Tanking requirements. A major change was made to how Skills acted in combat. This reduced the effectiveness of our Taunt Proc compared to before, and yet nothing was changed to improve it or circumvent this issue. A major change was made to how avoidance works against epics, called for by most avoidance tanks for a long time, and Brawlers are not given the lion's share of avoidance despite it being the primary way they tank. Two major changes to the game, and Brawlers are left behind. This isn't a change in role after over 2 years of gameplay. This is simply a neglect in development. Either they still haven't figured out what they intend to do, or they simply haven't afforded the time to concentrate on it. Or maybe the changes needed involve a larger change to the game they are still working on. And I challenge anyone to call me a whiner or a moaner. I'm approaching this very logically, with the experience of playing the class archetype since the game's inception. I'm not complaining, or demanding overly absurd bonuses, or archetypal changes. I enjoy playing my class, and I still do what I can with it. However, I'm not about to sit there and not say anything when I see an illogical issue with the game.
[p]I was going to sit here and reply to all the points individually but quite frankly I can't be bothered. It's a pointless exercise anyway because obviously I'm playing a different game from you lot.[/p][p]I always get groups.[/p][p]I find my monk fun to play.[/p][p]I can be in the top 5 on any DPS list on any raid.[/p][p]I can tank epic mobs in raids.[/p][p]I can tank any instance easily.[/p][p]I don't die on the first AoE.[/p][p]I can get fabled gear and masters easily becasue I can farm for cash and loot.[/p][p]I can etc etc etc[/p][p]So I'll leave you all to your little group of whining and moaning. No doubt you can all group together and talk about how you driven another player who might give positive feed back about the monk from the official boards. Sad thing is you all actually believe the nonsense you write! Stop whining and maybe the devs might listen to you. Good luck with that one.[/p]
You also believe the nonsense you write. Exept that you haven't backed your writings with any kind of comparable facts.
[p]Sigh, I don't need to come on here and spout numbers about DPS or what I can tank and can't tank. I actually go in the game and play it and have fun doing it. If I try something and it doesn't work I'll find another way of doing it?[/p][p]Does it annoy me that wizards at level 65 can solo The Carnovingion in Bonemire while I can't? No it doesn't becasue I can solo most of the nameds in SoS in 45 minutes to an hour.[/p][p]Does it worry me that I will never ever be able to replace a zerk or guardian on a raid? Of course it doesn't because at no time ever did I expect to.[/p][p]Does it worry me that a swashie can do 400 more DPS than me? Of course it doesn't because I never expected to beat a swaashie in DPS.[/p][p]The fact that at times and in certain situations I can tank what zerks tank, I can do the same DPS as a swashie is great. It's a challenge to me to get as close to these other classes as I can.[/p][p]So you go back to your little number calculator and compare monks tanking to zerks tanking and monks DPS to swashies DPS while you convieniently forget the good stuff about a monk. While you are doing that I'll go play the game, get some XP, have some fun, maybe loot some good stuff and get better at playing my monk.[/p][p]I bet you any money if you did get all these things you want you would find something else to moan about. Envy is a terrible affliction![/p]
Well now, if you are so happy with the class, then why are you doing your best(?) to prevent any good changes for it? Your image about the monk is not The Only Right one, when I look at the game as whole, I am fully expecting to out-DPS a swashy on a raid. Why? Because while my monk is only there for DPS, the swashy is there for hate buff, he will be debuffing the mob AND giving the group AE avoidance every now and then. If you dont see anything wrong when the swashy also beats brawlers in DPS, well then you are really blind or purposely ignoring the imbalance. Now I am 100% certain that if you also had a 70/100 swashy or brigand, there would be no good raidleader that would prefer the monk over the rogue. Also since you have a zerker, the said raidleader would not care which one you brought to the raid if they already had MT and OT. That is what is wrong with the picture.
[p]What "hard facts" do you want exactly? I will never compare my monk to any other class other than a bruiser. So I have no idea what nonsense you want me to post here that would satisfy your little moans.[/p][p]I have said what I needed to say. My lowest dps parse is about 800 my highest was 2100. I have tanked named mobs in all KoS zones, I can tank trash no problem whatsover. I have tanked every instnace at least once. Everything else I need to say I have said about the class. I never have an issue getting a group or a raid and get told I'm pretty slick at being a monk 8). What do you want me to say, I don't see "the problems" you and your little team of unhappy moaners seem to have.[/p][p]Incidentally they aren't "put downs", I'm jsut saying it like it is.[/p]
Well, if you dont ever compare your monk to any other class than a bruiser, then you really cant have any idea how good monks really are in the game. What you perceive as 'good' is a relative term and in comparison, any other melee class would be 'great' in your scale. But you would never know since you dont want to compare. Maybe it is a good idea for you not to, actual comparison might make you see the reality.
[p]No. I just don't feel the need to compare it, I have no "self worth" issues. I like the class, I see no "major" problems with it and I'm not greedy for everything that every other class has. That's the difference between you and I, I rolled a monk knowing what a monk is, I didn't roll one expecting it to be anything else.[/p][p]In fact let me tell you exactly why I rolled and levelled a monk to a 70/100 raider and switched it to my main.[/p][p]I was MT for a raiding guild with my zerker when the claymore line came out. I obviously started doing it like all good fighters should but the SoS part really annoyed the crap out of me. So I solicited the help on my 70 monk friend who proceeded to train me through the entire SoS claymore questline and PoA quest line. Tanking mobs as well as I could, FD training to far ends of the zone, pulling mobs from difficult pull spots using his skills as a monk.[/p][p]I was sick to my stomach that this monk could do all these great things and still tank as well or nearly as well as my raiding zerker. So I rolled a monk, levelled it, kitted it out and switched it to my main and I have never regretted doing that once! Not one single time![/p]
Well, that is your choice then. If you are so happy, then stay out of these discussions. You are really not bringing anything to the table here since you have zero facts to back you up. You perceive monks as good class because you dont know anything better, good for you. Your image however is flawed by the fact that you dont see the other classes performance. And it has been said too many times already, monks are good solo class. There are better still, but a monk can solo quests most classes cant. But the problems of monks are not in soloing nor in heroic content. Again something that has been said several times but you have chosen to ignore it since you are repeating your mantra about soloing and heroics. Maybe you want to ignore it because you really dont have any input to the matter because you know we are worth crap in raids. But I am not going to ignore it, especially not because someone who flat out refuses to look at the classes as whole says we are fine. As it seems, I can do better DPS on raids than you and I still have hard time to warrant a spot on raids. You see many people in my guild has also healer alt. Guess who is the first to go in healing duty in case we dont have enough for a raid? No, not the ones with scouts. No, not the ones with plate tanks either. And definately not the mages.
[p]Things just don't add up with your posts, Aonach. I have a 70/100 Berserker, Monk & Dirge and I'm astounded that you think the way you do. You mention use of FD in HoS and DT - tbh, these zones are KoS, easy and quite frankly backward - any guild that relies on FD in these zones should seriously consider not raiding at all.[/p][p]My monk was my main, but although I found him fun to play he just doesn't stack up raidwise. My berserker can tank better (better aggro control & survivability) and DPS better. A berserker also enhances the raid dps far more than a monk with berserk and +STR group buffs. Alas, my Dirge is now my main as the guild needs one for a few months, then I can go back to my berserker being my main.[/p][p]This is interesting though:[/p][p]"That's the difference between you and I, I rolled a monk knowing what a monk is, I didn't roll one expecting it to be anything else."[/p][p]It seems that unlike yourself, other monks on this forum actually want the class to be fairly compared to other peer classes. You rolled your monk in August last year because you were so inspired by FD and training through zones - if this is what you think "a monk is" you should control youself and not post in the monk forums.[/p][p]I would highly recommend that you actually read through the vast quantity of valid points made in the monk forums regarding issues monks have before posting ill founded trash.[/p]
